MovieChat Forums > Dancer in the Dark (2000) Discussion > view of America

view of America

posted 18 years ago by richee-1
40 replies | jump to latest

The director has never been to America, and states he'll probably never go there because of his phobia of flying. The movie was filmed in Sweden.

Is this his view of America? Where policemen have no dignity, innocent foreigners are guilty of things they didn't do, and prisons and death sentences and above all else HOLLYWOOD the place to dance and sing?
What about his other films like the "USA: Land of opportunities" trilogy. Dogville takes place in the Rocky mountains and focuses on rape and power hunger. Manderlay is in Alabama and focuses on slavery and black suppression. I can only guess what Washington is going to have in it.

Some say von Trier had no right to make this film, and others have really criticized Dogville and Manderlay. But that's exactly how life is in America. It's a money hungry, lawyer driven, death sentencing country, where innocent people are the biggest victims. The director has every right to show his view on America through symbolism and art.

[–] ShanaLD 16 years ago

I totally agree that Von Trier has the right to make whatever type of movie he likes, but your generaliztion that America as a whole is "a money hungry, lawyer driven, death sentencing country, where innocent people are the biggest victims" is quite a sweeping generalization. I am an American born woman of Trinidadian immigrants and now the wife of a Swedish man. So I totally understand the views of some from both the outside and inside this country. Yes there are things that are wrong with this country, just as there are things wrong with every country in the world. How the U.S. is suddenly cast as the worst first world country I do not get. Italy mistreats the Roma population, England mistreats African immigrants, Japan still denies a lot of its role in World War II. Despite those problems it cannot be denied that those issues do not represent those countries as a whole. And as an American I find your comments offensive. This country provided many opportunities for my family and my husbands. My father (became a chemical engineer) and three of his brothers attended university here and they all made something of themselves (his five sisters studied nursing in England and all now live in Canada and the U.S.). They all grew up on a sustenance farm and their parents saved to send them somewhere where they could have the opportunities in life they did not have in their own country. My mother attended university here (became a teacher) and her brother became a doctor in the army.

Von Trier already showed in Dancer in the Dark a sweeping ignorance of how the court system actually works here. But hey, it is his movie he can put whatever the hell he pleases in it.

[–] jonasbjohansen 15 years ago

I'm glad to hear that America helped your family to a good life. I too think that the image of the United States is being portrayed too onesided and harsh in a lot of movies, especially european movies.

I know that Lars Von Trier has a ambiguous relationship towards the US, and that he vents his fustrations about the injustices in the american society in a lot of his films. We see America being presented in a non flattering light, in movies like Dancer in the Dark, Dogville and Mandalay. But I think the underlying themes in these movies have nothing to do with america in general, but deal with the universal problems in human nature: Greed, envy, ignorance, hate and repression etc..

I think Von Trier use the setting of America because he sees a lot of contrast in this country, more so than everywere else. His movies are not all doom and gloom. For all the bad aspects that are pointed out in his movie, there is at least one potagonist who represent the opposite. In this case, Selma, who is altruistic, caring, trustworthy and pure. The 'dark' sides of reality is just too powerful, and that is what Von Trier is trying to point out, i think.

I don't think Von Trier is angry at America, just disapointed. The promise of liberty, life and hope has not been entirely fulfilled, and america still deal with a lot of issuses. But overall, his movies are not target against one paticular nation, but against the imperfections in people everywhere(including Von Trier; he once said that he did'nt make movies for the audience, but rather as theaphy for himself). The United States just happens to be a place where extremes clash on a personal level as well as in society, or at least, thats how it's portrayed in the media.

[–] Mr_McLaurel 15 years ago

Is this really the feeling you took away from this movie? I realize this will sound condescending but I feel sorry for you. Try to watch the movie again and forget your politics. The movie's not COMPLETELY apolitical what with the red-baiting that happens during Selma's trial, but I think it's just a small part of what the movie is about.

What's the Spanish for drunken bum?

[–] jorge-769-710105 9 years ago

What's the Spanish for drunken bum?

Pedo. Translates as Fart.

[–] SeisCinemaSeis 15 years ago

I am agree with most of you here. Lars von Trier have portrayed accurately some of the worst vices of USA. C'mon! just 4 years ago in several states, even underage kids could (and were) sentenced to death! Of course they weren't executed until they were 18 years old or older but they were sentenced to death when they had 15, 16, 17 years old!
Luckyly that ultra-barbaric penalty for the underage has been abolished (unless it has been re-activated recently).
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0302/p01s01-usju.html

Now, what about a total abolishing of death penalty, as in most countries around the world?

BTW I don't get why haji-5 feels so offended and behaves like a right-wing extremist when the truth is said. Look men, Hollywood vilifies and have vilified 'ad nauseam' practically any other country, even their main allies: the english, and jews in films like The Patriot, The Passion of the Christ, etc.

This is the list of the "democracies" that still applies that primitive penalty (Note: While 58 countries actively retains the death penalty only 26 countries have applied it in the last 10 years):

Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Libya, Malaysia, Mongolia, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, United States Of America, Viet Nam, Yemen.

As you can see from that list only Japan and USA are part of the so called "1st world democracies". The rest are totalitarian states like North Korea, Bahrain or Saudi Arabia or "flawed" states like Irak, Afghanistan or Somalia. You are in great company, yanks!

http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/international-death-penalty/death-penalty-statistics/page.do?id=1011348
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Global_distribution

[–] andrj908 13 years ago

I was born in the United States however I moved to Australia in my 20's and am very proud to still call Australia home. Really speaking, that country should be considered the Nation of Freedom. The US is full of crime and corruption, and has an unregulated capitalist driven economy. In retrospect, I certainly think that von Trier's views aren't too far from the truth-even though the US is my true home and place of birth.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] rmiikku 12 years ago

Americans don't travel around the world but still they have no problem portraying their opinions of it. Its ok to have opinions about things you know nothing about othervice you wouldn't have much of a world view, you can't really research all the things in the world but you should also accept that other people might have similar opinions about you and they are completely justified.