MovieChat Forums > Good Will Hunting (1998) Discussion > Why 'Good Will Hunting' doesn't work

Why 'Good Will Hunting' doesn't work

posted 11 years ago by Wuchakk
72 replies | jump to latest

The theme of a genius janitor is great and I thought I'd like the film more than I did, but a couple of things really bog it down.

For one, Will Hunting is not a "good" person, as the title suggests (I'm sure they were being ironic). In fact, he's so smart he's stupid. Doesn't he know that smoking will destroy his body and send him to an early grave? (I get it, he's super-smart in some ways but he lacks common sense wisdom). More importantly, he's arrogant and unnecessarily mean. For instance, Professor Lambeau visits him in jail and Will's first words are, "What the *beep* do you want?" Could anyone be that stupid? How about, "Hi, I'm Will. Who are you, Sir?" I get it -- he's from a tough neighborhood and was abused as a kid, but 99% of guys from tough neighborhoods who were abused as kids don't talk unnecessary sheet like Will does in this film.

In fact, too much of the cussing rings untrue. Will and his three friends from South Boston use the f-word practically every other word and it strikes an inauthentic chord. Yes, I realize -- they're trying to act like hooligans from a rough neighborhood -- but they try too hard and it comes off contrived.

I should add that I hail from a neighborhood where the gang cussed, drank, did drugs & smoked like sailors, but even we could construe eight words together without throwing in the f-word (although two full sentences would be a challenge, lol). I have no problem with realistic cussing in films; in fact, I prefer it. But when it's so over-the-top that it seems artificial it detracts from the drama.

Furthermore, Damon doesn't LOOK like a tough guy from the wrong side of the tracks (neither does Ben, but he's a little better). Matt's miscast because he just looks too soft with his baby-face. I think he knew this because he tries too hard to be a tough punk, and it shows.

The fact that the main protagonist is thoroughly unlikable takes away from the story. Who cares about some disrespectful punk who doesn't care to better himself, genius or not? As a result, the drama isn't nearly as compelling as it could've been. When Sean (Williams) finally gets Will to break at the end, I wasn't much interested.

I'm not saying that the movie's wholly bad or that it's a waste of time, but the above factors prevented it from having any impact on me.

[–] TxMike 11 years ago

Well no one can deny you the right to react to the characters the way that you do. It is quite a bit harsher than my reaction to them.

TxMike
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

I like the way you (somewhat) disagree but you don't condemn me and call me a troll or whatever, which happens too often on IMDb. Thanks.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Valisun 11 years ago

I disagree that Will is hunting is unlikable. You bring up four points

He cusses at the Professor when he sees him in jail. Its a bit harsh sure. But look at it from Will's viewpoint. The first time he saw the professor was when he walked up to him, yelled at him for doing "grafitti" and shouted at him "don't you walk away from him." All Will did at that point was do math on a chalkboard, say sorry twice and try to leave without incident. In fact its the professors who was first mean and arrogant to Will is it not? Will presumably quit his job over the incident, so yeah he's caught off guard and is angry when he sees him again.

Can't really argue with the other 3 points. He smokes. Smoking is a bad habit. Big deal. I don't think this makes him unlikable.

Too much cussing in the film. I didn't find it unrealistic at all. Will was a hooligan yeah. Would of thought you had a better point bringing up how he started a fist fight. But yeah I wasn't bothered by his cussing.

He has a baby face. Can't good looking people be on "the wrong side of the tracks?" Kind of silly thing to say a movie doesn't work over

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

I'll have to rewatch that scene where Will meets the professor in the hallway while he's writing on the board. It seemed to me Will barely looked at Prof. Lambeau before running off cussing for no good reason. Also, it didn't seem like the professor was being mean or arrogant to Will, but rather simply inquiring because Lambeau had finally found the person who solved his board problem. Is that worth being rudely cussed out? And why would Will quit his job over the incident? No one was threatening him. Was it simply because he didn't want to be found out as the problem solver?

My point about smoking is that Will is supposed to be a genius and yet he doesn't have the sense to know smoking is bad for his health? Then again, maybe the filmmakers are making the point that Will is so smart he's stupid when it comes to commons sense, which is the case with a lot of geniuses.

It wasn't just too much cussing -- although that's part of it -- but that Damon and Affleck were trying too hard to appear like youths from the tough side of town. It struck me as decidedly artificial.

It is true that people with "baby faces" also come from the bad side of town, but I wasn't referring to this in just a physical sense. In real life these guys with baby faces from the rough side have a hardened edge to them that I didn't see in Damon in the film. He came across as a pampered suburbanite throwing out cuss words left and right to appear tough.

And maybe that solves my problem with the film: Will's just hiding behind a front; it's all posturing. Sean (Williams) senses this and goes to work to patiently break it, which he does by the end.

I'll give the film a re-watch soon with these thoughts in mind. Thanks Valisun; Good points.

[–] shoegal421 11 years ago

I can't comment on the jail scene because I haven't watched it in a while but will address the smoking...I think it comes out of habit. He probably took it up when he was much younger because all his friends started smoking. There are many smart people who smoke, drink, do things that are harmful to the body but that doesn't make them less intelligent. Part of the smoking may have been posturing like you mentioned too.

[–] Lucy9596 11 years ago

Will's just hiding behind a front

This. ^^

Will Graham: I don't find you that interesting.
Hannibal Lecter: You will.

[–] Valisun 11 years ago

Yes the Prof was mean to Will. The Prof didn't have the faintest idea that Will was the problem solver at that point, instead he sterotyped Will the janitor in once glance and told him not to do grafitti. Will already started walking away and said sorry twice that's when the prof. barked don't walk away from me.

Its at this point Will loses his temper and yells back "hey *beep* you" or something like that. Will tells his friends he was let go but it doesn't seem like his boss fired him so presumably he quit because he assumed the backlash would be bad.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

Thanks for clearing that up, Valisun; I'll keep it in mind the next time I watch it.

[–] Pandorum_Sufferer 11 years ago

Can I politely recommend you re-watch as some of your points have already corrected

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

Some, but not all; and not my major complaint.

Thanks, though; I will give it a fresh viewing soon.

[–] simplicity-nz 11 years ago

Your smoking point is void. The vast majority of people, including geniuses, know it's bad for their health, yet continue to do so. Their are other factors involved with addiction than intelligence.

[–] snarfsisgross 11 years ago

I'll respond chronologically to your post.

First of all the "theme" was not a genius janitor. That is an element of the plot. I'm not sure you know what "theme" means.

The title does not suggest Will is a good person. It suggests that the characters in the film are "Hunting" for "Goodwill." Robin Williams is trying to reach Will. The professor is working with Will so he can realize his potential. His friends are hoping he gets out of the neighborhood. His girlfriend is opening herself up to someone from a lower class. You can read it as a double entendre. But I don't think you understand the meaning of ironic, either.

"He's so smart, he's stupid." Sorry - not even in the slightest.

As far as smoking - choices one takes with his or her own health are not indicative of character. Are all obese people "bad?" Are all alcoholics "bad?" Are people who drive up their stress by working too much "bad?" As far as smoking being a reflection of intelligence - plenty people make the conscious choice to smoke even with health risks later in life. Particularly, young people from bad neighborhoods (and good neighborhoods) are more apt to do things without regard for their well-being in 50 years. Relax.

As far as him being arrogant and mean - clearly a defense mechanism for growing up an orphan in horrible circumstances. As far as 99% of guys with Will's background not talking "sheet" like him - that's quite the documentary evidence, is that from the CDC or Census?

Re contrived profanity - you have a point. It does come across as trying too hard at times, but young writers/filmmakers aren't necessarily known for subtlety and nuance. But 20 years old kids from South Boston say *beep* a lot. 20 year olds everywhere say *beep* a lot, particularly when hanging out with their buddies.

Damon does try too hard to be a "tough punk." I think he did pretty well, but the entire script does reek of two middle class guys from the Boston burbs wanting to play street.

I disagree Damon is unlikable. He is manipulative, defensive, withdrawn, challenging to authority, disrespectful, etc... - but he's also engaging, clever, witty and loyal. He's complex, which is really what you need in a protagonist. As far as a protagonist needing to be likable - that trope has been put to bed. Have you not seen Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Californication, Louie, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

You sometimes come across as condescending and overly technical (like your nitpicking about "theme" -- come on), but you don't come across antagonistic and you have many worthy insights to share, so I appreciate it.

Excellent explanation of the film's title.

I never said smoking makes you bad, my point was that Will's supposed to be a genius, but lacks the common sense to realize that smoking is bad for your health. I'm sure that was the point, however.

As far as 99% of guys with Will's background not talking "sheet" like him - that's quite the documentary evidence, is that from the CDC or Census?

I was talking about Will talkin' unnecessary sheet, like the way he absurdly greets the professor in jail. I was exaggerating for effect but, generally speaking, yes, the vast majority of tough dudes from the streets have enough common sense not to start unnecessary sheet, particularly when someone's going out of his way to reach out to them. But, again, maybe that's the point: Will is so intelligent he's stupid when it comes to common sense.

Re contrived profanity - you have a point. It does come across as trying too hard at times,

A fan of the film finally admits that this is a legitimate weakness of the movie. Thank You.

Damon does try too hard to be a "tough punk." I think he did pretty well, but the entire script does reek of two middle class guys from the Boston burbs wanting to play street.

Again, thanks.

I disagree Damon is unlikable. He is manipulative, defensive, withdrawn, challenging to authority, disrespectful, etc... - but he's also engaging, clever, witty and loyal. He's complex, which is really what you need in a protagonist.

Keep in mind that I really wanted to like this movie and thought I would after reading about it, but as the story progressed I found myself not caring too much about Will and when he finally breaks down in Williams' arms I was completely disinterested. Why? Probably a mixture of the trying-too-hard-to-appear-like-bad-dudes thing and also that I didn't find enough to respect in Will (finding something to respect about a person effects whether or not you'll consider them "likable").

As far as a protagonist needing to be likable - that trope has been put to bed.

Even with a total anti-hero there has to be some important aspect about the protagonist that the viewer finds worthy in order to care for him/her, at least care about their outcome in the story. Manny (Jon Voight) in "Runaway Train" is a good example. In a way he's criminal scum, but the excellent writing helps the viewer relate to him and his plight; unfortunately, he's too far gone to turn from his sad fate.

In any event, I'm going to give the movie another watch within the next year or so and I'll be on the look out for these positive things you say about Will.

Have you not seen Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Californication, Louie, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?

I haven't seen any of those yet, but my brother recommended "Game of Thrones".

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hodie 11 years ago

Will said "Sorry" twice in the hall when the professor first spotted him. He went on the defensive when the professor started talking down to him. He smoked because he was young and everyone he knew smoked. Young people think they're invulnerable because they've always been healthy. That was the point. He had knowledge but no experience or wisdom. Where would he have gotten it from?

Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it!

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

Good points.

[–] Marion_C 11 years ago

I always thought the title was weird. I didn't realize "Will Hunting" was a name.
I thought it was about good will or something.

Anyway, you have a point with Damon not looking like a tough guy. Neither did DiCaprio at the time. But I still think Damon was a great choice just by his acting ability even though I would imagine a "tough guy" looking more like a young Charlie Sheen or Emilio Estevez or something.

"MALLL NOOO, JESUS CHRIST!" - Leonardo DiCaprio, Inception

[–] Degree7 11 years ago

All due respect OP, you're looking at it as the "glass is half empty" instead of half full. Will is supposed to be a little punk with no respect for authority, other people, or even himself. That's what makes his transformation towards the end so gratifying. It's called a character arc. Here is, as the professor said, the greatest human mind since the days of Einstein and he is sabotaging himself because he doesn't believe in his own potential, or doesn't even care. He's apathetic, living in the past and even though he doesn't realize it, actively conforming to society's expectations of him.

Will is someone who is scared to realize his own potential because he is still living in the past memories of the abuse and neglect that he suffered at the hands of his foster parents. As such, he is stunted because he finds he is too scared to accept the love of someone who he thinks is superior, or too good for him. But he is shown by his closest friend that these are meaningless boundaries, and that only when he is willing to uproot himself and travel to the unknown (California), that he is able to love not just his girlfriend, but himself. Whether he finds her or not is insignificant. He is stepping the right direction by letting fate carry him.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

It's a quality comment and I'll keep your words in mind the next time I watch the film. Thanks.

I enjoy films that focus on the characters and, particularly, films about redemption where the protagonist learns and changes for the better, i.e. a positive character arc. Marlon Brando's Kid Rio in "One-Eyed Jacks" is a good example. The first act shows him to be a womanizing, lying thief and 5 years in a Mexican prison fills him with hatred and vengeance. Throughout the rest of the film, however, the power of love slowly changes him. It's a powerful movie and I love films like this.

But, for some reason, the character of Will Hunting didn't click with me and when he finally broke down in Williams' arms at the end I didn't find it moving at all. I was completely disinterested.

My initial post was an attempt to find out why I was disinterested. I guess it's because Will kept turning me off and I never developed respect or care for him. The writers went overboard in making Will a repugnant punk. Even an antihero has to somehow win the respect or care of the viewer in some way for the viewer to root for him/her. Take Manny in "Runaway Train", played by Jon Voight (and, yes, I realize I'm going way back): He's basically a savage beast who's too far gone for redemption, but he knows it and he warns people in one way or another. It's a sad character arc, but we can relate to his situation even if we're no where near his condition.

That said, I'm hoping to like "Good Will Hunting" more the next time I watch it. I'll search hard to find something to respect about Will and try to relate to him somehow. We'll see.

[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Even an antihero has to somehow win the respect or care of the viewer in some way for the viewer to root for him/her.

I think the writers made a few attempts to give Will some noble or heroic moments that shows he has a good heart. When he defends his friend from the Harvard student in the bar, as well as backing them up in a fight early on, the rant about the NSA, and opening up to Minnie Driver's character slowly. I don't think he's so one dimensional as you describe him.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

I checked out your reviews & lists and enjoyed them. You feature a real nice smorgasbord.

[–] Degree7 11 years ago

What the heck is a smorgasbord? lol

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

As in a nice variety of genres and mix of older & newer. In other words, your cinematic tastes aren't one-dimensional, which is a good thing.

[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Ah well thanks bud, I try to be balanced in what I watch, read, and listen to.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

[–] TheCommenteer 11 years ago

You don't seem to have a strong grasp on the things you're trying to discuss. Do some reading on human behaviour and start mixing out of your comfort zone and you might start to understand things a little better.

You're also failing to identify that being a genius in math doesn't translate to being capable of making all the right decisions in all aspects of life.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

Get real. I've hanged with both the dregs and elites of society and can spot a fake from about 20 paces. I didn't say I hated the movie, but too much of the acting of Matt Damon and his pals struck me as artificial; not all of it, but too much of it.

I suggest that you learn to base your arguments on the facts of the film in question and not subtle ad hominem attacks. The fact that you rashly jumped to ad hominem tactics shows that you suspect my criticisms are legitimate. in other words, "thou doth protest too much."

Also, if the people you socialize with act like the supposedly tough dudes in this movie I pity you and encourage you to branch out some more.

Lastly, you're obviouly one of those types who automatically disparages people who merely disagree with your high opinion of a movie. It's actually pathetic. Needless to say, Grow up.

[–] TheCommenteer 11 years ago

"I don't like your ad hominem attacks you jerk!"

Did I miss anything? Okay, thanks for that waste of my time. I'm sure you thought you had a point. You didn't.

Sorry you can't tell what an ad hominem is, though you should probably work on that since you seem to talk about it like a typical bandwagon jumper.

Needless to say, you don't put capital letters after a comma.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

If you're gonna quote someone make it an actual quote rather than put your erroneous spin on it.

The rest of your words ring hollow, perhaps reflecting what's in you.

I repeat: I suggest you learn to base your arguments on the facts of the film in question and not subtle ad hominem attacks. The fact that you rashly jumped to ad hominem tactics shows that you suspect my criticisms are legitimate. in other words, "thou doth protest too much."

Now respond with something relevant and meaningful or shut your pie hole.

[–] TheCommenteer 11 years ago

Seemed word for word to me.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

Hollow reply and no argument.

[–] Guamley 11 years ago

I'm really not following you on the smoking thing. I mean doesn't everybody know smoking is bad for their health? It's an addiction and intelligence does not make people anymore or anyless susceptible to them.
As for the constant use of foul language, it's pretty typical for people in their age group.
I do agree with you as far as Damon not convincing me that he's a tough guy, and about him not being especially likable.

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

We dealt with the smoking issue on this thread and I thought I edited my original post, but maybe not.

The problem I had with the cussing was not that the characters cussed but rather that it struck me as overdone, like the writers or actors were trying too hard to paint these guys as tough dudes from the bad side of town.

I do agree with you as far as Damon not convincing me that he's a tough guy, and about him not being especially likable.

Thanks. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who picked up on these things.