MovieChat Forums > G.I. Jane (1997) Discussion > To all the men that say ALL men are phys...

To all the men that say ALL men are physically and mentally stronger....

posted 15 years ago by cfeld2
99 replies | jump to latest

For the men saying that NO women can compete in feats of mental and physical strength with a man, and win.....is really not true. In regards to physical strength, there are a few, though not many that can go toe to toe with a man. I'm 26 y/o 6'2 174lbs, triathlete since age 16 and a bjj brown belt. I've both fought and taken down men my size, or slightly larger, on a pretty consistent basis. The sole reason I fight men, is because there are so few women like me.....extremely tall/strong/same weight class. But by me saying there aren't many, doesn't mean that I'm the only one. There ARE other women like me out there.
In regards to mental toughness, I've run marathons where a large portion of my shoe was filled with blood by mile 19, but finished the race. I've had more broken bones than can be counted on both hands, I've had teeth knocked out. I tried "suspension" on a dare one time, but ended up liking it so much for meditation purposes, that I try to do it at least once a year(though most probably won't know what that is, better yet could wrap their mind around trying it).

The bottom line, is that I can go toe to toe with probably a nice percentage of men on feats of physical strength, and be on par with damn near 100% of men, in regards to mental toughness. This is a man's world and we have to prove ourselves day after day. Do men consistently have to worry about getting paid less for the same type and quality of work? Do men have to worry about getting railroaded at the "spa", the same way we have to worry about getting railroaded by our mechanic? Are the majority of single parents out there, men?.......who have to worry about raising a kid all by themselves, while working to support their family and perhaps going to school too? Do men have to worry about jogging, or taking the bus, or even walking to their car while it's getting dark? Do men have to take self-defense courses soley to protect themselves from being raped? Do men have to consistently be weary of being alone when a repairman comes to your house? Is there an epidemic of roofies being put into men's drinks? Are men required to keep up their superficial image of beauty through painful surgeries and procedures as they get older, while their women are allowed to get fat, bald and let themselves go? Are men consistently ridiculed and degraded through sexual harassment while walking down the street, or even by their much older boss or colleague where they work? And when they finally grow tired of it and take a stand, are they then deemed "too sensitive", "a bitch", or told "it must be THAT time of the month"? Are men, who are good, tough, no-nonsense businessmen, consistently seen for what they are, or are they simply called a "bitch"? Are men expected to carry children for 9 mos, while still working at the same time? And if they could, would they BE ABLE TO carry and push a child out of their ripping hole? Are anywhere between 1/3 and 1/4 men, raped at some point in their lives? And unless they are in prison, or grew up in a bad family, is that something they EVER have to even worry about? I've worked with both men and women rape victims, and I've got to say that the men handle it FAR worse than the women. Are some men required to stay home, take care of the kids and the wife, keep the house clean, do the laundry, cook the food, etc....and then are still told that their jobs aren't as valueable or hard as their wives?

With all these things that women are forced to put up with on a daily basis, living in a "Mans" world, how can anyone say they are not as strong or STRONGER than men, mentally? Please tell me about how men have it so hard.

This is sure to be followed by the residual "You must be a dyke", or "FEMINAZI!" comments. Blah blah blah. Men are allowed to post the same type of post, BUT are just "being men" and "speaking the truth", however any woman defending her gender against attacks made right here on this board, or in the real world, is seen as a bitchy, dykey feminist.

[–] delriosong 13 years ago

Apparently the ban of unmarried soldiers having sex in Afghanistan was lifted in early 2008. In general such offenses are handled at the level of the battalion command who can reduce enlisted personnel (E-2 through E-4) down to E-1, fine 1/2 a months pay times two months, and impose restriction and extra duty for 45 days. That is the maximum and sometimes commanders will impose less. If a single female gets pregnant in or out of a combat zone and she states the intention to have the baby she will be "chaptered out" of the military and given a general discharge.

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,167950,00.html

The only thing I had against Gibson in Lethal Weapon was that he was just a little bit too young to have been in Vietnam and had a lot of experience there. He was 17 in 1973 when combat operations ended. I did think that he did a great job in We Were Soldiers. He gave a great performance as a first rate officer. A former buddy of mine was one of Gibson's primary instructors at Fort Benning for his weapons training prior to making that movie.

I attended a lecture given by Lieutenant General (Ret) Hal Moore and Joe Galloway about the battle for LZ Xray. It was awesome.

Didn't see the shooter, can't remember The Right Stuff very well. Maybe I need to give it another look. "They had the true and righteous stuff."

Believe it or not about the two most accurate and convincing military characters I've ever seen were

Chief Phillips in Apocalypse Now (1979) played by Albert Hall. He seemed to epitomize the professional NCO in the USA military. By the book in most cases, giving whatever it took to get the job done, and genuinely cared about the well being of the men in his charge.

and

SGT O'Neill in Platoon (1986) played by John C. McGinley. I met plenty of guys like him, always ready to brown nose, always ready to attempt to get over, (requesting to leave on the last chopper before the big battle), and always ready to compromise their integrity for expediency, (ignoring Bunny's murder of the mentally disabled Vietnamese civilian in the hut).

I've lived upon the edge of chance for 20 years or more...
Del Rio's Song

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] delriosong 13 years ago

Despite his smaller frame at 135, do you reckon he could have completed the seals training program with success?

Yes I think Bruce Lee would have had a good shot at making it. He already had good bone density from martial arts, as well as top notch discipline. His muscles could deliver explosive power instantly so they were very well conditioned.

People who attend the U.S. Army Ranger School who are overly bulked up from much training with heavy weights have a few problems. They are used to a very high calorie diet and suffer a lot from food deprivation. Further their muscles are very well adapted for heavy weight but not as much for endurance.

When it comes to the swimming, which is highly important in SEAL training, bulked up bodies are not as buoyant as a lighter body, and really bulky guys don't swim as easily as more normal body types.

The best way to get ready for SEALs or Special Forces and such is to train for a combination of muscular strength and endurance without getting overly bulky.

It's not always the bulkiest guys who pass these training programs.

I've lived upon the edge of chance for 20 years or more...
Del Rio's Song

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] delriosong 13 years ago

Absolutely right, especially when they are new to the special operations community. Guys who have been around for a while like to bulk up. The guys on the teams will tell you that Special Forces Assessment and Selection and the Qualification Course are more demanding than their actual deployments.

A good indication is to search the net for photos of the winners of the annual Best Ranger competition. They look like regular guys clothed, like they could be working in a Sears of something. But when you see what these guys are capable of you understand the difference between people who are fitness dilettantes and those who make it a 110% commitment and a way of life.

I've lived upon the edge of chance for 20 years or more...
Del Rio's Song

[–] Chainsaw-wrecks 13 years ago

Is that wolf girl thank she will be a boy and butch when she loses her baby fat? Are does she want to drive diesels after high school? She needs to join a karate dojo and see how she stacks up!

[–] wolf_blaze-1 13 years ago

You don't really have much to say if all you can do is call me names and say "I has experience so I'm right!" Ideological nonsense? Now why isn't letting women work "idealogical nonsense" then? What about giving men paternity leave? Ideological nonsense as well? These are all valid gender issues whether you like it or not; deal with it. I'm sorry this is putting a dent in your sensitive masculinity. Getting troops killed? There are thousands of women in combat in other countries that help save the lives of their troops. If a woman can do what's needed, she will not allow harm to come to them. They're a unique, valuable asset. Again, I'll remind you that if no woman can perform to the one standard I'm okay with that, as long as the doors are open.

By the way, I know many, many people in the military who agree that if a woman can hold their own, then why the hell not let them? They agree that it's a stupid, old, archaic law.

There's so many possibilities...imagine if an all female special ops team was sent to gather intelligence in an extremely patriarchal society such as Afghanistan. They would never expect women to have such a vital role and thus, disregard their activities.

If all you guys can come up with is "no women allowed cause we said so!" I honestly don't know what to tell you.

[–] Chainsaw-wrecks 13 years ago

No one in special operations thinks a woman can make it there. Who do you actually know that is a special operations veteran who says they can, name real people and links. This does not mean women cannot do other jobs. Do your mythical friends also say women can play NFL and are NFL VETERANS TOO? YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A CHILD WITH NO EXPERIENCE MAKING IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG. Now stop eating so many sweets and get some excercise.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

Catfish and ramma, get over it and try talking maturely like delrio.

[–] lavenderspirit2005 13 years ago

This is a very legitimate argument, OP.

Frequently, these attacks against the female gender come from an arrogant mentality about the capabilities of women.

I have read of, witnessed, and heard accounts of women maintaining a sense of control, power, and possessing a great deal of mental & physical strength in dire/violent circumstances compared to some or many of their male counterparts who have succumbed to emotional collapse.

There is a *myth* of women's fragility, based upon institutionalized concepts that have been established to affirm a male privilege/power system. Bluntly put, these beliefs are often enforced and disseminated about women's strength (or the lack of) not strictly, necessarily, or particularly because it is true but because the enforcement of these concepts are vital in order to preserve the current social order.

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[–] subase 13 years ago

The main problem is wear and tear on the muscular, ligament, cartiglage and skeleton system. The weights soldiers have to carry now, every day for long durations has never been higher.

Sure a woman can perform great feats of strength from time to time, but again and again over long periods, her body will break down, like the majority of mens.

Granted I think this aspect of sf selection is unfair, given that lifting such weights rarely occurs in combat and never in such a repetitive fashion without rest. But even if strength requirements were toned down in this regards, I doubt any woman would make the cut.

In time as the army becomse even more dependent on technology, women in the military will steadily increase and soon enough they'll ask to be allowed into combat roles.

In times of total war such as in Russia during WWII german invasion, women served in the front line combat roles, this was done out of necessity. But the advantages are clear, so I think the military should have knowledge in training women for war and tolerating and adjusting for the handful of women who do make the cut for sf and infantry units, it's a great opportunity. Wars becoming more and more police orientated also give alot of support for training up female soldiers.

Pregancy is an issue, so is menstruation. But with technology nowadays, they can be prevented. Also soon enough I think women will be able to modify themselves to have the same level of testosterone as men. Basically technology will decrease the physical differences between the sexes, a little at least.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] movie_fan59 13 years ago

No need to describe them. Go to youtube and search woman beats up man. There are a whole bunch of videos of men getting their asses kicked by women.

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: "We have a comedian among us. Private Joker."

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] lavenderspirit2005 13 years ago

Soooo lavender, describe all these hand to hand male vs female fights where the female won with you there as a witness. It sounds that you watch too many movies and read feminist fantasy blogs.

I know this was posted a while ago but this is the first time I've seen this, so I felt obliged to answer your passive-aggressive question.

Examples? Well, some of many are accounts/biographies/personal narratives of women managing to survive times of dire poverty, violence, and wartime, still managing to raise their families, refusing to succumb to physical/mental deterioration, and even achieving success while certain male counterparts have collapsed (mentally and/or emotionally).

You brought up hand-to-hand combat but what women have already long discovered--physical combat is NOT the only sign of strength. There are many women who are physically strong--I would also include myself! However, I'm not just speaking of that element. That is only one very small aspect. I'm speaking of broader, more complex scenarios which highlight and emphasize female strength.

Example? My own great-grandmother had a big family, over eight children, and her first husband abandoned the family. By the strength of her own labor working two jobs, the family survived and even prospered. Everyone grew up to solid middle-class lives.

That's a sign of not only female physical strength but mental and emotional strength contrasted to my great-grandfather who didn't feel he had the 'strength' to provide and labor for his family.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

That's awesome, Lavender, but this doesn't mean women can bear the levels of physical demand that the highest levels of military men place on women.

[–] SausagePourVous 13 years ago

I will no longer support equal work,equal pay,since that point has very recently left a very bad taste in my mouth.No one has said anything about it yet but I´m gonna write an aticle here.Everyone,including myself is and have been so scared of being seen as a misogynist or a womanhater if one not agrees with this financial equality....but physical strength is the very nature of this problem.

A few weeks ago,a 24 year old swedish,female prisonguard was beaten to death by a man with her own stick.She had very little experience,this falls on the state and she might´ve lost her life precisely due to this"Women can also do this job,let´s give them a chance". Insanity.She was not alone,another female guard was at the scene,walking the prisoner."She tried to assist her collegue but failed.",they say.How can you do that? What kind of person can watch another,watch a friend get beaten to death and when struggling,flee the scene in fear while supposed to be risking her safety and doing her fu<king job??? How can you leave your friend like that? Selfpreservation,female selfpreservation.The fear of violence.It wouldn´t be acceptable behaviour for man. No one has spoken out,no one dares to say that this was a cowardly act and that this woman is a disgrace to ALL who work in the field dealing with controlling and detaining violent men.No,as a human,period.One man killed one female guard with her own stick and made the other woman run for the hills. Equal pay...?¨

None of them had any business working as prison guards,they should qoute"Be at home,slaving away at the kitchen or taking care of the kids."Rather that,then a life wouldn´t be lost due to hubris,budget-cuts or misguidance. YOU might feel that since you can take on men,all women can.They can´t. You might feel as though you perform a job as well as a man,which you might do,maybe alot better,all women deserve equal pay.They do not.

[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

Jenzen. Grow up. Women not being prison guards is an asinine argument for women not being able to work PERIOD.

[–] CaptainSexMachine 13 years ago

A bit off topic, but I'm very curious, how did you manage to fill your shoe with your own blood after just 19 miles running? Did you have a bad toenail? Did you step in something that cut you?

More power to you by the way, one day I'm going to get a girlfriend just like you ;)

[–] mighty_frogman 13 years ago

What do you want? A medal?

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] BrotherZed 13 years ago

Freak, that's the dumbest post I've seen in a while.

Also, you could find a female powerlifter who is strong enough to carry the gear a SEAL team member has to, but could she carry it 20 miles before she got exhausted like a SEAL might have to. You probably don't know anything about athletics, but powerlifters/bodybuilders tend to have absolutely terrible cardio. They simply have so much muscle on their frame that their body can't feed it all enough oxygen. You see this often in MMA, a guy who looks like a superhero but runs completely out of gas in one round and loses the fight.

I will admit freely that I am no soldier, but I do know that the key to being an elite soldier isn't your benchpress but your endurance. The physical requirements of the Special Forces are more like that of the Ironman Triathlon (while carrying a pack) than the Worlds Strongest Man competition.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] BrotherZed 13 years ago

First of all, you clearly didn't read or are not capable of understanding what I wrote. I never said that women should be banned from special forces. I do wholeheartedly believe that women are not as physically capable as men, but there are likely to be some exceptional women that could pass the test. As it is, it is only a small percentage of men that can pass those tests and it would be a much smaller percentage of women but they should have their chance.

Also, I didn't say woman bodybuilders. I just said bodybuilders and used men as an example. The more raw muscle mass you have, the greater the strain it puts on your cardio. This is a simple and known fact that is beyond dispute. Bodybuilders train to put on as much muscle mass as they can get, therefore their cardio will suffer. You simply can not dispute that.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] neilbus-1 13 years ago

...You, sir, are my idol.

[–] cms-298-47069 13 years ago

Make me a sandwich..