MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) Discussion > Why Prequels Anakin didnt work

Why Prequels Anakin didnt work

posted a year ago by Batfleck (1538)
11 replies | jump to latest

It just occurred to me why the prequels anakin didn’t work and was a massive fail. but clone wars did.

Besides him and Obiwan relationship never being shown as a very deep friendship (something Filoni managed to show). George didn’t show enough of the Jedis “good” actions and orders to Anakin leading to massive damage and bad consequences. Such as sparing some general who keeps escaping and killing thousands. Being the Jedi way but what anakin would see as “evil”

Vs contrasting this with palpatines sith ways of realism and brutality actually leading to “the good”. Like brutally putting down a rebellion that brings peace. Or specifically showing two orders, one from the Jedi and one from Palpatine that Anakin would see as morally horrendous from the Jedi while the one from palpatine sees as correct and good

This would make a million times more sense in anakins fall aid “seduction to the dark side”. He would only see the surface level results and think “ohh the sith aren’t bad and Jedi leads to bad things”. But not see how this slippery slope always leads to a horrible situation as the force users seek more and more power through their dark side way of touching the force, using anger and unbridled emotions, which leads to more and more brutality and evil. Eventually even people with the purist intentions and with good lofty goals, have this soon and long forgotten and they became the pure evil they wanted to attain dark knowledge to fight to begin with. on the end vs the Jedis more thoughtful calm approach to the force/

It’s so obvious and apparent and would be so easy to do with even the most basic competent writing/ and it took Dave Filoni to do this since George couldn’t: it would also make a million times more sense, instead of that stupid ass “trying to save Padme” nonsense only to force choke her wut?!? He’s trying to save the republic: and sees how the jedi tactics aren’t working: maybe Palpatine reveals the “Jedi contingency plan” the masters came up with In The event the republic became unstable. Being the straw that broke the camels back proving to Anakin the jedi will do anything and can’t be trusted.

[–] Otter (24464) a year ago

I think that was all deliberate. I think that Lucas meant to show the Jedi as fading, losing touch with the Force, and acting more as an arm of the government than as protectors of the innocent.

I also think he meant to show that for all his power, Anakin was a crap Jedi! Because he was, he was far more concerned with his mother and girlfriend than his job, he did the righteous Jedi stuff because it was his job and he wanted to please Kenobi, not because he was ethical or good. And the Council were right to deny him the title of Master.

[–] Batfleck (1538) a year ago

that may be true, but if youve seen the clone wars animated show it does a far far better job making a sympathetic, likable, heroic Anakins whose motivations for turning are far far more logical and natural.

George just kinda failed overall

[–] Otter (24464) a year ago

Lucas didn't want to make three movies about Anakin's career as a Jedi, he wanted to make three movie about the fall of the Republic and Anakin's fall into the Dark Side. In that, he... largely succeeded, although we all still have quibbles about the end result.

He let others tell the story of Ani's Jedi years, in a different format and with a fraction of the budget. Because that wasn't what interested him.

[–] Batfleck (1538) a year ago

i mean he succeeded in that yes those plot points were hit... but its pretty unanimous that he did so poorly and the prequels were overall shit.

He let others tell the story of Ani's Jedi years, in a different format and with a fraction of the budget. Because that wasn't what interested him.

i mean hes literally the main character... this makes no sense. not saying you are wrong, i just mean if that was his belief its dumb. also theres a good way to make it all about the fall of the republic etc and tell a good story around these events still have anakin as the main character who is interesting. the problem is it seems Lucas failed at both counts. he told a shit story about the fall, and made Anakin annoying, unlikable etc. They were only slightly saved almost entirely by Ewan Mcgregors performance.. without that had we got an worse obiwan and less capable actor, it would have been unwatchable mess.

also hes not exactly known for doing political intrigue well... thats as ill fitting as when Lynch did dune.

[–] Otter (24464) a year ago

So Lucas made the story HE wanted to make, and not the story YOU wanted him to make! Deal.

And don't say that everyone thinks the Prequels are crap, because that's not the consensus. The consensus is that they're *flawed*, although of course opinions about exactly how flawed they are varies. You think they're crap, I think they're pretty good when those two young idiots aren't center screen... which means I think they're only *half* crap. Others agree that there is stuff worth watching in the prequels, although everyone agrees about Jar-Jar.

[–] Batfleck (1538) a year ago

So Lucas made the story HE wanted to make, and not the story YOU wanted him to make! Deal.

I may have not been perfectly clear so ill reiterate

if that was his belief its dumb. also theres a good way to make it all about the fall of the republic etc and tell a good story around these events still have anakin as the main character who is interesting. the problem is it seems Lucas failed at both counts

the issue isnt i disagree with the story HE wanted to tell. He still make Anakin the main character, just not his jedi career the focus. its mostly overall his execution of it was trash. a director is always telling the story they want to, that doesnt mean the execution is done well. also its pretty basic story telling. if i dont seen Anakins career and growth as a Jedi, i dont really care about his downfall to the dark side its story telling 101. You need to build up the first part, so the fall from that is more impactful, significant, emotional etc etc. So of course George stumbled on this very elemntary story telling aspect. i mean look at his career

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000184/

He hasnt directed anything good since New Hope except arguable Revenge of the sith. He didnt even direct arguably the best star wars movie the empire strikes back. His meddling even messed up what could have been a great movie, Return of the Jedi, when he forced silly Ewoks into it instead of having it be slave labor Wookies and alot darker. All to sell toys.

And don't say that everyone thinks the Prequels are crap, because that's not the consensus.

Attack of the clones is at 6.6%. Phantom menace is somehow lower at 6.5 on IMDB and 52% on RT. Revenge of the SIth is at 7.6 on IMDB and 7.9 on RT

notice how as soon as the political stuff is largely sidelined, the quality improves. but even Anakins "fall" is one of the most criticized parts of the film as feeling unearned and disjointed.

The arguements against the prequels are solid and valid. and paint a pretty clear picture of its failings and ineptitude as shit.

the defenders of the prequels boils down to "it wasnt that bad!!! it was secretely genius you just didnt get it!!"

the only thing ill actually give him massive credit for is the prequels not feeling like a slightly reworked copy paste of the originals like the sequels were.

but overall his execution was so inept, his story telling and dialogue so poor, his character development so weak, that they deserve the crap they get.

https://youtu.be/FxKtZmQgxrI?si=ak8cghbKM7kEm--N

I think they're pretty good when those two young idiots aren't center screen.

those two young idiots are our main characters............. when you hate bascically 2/3 of the main characters, that isnt a good movie... i dont care how Great the other aspects of the film are.. but the other aspects werent great...

meanwhile the clone wars animated, which not only had Anakins story as a Jedi, and as i covered in my origional post, does a far better job at showing his and Obi-wans friendship, his growth as a person and jedi, the rot and fall of the republic and ultimately the pay off and seduction of ANakin to the dark side. It has 8.4 on IMDB and 93% on Rotton tomatoes.

the fans have spoken. the critics have spoken. George story telling was shit and bad. the animated was better

[–] Otter (24464) a year ago

If you I that the prequels are a complete failure, if nothing in them worked for you, then that's your subjective opinion and I won't argue with it.

My opinion is also my own, I love Palpatine and find his rise to power chilling, and I think Ian McDiarmuid and Ewan MacGregor were terrific, as was John Williams. So while the films are deeply flawed by the presence of those young idiots, IMHO they are not devoid of merit.

So, as I'm not interested in listening to you bash the prequels more, I'm going to bow out, I just ask you to remember that your opinion is your own and not that of the entire fandom.

[–] Batfleck (1538) a year ago

they didnt work, most people agree.

his rise isnt "chilling".......... no one has ever described his portrayal as "chilling".... it was poorly handled and sloppy.

again okay Ewan was good, but you admitted 2/3 of our main characters were unwatchable.... that isnt a good film.

no your opinion is wrong and backed up by its reception and legacy. the fact the clone wars TV show is still massively praised, is reviewed amazingly by critically and fans, and looked back with love, meanwhile the prequels best defence is "okay it had some okay parts!" is pretty telling. you guys have tried to revamp its image and polish the turd but most people dont buy it.

[–] Ace_Spade (9574) a year ago

These are very good points, but I also think we should have seen him get more and more power and become corrupt. In fact, if the Jedi had treated him more like a golden boy, I'd say that would've been better. He starts thinking he's special and the rules don't apply to him. He gets a taste of power and as time goes on, it stops just being - as you say - about the Sith ways being faster and more "effective," (from his point of view...) but rather about power for its own sake.

So, I think we should have seen what you're talking about in Episode II, but by Episode III, he should've become scary, arrogant, and self-seeking. No longer really loving at all towards Padme. He might care about his children, because they will be more markers of what is "his," but he wouldn't value Padme (or their children, for that matter) for their own sakes or for love - just for what he could gain from them.

Then we would have seen a realistic way that power corrupts and we would have seen both a good person, well-intentioned slide into darkness.

Not this tell-don't-show stuff that we got.

[–] Batfleck (1538) a year ago

These are very good points, but I also think we should have seen him get more and more power and become corrupt. In fact, if the Jedi had treated him more like a golden boy, I'd say that would've been better. He starts thinking he's special and the rules don't apply to him. He gets a taste of power and as time goes on, it stops just being - as you say - about the Sith ways being faster and more "effective," (from his point of view...) but rather about power for its own sake.

i could def see that working too

yaaa that episode 2-3 change you describe wold have been pretty great and 100X better tan the anakin we got.

i think we kinda got that in clone wars the tv show. while he didnt have absolute power, he certainly was given more leeway, and was more independant and you could see the seeds planted of his scaryness and arrogance.

attack of the clones was a piece of garbage i have no intention of ever revisiting. Even phantom menace has almost no redeeming qualities except duel of fates.

[–] Ace_Spade (9574) a year ago

Either way, what should have been a trilogy about subtle political machinations and a character study of a rising star falling became a trilogy about overt political speeches and obvious maneuvering and a character study of a petulant man-child who got duped.