MovieChat Forums > Training Day (2001) Discussion > 3 Wise men scene killed the rollercoaste...

3 Wise men scene killed the rollercoaster ride

posted 8 years ago by Intothenightalone
19 replies | jump to latest

Sucked all the air out of the room. I feel that Ethan Hawke is the star of this movie so a whole scene where we see him sitting and watching others talk sort of breaks the rules of engaging storytelling.

If the scene were to remain included, it should have had Ethan interact in some, conflictive way.

Regardless of this scene, the movie works without it. So he gets a warrant and paid for it, this could have been shot as a phonecall and cash drop off.

[–] McQueen1980 8 years ago

i see what u mean but i enjoyed the scene regardless

also i think we needed to see police officers of a higher rank than Alonzo in the movie talkin about stuff

[–] Intothenightalone 8 years ago

I know the director said that he kept it in, despite it killing the pace, because he wanted to show the corruption or something. But I would have reworked it to have them perhaps testing Jake to see if he is cool with playing the game.

[–] gluiz 8 years ago

I agree it killed the pace, but it was a killer scene (no pun intended) anyway.

[–] Aranda_Bay 8 years ago

The scene establishes that the whole system is corrupt and not just Alonzo. Alonzo telling Hoyt to find a another table and order a baseball steak or something emphasizes the insignificance of Hoyt's rookie-ness in the whole scheme of things.

[–] nutsberryfarm 8 years ago

great scene. and the pacific dining car is a great place to get a steak.

🎄Season's Greetings!🎄

[–] orrdaniel398 8 years ago

It also shows that Alonzo wasn't the highest man on the totem poll. There were people above him and he had to play by their rules; he wasn't just a loose cannon who could do whatever he wanted. Alonzo probably had ambitions to become one of the "Wise Men" someday; that was the next step on the ladder.

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 5 years ago

oordaniel has it exactly right - the commentary spells it out

Alonzo wants to become a Wise Man himself, and have lunch over wine while giving out orders to others

More than that, he hopes that Jake might be corruptible, so he can leave his own domain under Jake's control and advance to "wise man" status. He sees potential in Jake that he never saw in the rest of his team.

Side Note: The Pacific Dining Car added a "baseball steak" to its menu in honor of this film. It was the first movie ever filmed in there, and Fuqua arranged it by just sitting down with the owner in the restaurant over baseball steaks.

[–] spurtle467 (1551) 5 years ago

That's a good answer, though it makes Alonzo pretty naive if it's still his hope that Hoyt will become corruptible by the time they arrive at Roger's house and asks him to shoot Roger, after Hoyt refuses any of the money and just generally his reluctance to go along with any of Alonzo's shady actions. It's pretty clear early on he is a do-gooder and on the opposite spectrum of Alonzo when it comes to their moral code. Kind of obvious he wouldn't shoot Roger for him.

Makes me wonder when exactly Alonzo figures out it's time to get rid of Hoyt, if we are to assume he previously had hopes that Hoyt will be his successor of sorts.

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 5 years ago

I figured the whole day, up through Smiley's, was Hoyt's "test."

Even after he tells Smiley to have the bathtub ready (to kill Hoyt), he makes one last attempt to convince Jake to go dark.

When Jake still doesn't bite, that's when Alonzo decides for sure to kill him.

Fuqua's commentary spells a lot of this out, though I think it's unnecessary to enjoy the film. Basically, Fuqua thinks Alonzo started out like Jake - ambitious and proactive, but gradually corrupted by the reality of the streets. Alonzo was trying to speed the process along with Jake, but overplayed his hand.

But because he's not an idiot, Alonzo had a backup plan in place in case Jake didn't bite.

[–] Lootrock (149) 8 years ago

I thought it was one of the more intriguing of the scenes. And no, Ethan Hawke is NOT the star of the film, Denzel Washington is.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Star? Yes, but it is Hoyts storyline. The movie starts with him. It’s called “training day”, which is also from his perspective.

[–] Lootrock (149) 7 years ago

Yeah, but in training, there's at least two people involved, so you just assumed its supposed to be all about him. While he is the protagonist, the movie is more about Denzel's character. Hell, Hawke is even in the background on the movie cover.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

That's marketing. Lots of movies put the big star on the poster and they're barely in it.

Hoyt saves his life but having the decency to stop and save a child from being raped, and having proof of having done so. If it was Alfonzo's story, we wouldn't have seen Hoyts escape, it would have been a scene like "time to pay a debt, love you baby, be back soon." - Hoyt arrives at the door. "Put your gun in the case, you're not going to make your date with the Russians."

It would be an interesting story if it was all from Alfonzos perspective, but this is very much Hoyts hero story.

[–] LTUM (1051) 5 years ago

roller coaster ride?

i missed that somehow

[–] Drooch (5333) 5 years ago

The film was moving pretty quickly so a quick stop to flesh out the ‘mythology’ was worth keeping in on balance.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I suggest you stay away from showbusiness.

[–] Interlepos (1811) 2 years ago

It's a good scene. It gives the film much more weight. Besides, the pace can't stay high all the time it would exhaust the audience. The pace is actually kept high by having "calm" parts inbetween.