Is there something I'm missing about Jess? - Gilmore Girls (2000) Discussion

[–] ellebells2000 8 years ago

The only thing I can´t understand is how Rory was able to keep her hands away . I mean, they should have slept together . It is not realistic to have such a handsome boyfriend without getting a little snack , right ?

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[–] ChatAndCut 8 years ago

Hear hear sister

http://66.media.tumblr.com/d49cc048618b146e904334095f365a9d/tumblr_inline_miksrnz4OK1qz4rgp.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/Pdm4PNgrJ0wmY/giphy.gif

https://67.media.tumblr.com/626301c8a88917cce267c231bb84f795/tumblr_n4oqh6ABno1ssvjtqo1_250.gif

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[–] ellebells2000 8 years ago

Are you trying to kill me with those gorgeous eyes and that sexy smile

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[–] kathykato 8 years ago

I don't find him physically attractive, but he isn't unattractive, either--he's average. He's too skinny for my preference in male physique- he has the tiniest waist on a teenaged boy I've ever seen. Having said that, I do agree that beauty, except for the absolute five percent of beautiful people in the world, is subjective. How one feels about a person factors into how attractive they appear to them. That is an undeniable fact. It is also true that when you really dislike someone because of their personality or behavior, that they will often appeared to be unattractive even if they are not unattractive. Evidently there was something about Jess'personally that Rory found appealing because it doesn't make sense for her to leave Dean for Jess just based on looks.

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[–] irenefox28 8 years ago

IKR! It was insane! the chemistry between those two is off the charts.

_________________________________________________
"When you love someone, you know."--Captain Hook

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[–] Caeser 8 years ago

I've met people who absolutely hated Jess at the beginning but grew to love him by the show's end.

To me, he was hands down one of the more interesting characters on the show. He was not just one of Rory's boys - he added amusing drama to the town and the progression of his relationship with Luke was one of my favorites. I dearly missed their dynamics when Jess left. I also loved his chemistry with Rory and their interactions were a treasure. They were never boring and felt natural.

You may not find his face attractive but different strokes, different folks, etc. I found him to be very handsome when I was 14 and find him even more so now on my rewatch (mostly because the episodes are now in HD and the boy looks good in HD).

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

I've long suspected that my penchant for overthinking extends into my beauty preferences. It could be that I'm so ridiculously logical that even my screen hotties must be logically beautiful  Maybe I'm arguing senselessly on this subject...

But even if Jess was a supermodel, I still don't get the bad boy pull especially for an introvert with no rebellious tendencies such as Rory. I'm certainly looking forward to whatever positive character development they have for him, but honestly, I don't like the actor. I'd much rather have preferred Tristan to be the sensitive bad boy bf, which looks to be the direction they were originally going in before the actor got cast elsewhere.

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[–] blondiebear_17 8 years ago

Your interpretation of it is your own but while I do think Jess is some of those things I feel he is very attractive and that he is smart and funny. I like that he is kind of grumpy and jerky because thats just the way some people are at least one person in stars hallow had to be like that he had pretty good reason to be annoyed because he just didn't get along with a lot of people because he couldn't relate to them. Rory is very much the same as Jess in a lot of ways yes she is more polite and willing to give people a chance but she didn't have the crappy childhood that Jess had so she has a better attitude. Rory isn't that social and I think they had a kinship between their shared interests.

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

I like that he is kind of grumpy and jerky because thats just the way some people are

He's not just an everyday type of grumpy and jerky. He acts like someone with an un- diagnosed mental illness.

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[–] marniebanks 8 years ago

Oh I agree! When I watched it on Netflix recently and came on these boards I couldn't believe the amount of love he gets from fans! He had a massive chip on his shoulder and I can't believe they thought they could base another series around him when he went to LA

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[–] in-a-relative-way 8 years ago

I never liked Jess, not even when I was a teenage girl with a penchant for "bad boys". Jess was just straight up annoying to me, his stupid sideways smirk used to drive me up the wall.

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[–] shadaif 8 years ago

I'm not a fan a Jess either. The actor is cute, but I couldn't stand the character. I always thought he was a jerk that Rory should have kicked to the curb way sooner than she actually does.

"The end of the shoelace is called the...IT DOESN'T MATTER!"

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[–] MAK_CDN 8 years ago

I couldn't stand the Jess character. The arrogance and attitude just got on my nerves. The kid had zero redeeming qualities yet seemed to be given a break by everyone (especially Rory and Luke). The way he spoke to Lorelai and the way he acted at the Friday night dinner with Emily Gilmore just cinched my contempt for him. In reality this kid would never have had a long term relationship with anyone (romantic or otherwise) and would have had the crap beat out of him on a daily basis.

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

What's really strange is that no one in the show so far (I'm up to S4) ever mentioned getting any psychiatric help for him, because that kind of behaviour constantly can only be explained by a mental illness.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MAK_CDN 8 years ago

I was actually thinking the same thing the other day. I've been watching re-runs on the show and I remember thinking this kid has some kind of personality disorder... his conduct can't be a result of teenage angst.

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[–] kathykato 8 years ago

The problem is that you can't force a 17 year old to receive therapy or mental health treatment. Even if Luke dragged him to the therapist's office, he could sit there and pout and not say anything. During the time of his mom's wedding, however, you see Jess reading Luke's self-help books and listening to the tapes on how to have success in relationships. We also see him maturing and his relationships and interactions with his family later on. I do not feel that he had a mental Health disorder. He was an angry and rebellious kid who had to find his own way. Of all the characters on the show, I think Lorelai was the one who had a personality disorder and could have used some long-term therapy.

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[–] isabellaconnor 8 years ago

Liz was a crappy mother off screen to Jess, and it made it hard for me to warm to her as a character when she arrived. Throughout her scenes in season 4/5, I just kept being reminded that this was the same woman who didn't want Jess to come home for the school holidays in season 2. Really...what a vile parent.

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[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

Yeah I'm not sure why they brought Liz into the show so much because it made her look even worse to me. But Gilmore Girls likes to bring up these issues and then just drop them. Liz was written like some quirky and flaky mom who didn't mean any harm but I saw her as a crappy mom and person. She didn't care about Jess and left Luke to clean up her mess. She'd lucky either of them spoke to her again.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

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[–] isabellaconnor 8 years ago

Jess was a better character than boyfriend. By that I mean he had deep seated issues. Abandonment from his father, and a flaky mother who (judging from Luke's comments) had a history of bringing home unsuitable men. All of this made him 3 dimensional. This is also why I actually didn't mind Logan towards the end. Yes, he's a rich, pampered spoilt brat but he too suffered from his family's expectations. Ultimately, for me, it was Dean who was written badly.

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[–] bjamzilla 8 years ago

I agree with this. I also don't get the people saying he had a personality disorder. No, he was just angry from being raised by a negligent, self-absorbed mother. There are way more destructive kids than Jess who most certainly do have a personality disorder. I guess I have empathy because part of my late high school years, I was angry and depressed. I had no friends and gave up trying at that point, and was (and still am)living with my narcissistic father. I never was outright disrespectful to teachers, but I definitely had an attitude problem, and a problem with authority. And if people had told me there was something wrong with my personality and started labeling me a bad kid just because I had a bad season, I reckon I would've actually proved them right, you know? If you believe in self fulfilling prophecies and all that, which I do.

In the end I realized my problem with authority was related to my problems with my Dad, and tried to correct it when I was made fully aware. And Jess got a job, was financially independent and apologized and even thanked Luke for his support in the end. Let's just all agree that he was a rebellious teen who matured later on and leave it at that. I understand not liking a character(I personally don't feel any sort of way toward Logan and Dean was a mess as boyfriend and character), but personality disorder?😐 Even after learning he was raised by a unstable woman, abandoned by his dad and raised in an opposite environment to Rory and Lorelai?😕 Let us also agree that Milo Ventimigalia is by no means unattractive.😊

(JK,everyone's entitled to what they find attractive, but I would just like to know...how? It's kind of baffling to me. Is he too Sylvester Stallone-y for you guys or what?😅)

Wildcattin'...Wildcattin'. Pow! I'm gonna go.

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[–] blondiebear_17 8 years ago

I agree with this post a lot I mean I think saying Jess has a personality disorder is way off yes he could have definitely benefited from therapy but that is true for most people that doesn't mean they aren't right in the head. Jess had the sort of attitude someone develops after everyone around them has already let them down enough that they can't trust anyone or let them in anymore because they don't believe in people anymore. I mean who did he have to look to if he had no father and his mother was a flake? It was pretty clear what Jess's problem was he was a teenager who had been kicked out of his house and dropped into a completely different place than he was used to and he was rightfully upset about having his entire life upended. He was a jerk but as far as rebellious teens go its not like he was very bad.

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

Even taking all of Jess's life circumstances into account, he's downright anti-social. Lots of teenagers experience similar issues and they don't normally turn to snarling at well-meaning people like rabid dogs. Maybe Liz kept doing drugs while she was pregnant with him, which could've produced some brain damage.

I think that it may be an issue of acting and writing. The original sensitive bad boy approach they took with Tristan was much more low-key and believable. I am bummed that actor got cast elsewhere, forcing Tristan to get written out. It's like they decided to step it up a notch with the replacement and overdid it. Jess' supposed intelligence is poorly written too, because there's no evidence of it other than him carrying books around.

As for Jess being unattractive - he has plain features, a weird asymmetric mouth and the sort of body that screams 'underwear modelling's not an option'. I'd put him closer to Dustin Hoffman than Stallone. But I'll shut up on this issue now.

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[–] blondiebear_17 8 years ago

Liz actually was binge drinking when she was pregnant with Jess even though she appeared through out the series to be a harmless flake she was still a failure as a mother. I mean I haven't seen the Jess seasons in a while but even though Jess was really snarky he wasn't causing much mischief he was working in the diner and wasn't binge drinking or doing drugs like his mom. Jess's only vice was the occasional cigarette. I think Jess could have been a better functioning kid had Luke gotten to him sooner but he was pretty much an adult when he came onto the scene so Liz had already done a real number on him. He was pretty much harmless in my opinion yeah he was crabby but so is Luke and nobody is mad that Luke is cranky. I would say that Luke was the one who seemed like he might have been on the autism spectrum towards the beginning of the series it didn't make a whole lot of sense for him to be so anti-town when he had grown up there his whole life. I think Dustin Hoffman is decent looking enough he has a friendlier face then Stallone does and he looks good when he smiles so if you considered Jess to be a younger better looking version of Dustin Hoffman then I still don't see how that makes him unattractive? Strange thought that you think that Milo is so much less attractive than Stallone though given he actually did play his son in one of the Rocky movies.

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[–] hchudy 8 years ago

yep, seriously, his misdeeds are pretty much destroying a snowman and making a chalk outline. Not exactly a hardcore delinquent.

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[–] walk_tall 8 years ago

I always thought Jess had Narcissistic Personality Disorder - yes I do have personal experience of dealing with people who have that disorder.

He saw Rory, and recognised that she was a quiet, kind, gentle person, so he went after her - ideal victim for a NPD because that sort of person won't 'fight back'.

Narcissists are often highly intelligent, Jess copped on that Rory liked to read and what sort of books she likes, so he read the same books so that he could have conversations with her - turning himself into her "ideal boyfriend".

He made damn sure that everywhere Rory went, he was there, in her eye-line, so that when she'd turn around, he was the first person she'd lock eyes with (remember the dance marathon?).

He'd turn up in places that he knew she'd be, then storm off in a huff, making her feel guilty for upsetting him.

He 'stole' the bracelet Dean gave Rory then made it look like Rory was the 'bad guy' for not realising she'd lost the bracelet two weeks earlier.

Everyone else [on the show] hated him - but Rory kept defending him.

NPD all the way.

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[–] ChatAndCut 8 years ago

This is getting ridiculous. Not everyone has to like Jess, he obviously rubs a lot of people the wrong way - thats how he was written. But enough with the psychological assessments making him out to be mentally deranged. It's quite an evident sign of how intolerant and narrow-minded people are towards individuals with emotional issues. Imagine if this was how teenagers with difficult upbringings would be regarded and treated in real life?

Are you suggesting ASP modelled Jess after someone who had NPD? Also, where are you getting that he only read certain books because Rory read them? There are numerous scenes of him simply reading books by himself, including scenes after leaving Stars Hollow where there were no indicators of him ever seeing Rory again.

Suggesting he has NPD and brain damage - I fairly certain ASP would laugh at this. She's gone on record to say how much she actually likes Jess and that his and Rory's story isnt over. Not sure if thats how she'd write a serious love interest contender.. What show are you guys watching??

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[–] nuhor_lir_gurenna 8 years ago

To a hammer everything looks like a nail. To a person studying psychology, everyone has a disorder of some sort, other than that person of course. Ironically that is what a narcissist does.

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist - Sir Humphrey Appleby

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

It's quite an evident sign of how intolerant and narrow-minded people are towards individuals with emotional issues. Imagine if this was how teenagers with difficult upbringings would be regarded and treated in real life?

It's the opposite actually. The more society is aware of mental illness being just as legitimate as physical (in fact they can overlap often), the more likely it is that people afflicted by it become free of stigma and receive the help they need. And I mean proper, holistic help as opposed to just being stuffed with anti-depressants.

To me, Jess with a mental illness is a more sympathetic character because that means his behaviour is not his fault and that it can be improved, as opposed to him just choosing to be a prick. This, is in fact, the open-minded attitude and it would benefit many people with untreated emotional issues, including teenagers with difficult upbringings. Sweeping it under the rug is what's damaging.

I never said anything negative about mental illness, just that Jess seems symptomatic. It's you that interpreted it as intolerance.

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[–] ChatAndCut 8 years ago

It's intolerant to not see it as a natural human reaction to lash out at your surroundings when you've had a tough upbringing, but to rather see it as an abnormality - as you call it, an illness.

There is certainly nothing wrong with having a mental disorder, but that does not make it justified to throw around your own psychological diagnosis on people just because they do not respond to situations in the same way that you do.

Further, your intolerance shines through when you chose to see it in only two alternative contexts: 1) Mental disorder or 2) He CHOOSES to be a prick

It's not all black and white. He lashes out - and acts like a prick if thats how you'd like to define it - but there are numerous reasons why he does this which was also part of his overall character arch throughout the show. Hence why they also showed him several years later having dealt with many of his issues and undergone a serious personality change.

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

OK, so in your opinion, what is the upper limit on 'lashing out' that's acceptable before you suspect mental issues? Maybe he has them and maybe not, but why completely dismiss it as a possibility? Do you realise how damaging such an attitude is IRL to huge numbers of young people with undiagnosed disorders because people around them don't even think of it as an option?

Jess is a controversial character and there is no authority to tell fans what they think of him or not. I'm perfectly entitled to 'flinging around psychological diagnosis's' about him and I'm not the only one.

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[–] nuhor_lir_gurenna 8 years ago

People do far more despicable things than lashing out, like genocide or human trafficking. Do you know there are even people selling drugs to teenagers!? Do you think we should all just say:"Hey, let's cut them some slacks, they all have mental disorders of some sort, because healthy human beings are certainly not capable of that. It is not their fault at all. They are all sick, not evil, they all just require our loving and caring."?

There are legitimate mental disorders, like depression and people pretending they are actually qualified psychiatrists.

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist - Sir Humphrey Appleby

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[–] irenefox28 8 years ago

There are legitimate mental disorders, like depression and people pretending they are actually qualified psychiatrists.

lmao BEST line in this topic! Thank you.

_________________________________________________
"When you love someone, you know."--Captain Hook

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

There are legitimate mental disorders, like depression and people pretending they are actually qualified psychiatrists

And all those suggestions of 'lashing out' must be administered by people pretending to be qualified social workers, right?

Now why do I suddenly feel like Paris having said that?

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

"Hey, let's cut them some slacks, they all have mental disorders of some sort, because healthy human beings are certainly not capable of that.

Do people even have any reading comprehension anymore? Where did I ever suggest that? It's actually Jess fans that excuse his behaviour based on his family background and some mythical 'bad boy' desirability. I think that he's a jack ass either way. Untreated mental issues may have just compounded the problem, which may gain just a smidgen of sympathy.

It seems like there's no win in Jess discussions. Suggest that he chooses to behave badly and you're told that he can't help it because of his upbringing. Suggest that he has mental issues and he's not entirely to blame - and you're told he should be blamed because apparently you're excusing serial killers.

So which is it? Is it his conscious choice to be a jerk or not?

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[–] nuhor_lir_gurenna 8 years ago

I think both Jess and Paris are brilliant people, those are usually the people behaving differently from the ordinary people, so the ordinary people feeling insecure about their own ordinariness usually alienate such people, saying there are something wrong with them, call them weird.

There are even some hacks learned few psychology jargon pretending they actually know about human behavior telling these people that they need to be "cured". Let me just ask you what qualifications do you have to give these baseless and irresponsible diagnosis?

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist - Sir Humphrey Appleby

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[–] blondiebear_17 8 years ago

Lol if someone has a personality disorder it's Paris.

Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPppQHbtofI

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[–] nuhor_lir_gurenna 8 years ago

I would say Paris is a very intense person. But after her failure of Harvard enrollment I think she suffered strong maybe even clinical depression and she did seek help for that.

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist - Sir Humphrey Appleby

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[–] ChatAndCut 8 years ago

Well, according to you it seems like anyone who shows any sign of anger, frustration or emotional issues will need to be sent to the mental ward, so it's pretty safe to say your limit needs to be raised significantly.

The normal way of things is that if someone is showing sings of being psychologically unwell, you'd take them to see a therapist who would then diagnose them. My attitude does in no way hinder young people from getting help, it simply allows them the chance to see a professional who is in a position to make that assessment - instead of getting judged by unqualified bystanders.

You are certainly free to fling around your diagnoses, but it makes it very difficult to take any of your arguments - especially the ones related to your clear and utter hatred of Jess - seriously.

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

Well, according to you it seems like anyone who shows any sign of anger, frustration or emotional issues will need to be sent to the mental ward, so it's pretty safe to say your limit needs to be raised significantly.

I never said anything about mental wards. I just wished that someone in the show would've mentioned the option of therapy for Jess for his own sake. Why do people automatically see mental treatment as something sinister?

Jess shows nothing BUT anger or frustration in every single exchange with another human until his mom's wedding. For 3 seasons since his intro, he has no base level of normality by his own standards. That's why his behaviour is troubling.

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[–] Eva_Marrie 8 years ago

The normal way of things is that if someone is showing sings of being psychologically unwell, you'd take them to see a therapist who would then diagnose them.

That's precisely what I was suggesting all along. You're acting like I want Jess to be locked up and electro-shocked.

As for Paris - she's such a entertaining character that you WANT her to stay as crazy as possible. Jess just doesn't have that entertainment value. And yes, she did seek help which is great.

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[–] blondiebear_17 8 years ago

That is a double standard I am uncomfortable with. I mean personally I find Jess very funny and likable I mean he is always cracking jokes and I love his pop culture references so I am not sure why people only want to see the moody grouchy Jess. Jess to me is like a male version of Daria which I also love. I mean I get that Jess is a brat and unfriendly but in my opinion he isn't as problematic as someone like Paris who goes out of her way to bully and harass people because she is insecure. I mean Paris makes offhanded remarks to people that they should kill themselves or sterilize themselves and that is okay because she is funny? I am not saying I am not entertained by her wackiness but I think people are so hypocritical when it comes to the way they judge a character like Paris vs Jess. I personally found Jess very funny and charming though which is why I still like that character despite his snotiness. Although I know Jess is a troubled kid I don't see why the pitch forks are always out with him because he never harmed or bullied people.

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[–] bjamzilla 8 years ago

I agree to all this! Especially highschool Heathers era Paris. I always found her vile whenever she would hatch some scheme against Rory and make Brad her personal punching bag. She definitely had some issues then, but I wouldn't even call her sometimes self absorbed and cruel behaviour narcissism because her personality drastically changed later on. She became sympathetic, but still 'tough love'. She got better in college and much of her brutal honesty was played for laughs and not nearly as bad as it was when she was younger. But at Chilton I detested her. She was the only character I hated then and I'm surprised people feel this way about Jess and not Paris who was definitely abusive to Rory. Rory had to constantly prove to Paris that she was on her side, that she was her friend and not out to get her. And Paris definitely took pleasure in trying to bring Rory down.

Jess never went out of his way to cause Rory pain, and no one's saying he can't help acting the way he is because of his uprbringing, we're just bringing that up for context. Just because we like Jess's character doesn't mean we condone abusive relationships or just like the fact that he's a 'bad boy' which again I think diminishes the fact that he's not just a bad boy, but that he's had bad life experiences. I will never understand the vitriol this character receives and I won't try to, but I really hate some of the assumptions that Jess fans get because we find him to be an interesting and engaging character. Not boyfriend. Not nephew. Not underwear model. Character.

The last time I tried to express my dislike for a Rory boyfriend someone called me superficial and shallow and got weirdly angry at me about a fictional character and while that is pretty tame as far as internet insults go, it is not that serious to me that we should go about name calling strangers.(Personally, I try to be kind to people on the internet, because I don't know what kind of day they are having or what sort of thing will really upset them,but that's just me. 😏) So I think Dean's chokers and lame haircut is stupid, whatever, that's how I feel.( I could have brought up the extramarital affair...) At least I didn't call him a narcissist and told the fans they had a bad boy fetish. You're all entitled to say stuff like that, of course, but I just find it overreaching and ridiculous. Why can't we just say things are as they are instead of looking for a way to demonize and psycho analyze characters and their fans to prove some point that they are inferior.

Wildcattin'...Wildcattin'. Pow! I'm gonna go.

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[–] ChatAndCut 8 years ago

No, I am acting as if you're saying Jess either has brain damage, a mental illness, NPD, and/or is a potential rapist. Which is what you've been saying.

Either way, at this point lets just agree to disagree on this subject...

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