did data really die - Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) Discussion

[–] jaystarstar 13 years ago

Data died. The final scene shows B4 acting simple-minded -- he will need a long education.

================

4) You ever seen Superman $#$# his pants? Case closed.

reply

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bjlevine 13 years ago

Yeah, but not before he spent some time on the Genesis planet.

hÄbinngTfoÜvlewwuthtHewkolfRïginkeeyvoeRd...

reply

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rldalton 12 years ago

> What a twist it would be if it's revealed that Data and Geordi programmed B4 > to shoot out to the Scimitar and save Captain Picard.

Yeah, and then Data only acted like B4 to convince everyone that Data had died...you know, sort of a practical joke. I'd really LOVE to see the payoff scene for THAT!

reply

[–] blackswan50 12 years ago

lmao that would be awesome

reply

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Observer_2020 12 years ago

Well, practical jokes ARE part of being human, which is what Data sought for all these years.

reply

[–] TeOfLeDiKi 12 years ago

Too bad the Genesis planet blew itself up.

According to the news articles at the time, Brent Spiner actually lobbied to have Data die, because he felt that he was starting to get too old to convincingly pull off the "ageless" part of Data's physical appearance.

In an interview on trekmovie.com, this Q&A was part of it:

And when Spiner was asked if he thought Data could come back he said:

I don’t think that could happen. Look at me. I am a shockingly older gentleman. I don’t see that I could wear that makeup anymore. I think that would look really stupid. I love the character and I wish I started it much younger, but I was already in my mid sixties when I started [joke]. I just don’t think I could get away with it. Yeah they could CGI it, but why not just CGI the whole character and forget about me.

Mystère . . . et boules de gomme . . .

reply

[–] magic8ball2112 13 years ago

Data got blown up good.
That his engrams, etc. were downloaded into B4 as a safeguard should anything to Data, was the blatantly obvious hint that something was going to happen to Data before the movie ended. Its right up there w/ being a 'redshirt' in the Star Trek Universe.

reply

[–] SpaceMountainMike 9 years ago

That his engrams, etc. were downloaded into B4 as a safeguard should anything to Data, was the blatantly obvious hint that something was going to happen to Data before the movie ended

Somewhat reminiscent of Spock melding with Bones at the end of Star Trek 2: Wrath Of Khan.

_______________

My iMDB profile http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4297325/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

reply

[–] NewDivide1701 13 years ago

Data was the one who was destroyed, while his memory engrams are emerging within B-4.

reply

[–] Leveticus 12 years ago

Yes, Data "died", but he returns in B4's body.

reply

[–] StrontiumAE 12 years ago

... which invalidated any emotional impact his death had. Pointless.

Review AE http://www.reviewae.blogspot.com & http://ireview-ae.blogspot.com

reply

[–] bjlevine 12 years ago

Yeah, you wouldn't catch them doing that with TOS crew.

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

reply

[–] StrontiumAE 12 years ago

At least with Spock, he was bought back a whole movie later. It was well done. Here, its like the moment they get back to Earth, B4 starts becoming Data.

Review AE http://www.reviewae.blogspot.com & http://ireview-ae.blogspot.com

reply

[–] bjlevine 12 years ago

I'm wondering if, as with TWOK, they previewed it to test audiences who hated Data's death, and then added in the B4 scene.

Generally speaking, I hate when they kill of a character tragically and then just whip them back to life. Worst ever was Lois Lane in Superman the Move. Incredibly tragic ending, and then he just magically brings her back to life. Either commit or don't do it.

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

reply

[–] wil_god 10 years ago

I like to think of B-4 as an offspring of Data, since he kind of passed his memory to him

reply

[–] PatrickS77 10 years ago

"... which invalidated any emotional impact his death had. Pointless. "

No. It did not. Data was destroyed. B4 is it's on entity. There was just a small comfort that part of Data, his memories, would "live" on in B4. But the machine, that was Data, does not exist anymore. If you clone your dead pet, like in the "6th day" movie, you have another creature that looks the same and may act the same, but your pet is still dead. Same with Data.

reply

[–] JamesMcFly 10 years ago

I agree with your analogy of cloning a pet: it looks, acts and "appears" to be your pet, but it IS NOT and will never be. That pet is dead and its soul is gone.

But, Data is a computer program in a machine: He can live on. He just needs a new machine. Part of me likes to think Data died and He had a great send off, but another part of me likes to think he lived on, in B4. Maybe B4 acting child like at the end was a limitation in B4's existing programming that Data will have to work through or around? Who knows?

I know they did a official tie-in comic to the ST 09 film that involved The TNG crew. Maybe that explains Data/B4?

reply

[–] joegerardi-1 12 years ago

No, Data did NOT die...

As an android, he was never actually "alive," so there's no way he could have died.

However, I think he really screwed up his "fully functional" parts...

..Joe

reply

[–] mdelvecchio 11 years ago

star fleet ruled he was a sentient being, and yes, alive. just like some other artificial life forms discovered in TNG.

reply

[–] Geek_XX 8 years ago

Picard is going to come down and bitch slap you for saying that.

Watch Measure of a Man again and tell us whether Data is still "Not Alive".

reply

[–] Mattfinbell 12 years ago

How is data dead and so Lore is alive and well how did they get him to be nice and how is there another android data

reply

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] !!!deleted!!! (12526472) 9 years ago

I have to say the Data's death get-out clause using B4 was the single most annoying thing in this movie for me. They tried to disguise it as such by integrating his memory/body duplication into the story right at the beginning, but that just didn't wash with me. If it's true that Brent Spiner wanted to be written out of it, fair enough, but don't ruin the gravitas of the moment by shoving in a way to bring him back, if needed, especially not after having already done the exact same thing with Spock in TWOK/TSFS.

Quite surprisingly bad writing, even compared to the other faults in this film. Definitely the worst of the TNG movies, I'm not saying it was absolute *beep* but it certainly didn't do the franchise any favours.

reply

[–] shoopies 9 years ago

No surprise Spiner was one of the writers of this script. B4 was annoying as hell. Data should not have died . It is not like another Start Trek The Next Generation movie would be made. The actors of all aged are tired of it. So what was Brent worried about ?

reply

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] SpaceMountainMike 9 years ago

Who or what made B4, anyway? And how and why?

_______________

My iMDB profile http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4297325/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

reply

[–] wkdst1 8 years ago

B4 was created before Data and Lore by Dr Noonien Soong

reply