Plot Hole?


I just watched this movie again for the first time probably since it came out on DVD, and I do enjoy it, even though it has some problems. The one main problem I see is that they don't mess with everyone every night. So wouldn't the people who don't get messed with notice the changes around them, especially to the other people? For instance, the couple who starts the night as lower class and gets upgraded to rich. They won't notice what happened, but wouldn't other people who know them? Or the clerk at the hotel who gets switched out. Unless they mess with everyone who is staying there or visits there regularly, wouldn't that get noticed?

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While it's not covered in the film, I'd guess the humans would have been preprogrammed not to question minor changes to their world and the other humans that inhabit it. Like a layer underneath the fabricated memories that tells them to accept what their eyes see to be the truth.

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I think they control as much as possible , including how many people each subject knows and interacts with. Most people were 'programmed' with a routine, and limited knowlege of other people, doing there own thing. For example , 'Fredrickson' was either also imprinted from being the boss to recently fired, or there was no Fredrickson, just part of the husband's memory. For all we know the husband and his family never leave that building, there memories were always 'at the end of the work day' and their 'test day' started with evening dinner.

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There are a ton of things that don't add up, like how everyone falls asleep in their cars and wake up again at the exact same time and it doesn't seem weird to them? These are moving vehicles. Heck, even if they all only took the subway they'd still see something was up -- unless there's a preprogrammed 'grace period' say. None of that is covered but I don't really worry about any of it coz I love the damn movie so much.

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First off, this isn't a plothole, just not explained in the movie. A plot hole, or plothole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that creates a paradox in the story that cannot be reconciled with any explanation. These include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole)

Second, I usually choose to make no problem out of something if it possibly could be explained within the storyline of the movie. If it is possible to change someone's life completely (the couple to stay with your example) and the people surrounding them don't notice anything weird, then that probably is part of the process of 'tuning'.

Third and last, I hate it when people get all smart and start saying something isn't possible (explosions in space, for instance) and hate the movie for that. It probably are the same people that say the movie is lame and boring if it is scientifically correct.

None of this is meant to be an offence, just my vision on film.

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about explosions or even 'sounds' in space its like "yeah , thats why its called Science Fiction , not non-fiction"

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+1 I'm pretty sure this is the explanation -- there are really two levels of programming: (a) the specific programs for each individual that relate to the particular experiments being done (this is what we see the doctor administering to various people during the film), and (b) a "global" program (presumably administered to all the subjects when first abducted or born in the City) that provides a rules set that governs how day-to-day life in the City works, which would presumably include not asking questions about why things are the way they are.

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^^^This seems to be the best explanation, although there is a moment in the movie when the characters comment on there being no daylight in the city, but remembering it from a long time ago.

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The one main problem I see is that they don't mess with everyone every night. So wouldn't the people who don't get messed with notice the changes around them, especially to the other people?
Not really, just take a look at the "real" people around you and notice how oblivious they are to the changes around them. They're "sheeple". Next time you commute to work, glance at the drivers next to you. They're like robots. Makes me wonder if these people really exists or if they're just filler.

_
Every person that served can be called a veteran, but not every veteran can be called a Marine.

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Messing with everybody would be a terrible experiment. You need some control. You need focus.

Also, it'd be impossible for the doctor to implant an entire city every few hours.

You are sin.

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Yes but the problem is they can't just change the memories of a few, they also have the change the memories of all that used to know them and should know their next identities... Like Karl. He knew John's wife but now she was changed to "Anna". So what happens to Karl's old memories of her? And the detective's memories of her. And her old band's memories of her. And everyone who heard her sing...

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the guy watches a movie with the setting of a pie plate flying around, unshielded, in interstellar space and wants to talk plot holes :)

the whole movie was a plot hole.

i liked it, though :)

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I believe that the city did have shields around it, because that’s the only conclusion that makes sense; for things like, you know, air, gravity and meteor deflection; in other words, for life support. Beyond that, you can argue that all of science/speculative fiction is a library of plot holes. How, exactly, did Victor Frankenstein animate his monster? Lightning? With rancid heart, brain and muscle tissue? Really? Science fiction is “what if?” and NOT “how did?”. What if—cars can fly? What if—cars can drive themselves? What if—our refrigerator can monitor our food choices, our food inventory and order food for us? What if—all of our family’s medications are monitored, refilled and delivered automatically? What if—when you or a family member falls and is injured, your home instantly analyzes the trauma, reports it to your salient medical providers and insurance providers and sends help? What if—your home and car are smarter than you are? Except, I hope and believe for the final sentence, all of those paradigms are here, today! If you don’t understand the difference between imagination and pedentry, please return to your comic books.
This is not a screed on you, jriley55. You get it. You liked the movie. Yes, you understand speculative fiction.

I think this is a wonderful film noire science- fiction movie, up there (almost) with Blade Runner, but the director’s The Crow I am putting as almost coeval with Blade Runner. The deciding factor is NOT the protagonist. Candidly, I will take Brandon Lee, in this role, over Harrison Ford on the best day of his life (and, in a dustup, Brandon Lee would MOP THE FLOOR with Harrison Ford, on the best day of Ford’s life, and I like Harrison Ford). The deciding factor is Roy Battly. Rutgar Hauer’s antagonist is, simply, better by leagues than Mr. Hand.

The better the antagonist, the better the story; so, in terms of cinema, the better the movie.

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thanks for sharing your thoughts kane. i'm sure you grok what i'm going to say, too, in response.

firstly, i agree. this was a tour-de-force, beautiful in conception, beautifully wrought.

there is the notion in sf, on a continuum to fantasy, of plausibility. arthur c clarke felt compelled to eschew any scientific 'improbabilities', such as faster than light travel, from his narratives. others feel & do differently. you could say it was a matter of perhaps taste, perhaps education, perhaps open-mindedness, perhaps appetite for accepting a fantasy, or metaphor.

that said, however, improbabilities can arise because the writer hasnt done their homework, isnt willing to work around the difficulties. it can, and often does, simply reflect sloppy work, ignorance, lack of respect for the educated viewer. often the stuff of which b-movies are made.

i'll give an example - when they unbricked the hull, they were exposed to space, and sat there gaping & breathing, rather than decompressing into an unpleasant but swift demise. now some people are prepared to leap over these things, others not.

the deeper truth is that any alien encounter we should imagine that we do not initiate would be certainly dangerous, not unlikely fatal to our species as an independent concern, imo. life-bearing planets are rare, their tree of life would be utterly incompatible with our own, leaving the superior technological culture, which presumably would not be tooling around in space just for the fun of it, little choice but to terra-form the planet to their requirement, leaving a small collection of our biome to a well-encapsulated zoo. so that is my view. others may have a different one. but it is certainly an informed view, one that can be defended.

my way to view this film is that this is fantasy, a dream within a dream. also a metaphor for the masters making the rules for the wise men and the fools. in dreams, other than that, anything goes :)

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"the guy watches a movie with the setting of a pie plate flying around, unshielded, in interstellar space and wants to talk plot holes :)"

It wasn't unshielded. The people who got thrown out into space through the hole in the brick wall; it showed them pass through an energy shield of some sort. Here's a screenshot:

https://i.imgur.com/9Uc9l24.jpg

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