Are the Orcs suppose to be blacks? - The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) Discussion

[–] Bateman (604) 4 years ago

*rubs temples*

...No, he didn't. There is precisely zero indication, anywhere in his writings, that it was supposed to be the case. In fact, he went out of his way to state that

I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence.

so that really, any equating an unruly horde of evil savages with "black people" speaks far more about the people going out of their way to impose such an idiotic notion upon the text - typically, your needs-to-be-offended-by-anything-they-possibly-can types - than it does about Tolkien, his work, or his fans.

What this entire idea is, is an unspeakably moronic meme that seriously needs to die, already.

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

Claps hands with delight.

I couldn't have said that better myself :D

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 4 years ago

No. SPOILERS. The Orcs are Elves who were captured by Melkor and tortured and corrupted. Melkor was the progenitor of Sauron. He makes Sauron look like a fucking Cub Scout. It’s clearly explained in The Silmarillion. It was probably the most horrific, damnable moment in the entirety of the Rings saga. It moved me as much as the fall of Gandalf in Helm’s Deep.

“There are few works of genius in modern literature. This is one.”
- The New York Review of Books on “The Lord of the Rings”

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

I really need to read that book.

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[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

It's really really really long....

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[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

It's really really really long....

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

"It moved me as much as the fall of Gandalf in Helm’s Deep."
WHAT?? That never happened!

Don't you mean Moria?

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[–] Ace_Spade (9601) 4 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-O27XsZwSo

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

Not at all. In fact, from what I can tell, white British guys (or just white guys in general) played them.

Believe it or not, orcs are a type of goblin in fantasy stories. In some cases, they are huge and almost troll-like, such as on "World of Warcraft" or "Dungeons and Dragons."

I would never equate such creatures with black stereotypes.....unless you're watching "Bright."

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 4 years ago

I guess you missed or ignored my post. Orcs are corrupted and tortured Elves, captured and transformed by Melkor.

Merover, The Lord of the Rings has ZERO correspondence with fucking video games.

I don’t like being ignored.

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

There's no need to get angry. I wasn't aware that there was an obligation to comment on everyone's posts.

I haven't had the pleasure of reading the "Simarillion" and learning more about Tolkien's lore. It's just lucky that someone else on here already did and could remember all that.

I think I need to explain myself regarding the video games and whatnot:

Tolkien's work influenced hundreds of works and even a few fantasy franchises along the way. Every fantasy writer and their dog was writing stuff similar to him, or using his fantasy creatures in their work, though usually in alternate forms. It's very common these days to find fantasy books all over the place with dwarves, elves, fairies, mermaids, orcs, trolls, dragons, and a host of other fantasy beings that were seen in both Tolkien's writings, and even writings that came before his.

I used WoW and D&D as references, because it's possible there are people on this site who would recognize them, particularly after the corresponding movies came out. Granted, I don't play WoW, though I have played Lord of the Rings Online. I've attempted to join my brother and his friends at doing tabletop RPG games, but the trouble is, it's slow-going, takes hours, you gotta remember all these rules, the DM has to figure out what your dice did to move the story along, and sometimes there's arguing. I've been a bit hesitant at playing it in recent years, but if it makes other people happy in having fun and spending time with friends/family, I'd say go for it.

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[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

I think the complicated rules are what kids like about the game. I can't work it out but they'll play for hours.

Tolkein's Orcs came first, then the other fantasy homages followed, but many young people don't seem to know that. My kids told me Lord of the Rings feels derivative of all the video games they play. MY OWN CHILDREN!1!!1!! I've failed, I tell you.

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

Set up a visual timeline and explain which came first, they'll get it :)

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 4 years ago

Thank you for the elaboration, AmeriGirl. I’ve always liked you. Tolkien is precious to me, and I see red when it seems that someone is trying to cross-bread his work with the digital domain, just as I react to the use of “avatar” as “a stand-in for a player,” when it is actually a theological word meaning “a dragoman between God and humankind.” Jesus Christ was an avatar. I will not tolerate or countenance Him being trivialized. Enjoy The Silmarillion. It’s sort of a Rosetta Stone for Middle-earth. JRR’s son edited it.

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

My brother has taught me much about it, but that's not a good substitute for actually reading it.

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[–] papamihel (1616) 4 years ago

There is a kind of Africa in the Middle-East. Populated by humans. Dark skinned humans.

Orcs are supposed to illustrate the idea that evil not only corrupts one's soul but also makes you ugly. For example both Dark Lords in Tolkien's universe started off as beautiful creatures of light but their deeds turned them into scary monsters.

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14732) 4 years ago

An excellent analogy ;)

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[–] Zilkin (407) 4 years ago

There are exotic humans in Lord of the rings, from the east. They sided with Sauron and work with orcs. Tryin to end dat white privelege lol. To be fair Tolkien did write it was a terrible thing to fight other humans in that war and something to be regretted.

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[–] Owlwise (1536) 4 years ago

In the books, there's a scene where Sam & Frodo witness a battle between the Easterlings who serve Sauron & the forces of Gondor. Afterward, Sam comes upon the body of a slain Easterling, and he wonders if it was his choice to go to war or whether it was due to Sauron's lies, and if he had left family & friends behind who would mourn him. It's a small, quietly reflective moment, with Sam seeing a fellow being lying dead at his feet, rather than just The Enemy.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

I see no indication that he did.

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