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Spike: The Most Important Character to the Show for ALL Time Forever!!

posted 8 years ago by loui_b452
23 replies | jump to latest

While replying to another thread, it hit me how ridiculous it is that SPIKE is the thing that resolves the series conflict of how to stop evil. Spike. HE'S the one who ultimately saves the day in the end. Buffy wasn't too necessary in the final fight. The other Scoobies weren't too necessary in the final fight. Nope, good ol' SPIKE is the one who gets to wear the "Everything will be okay because Deus Ex Machina" amulet. The group would have lost if not for Spike saving the world by.....just being there.

It bothers me how Season 7 diverged from the bond of the Scoobies in favor of the Buffy and Spike romance. Even the Buffy/Angel romance didn't take away from Buffy's sisterhood with Willow or her brotherly interactions with Xander or how important Giles was to her growing as a woman. Nope, Season 7's gotta be about a "will they, won't they" with William the Bloody. They never even truly mended the bonds that were torn in Season 6, it seems. It all comes off as if they're just moving on and letting the issues fester. For instance, Willow doesn't feel like Buffy's bestie anymore. They were so close in Season 1-5 but in Season 7, they're just two characters interacting with one another. Willow was Buffy's confidant when things got WAY too tough for the Slayer to mentally handle. And when Willow wasn't enough, Buffy had her father-figure Giles to teach her how to make the tough choices on her own. And when she needed someone to tell it like it is because Buffy was too stubborn to think clearly, she had Xander. But...this seems absent in Season 7, to me

But why?.....Spike. Spike fills ALL these roles now. He's Buffy's confidant. HE's Buffy trusted source of clarity. HE'S that special someone to tell Buffy what she REALLY needs to hear (which is still wrong because he just tells her she's right and everyone else is wrong because I'm horny for you). Hell, what do we even need Dawn for? And what even IS an "Anya" at this point?

But, I can get beyond this. What REALLY grinds my gears now that it occurs to me is how SPIKE of all "people" is the one who is saves the day. The finale relied on HIS act of wearing the "We have to end this show somehow and are out of ideas" necklace. Not even Buffy and Willow's big "Calling All Slayers" spell was the answer. No...it was just a thing. A thing that wouldn't have meant jack squat because the group was losing. SPIKE was the one who really stopped the First.

I now kinda feel insulted that the writers, producers, and staff in general would allow this. It should have been the MAIN CHARACTER who solved the series long conflict of the Hellmouth. Or better, the 4 core characters we've grown with. It should have been Buffy in conjunction with her best friends and father figure who stops evil itself in its tracks. Because as we've seen year-after-year, these people cannot be stopped as long as they've got each other.

........But, instead, it's Season 7's favorite pet. A threat who should have been dealt with in as early as Season 4 but plot holes save him all the way until this crucial moment. WHY didn't Buffy stake this OBVIOUS threat in Seasons 4-6. WHY didn't Buffy react when he tried to kill her, her friends, and innocents?? WHY was Buffy okay with Spike running an illegal demon egg smuggling business and trying to kill people when he thought his chip may have stopped working or when he separated the group with intentions of Adam taking over or when he got together with Drusilla in hopes of causing mayhem and breaking into her home and being JUST AS EVIL as he's always been...

The answer? Apparently so he could be the crowing JEWEL of the series finale. Not "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." We need a REAL hero. "Spike: The Only Character who Really Mattered in The End."

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[–] violatorr7 8 years ago

The group would have lost if not for Spike saving the world by.....just being there.

That isn't true, Angel or Buffy would have worn the amulet. How interesting would it have been if Buffy were trapped as a ghost at W&H?

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

[–] nileqt87 8 years ago

The thing that makes me feel better about the finale (about the only thing) is that Wolfram & Hart was the hero of Buffy's final fight (nope, not Spike). I just find that incredibly rich in a spiteful way due to how AtS gets treated in the fandom.

Lest we forget that Angel was just delivery boy from Lilah with not a lot of information on the bauble other than the likelihood that it was dangerous and knowledge that it wasn't from the best of sources. Buffy literally didn't have a plan otherwise beyond get slaughtered and have Angel set up the second front with all of her baby Slayers (Dana, Simone and Gigi amongst them--once again, AtS comes to the rescue to clean up BtVS' morality clusterf- by dealing with actual consequences for crappy decisions). It was an awful plan where she didn't have anything down there on her own to actually win the battle. She was up a creek without Angel pushed into a corner with Connor. That evil law firm she thought she was so much more superior than Angel after he joined (not knowing any facts, not noticing that Angel has a much higher success rate at dealing with rogue Slayers than she does--lest we forget how she completely gave up on Faith--or actually talking to Angel about why he joined) was the only reason she didn't get slaughtered in the Hellmouth. She'd be DEAD without W&H.

W&H's motive, of course, was that the First Evil had a scheduling conflict with their own impending apocalypse. Buffy's last battle was merely a fly to be swatted, which rather is hilarious for BtVS to go out with its final, very impotent, incorporeal villain (who does little more than taunt and send around minions--its best showing was Amends) swatted by a much more powerful villain on a different show.

Buffy actually just got a lot of girls + Anya killed that needn't have been while Spike stood there, followed by Willow and Buffy robbing thousands of girls of their free will after Buffy just learned that the Slayer spell is a demonic essence forced on Slayers against their will that makes them less and less human over time, made her personally miserable for 7 years (remember, she usually thought of it as a burden while she tried desperately to hang onto her human life, not superpowers = fun like Faith!) and gives them a very short lifespan.

The only reason there was any interest in Spike at all was Lindsey wanting to play personal vendetta head games with Angel. Eve very much insinuates that Lindsey was the one who went digging up Sunnydale to mail that amulet back. Lindsey didn't give a crap about Spike. He was just a tool to make Angel doubt himself and the Shanshu (none of the other prophecies attached to the Scrolls of Aberjian and Nyazian Scroll have anything to do with Spike and everything to do with Angel, Darla, Connor, Holtz and Jasmine). Spike said it himself that he just wanted to take something away from Angel because he thinks he has it too good (talking out of his ass by not knowing anything about why Angel went to W&H in order to save Connor)--not exactly the sentiment of champions.

[–] The_Stranggler 8 years ago

Spike should've bite the dust after crush

[–] jsawyer44 8 years ago

If you look at this scenario a certain way you can see the amulet almost as bait which entices Buffy and Willow into activating all of the possible slayers. Without it they may have just cut and run, that is if the Whedonverse was in any way logical about such events. All of Sunnydale's residents have flown the coop, leaving Buffy and her coterie to fight the First Evil and close the Hellmouth. Giving Buffy a sliver of hope that the amulet could save the day, even if they weren't sure of what it would do, maybe cemented her decision to create her slayer army. This in a way compromises Buffy and Willow morally something that Wolfram and Hart would find deliciously ironic.

To me Spike is just the sacrificial lamb or surrogate for Angel. Buffy can't face the idea of a universe without Angel, her true love, so she chooses Spike the next best thing and the only other possible candidate now that he owns a soul. Personally, I don't believe that Angel would have left her to face an army of vampire warriors with some newly activated young slayers. But the writers on BTVS seem totally committed to making Spike seem like the true champion rather than Angel. Another case where a crossover cameo by David Boreanaz was wasted as he just showed up and after a brief kiss and a few jokes exchanged he gives her the means to victory. The inferiority of the BTVS writers is evident in their inability to write meaningful crossover episodes, something that AtS writers excelled at.

My final point is one I know that you've agreed with in the past and is that as far as I'm concerned the most important and most influential character in the Whedonverse is Angel/Angelus. His recruitment to help young Buffy starts the show's main narratives and AtS superior series finale ends them. Angel/Angelus's many blood (HAHA) relations are to me the most colorful and impactful villains on BTVS and AtS. Spike, Darla, Drusilla, Penn, and the Master as well as Angelus are the Big Bads who are connected to both shows in a truly meaningful way. They crossover to both shows and all at some time or another whether currently or in flashbacks lend substance and history to the Whedonverse, which otherwise would be totally stuck in a monster of the week format.

From the episode, "Angel" during the first season of BTVS the watcher is drawn more deeply into the vampire infested dimension that is Buffy's world. So to me Angel/Angelus lends some kind of authenticity to this show's mystique that would be truly lacking without his presence. It gives the show more gravity and less of the valley girl essence of the series provided by Buffy the show's heroine.

[–] burun100 8 years ago

I completely 100 percent agree. Undermining the main hero for the sidekick is a TERRIBLE thing to do. Sadly it happened to Buffy in her last two seasons however. Season 5 is the last time she saved the day.

New Doctor Who is still worse for that though. The Doctor has saved the day in like 3 of 9 season finales of New Who.

If I were Buffy and the Doctor I'd be embarrassed to show my face.

The history of vampires https://t.co/L5uNHeiDS2

[–] stargazer_1682 8 years ago

Season 7 was such a mess after the Potentials arrived. I don't completely agree with the reasons Spike became her sole source of support (you're right, because I'm horny). Spike's mentality was much more subdued for the majority of season 7, ostensibly in large part due to the weight of his soul, and feelings of guilt about how he had treated Buffy. I'm of the opinion that Spike and Buffy were the only pair in the sexy time montage, not getting it on; because that seemed to be the new dynamic they had achieved in season 7. Mind you, this comes from someone who did not like the pairing of Spike and Buffy at all, and their relationship in the comics is one of many reasons I don't care for the comics, and don't consider them canon.
The things of it is, is that Spike didn't take away the relationships Buffy had with Xander, Willow or Giles; he may have factored into the reason why her relationship with Giles fell apart in season 7 the way it did, but Spike wasn't playing mind games between Buffy and her friends to stir up trouble. She really didn't treat him any differently than she did Angel, a relationship that her friends often gave her greater leeway on, even after he went bad in season 2; though they were generally a little leery of him after that.
The truth is, the relationships of the course four had never been the same since season 4. They put a bandage over their issues caused by Spike messing with them towards the end of the season, but never really addressed them; so I guess in that way, sure, Spike was sort of responsible for light a very slow burning fuse, but the powder keg their relationships were resting on, was built and expanded on through their own lack of communication and interpersonal growth. Which is something they just kept adding onto after season 4.

I'm ambivalent about how Buffy prioritized Spike in season 7; there's merit to the argument of the danger he posed, especially once it was clear the First had been pulling his chain, having brainwashed him into a sleeper agent. Yet the rationale for keeping him alive, protecting him or retrieving him when the First took him, strikes me as less forced than all the reasons he wasn't staked before he got his soul back. He really was their next best asset after Buffy. No one else had the physical strength or stamina, until Faith got there; and it was never quite made clear who might have the edge between Spike and Faith. Everyone else was human. Woods had honed his physical strength, but still probably barely edges out Riley at the top of his game, and no doubt still doesn't enter Buffy's league. Willow might be able to compensate with magic, but for most of the season she's terrified the First could tamper with her powers. I believe there was even skepticism about whether or not she could even do the Calling spell, on account of that.
There's also at least some merit to the idea that, if the First decided Spike should be kept from them, possibly even killed; then that made him valuable for the Scoobies to have back in the camp, as an asset and potential weakness to exploit with the First.
I'll admit, the story with Woods being Nikki's son, and him wanting her killer - who had been established as Spike years earlier - was not a bad story concept, but came too late in the series to properly explore and resolve. Woods dragging Giles into his vendetta, upsetting the relationship between Giles and Buffy made the whole thing very bitter.

As for the final confrontation; that was just a narrative cluster *beep* . They didn't know what the amulet was supposed to do. I'm fairly certain it had to be worn by a vampire with a soul - and it wasn't even Wolfram and Hart who really had anything to do with it, I don't believe; it was all Lindsay trying to stick to Angel and to W&H, by disintegrating Angel and at best leaving him as a ghost, upsetting the deal W&H had just made with him, to take over the LA branch.
But that still speaks to the overall dynamic between Spike, Buffy and Angel, because whatever they might have imagined it could do, Buffy wasn't prepared to let Angel wear it and risk his "life"; and instead sends him off to setup a second front in case they fail - but it's fine for Spike to wear it. To risky for Angel, but good enough for Spike.
It is questionable why they even bothered taking the Potentials into the hellmouth, even with the plan of all of them becoming Slayers; because it did nothing to turn the overall battle in their favor, other than reducing the odds that anyone given one of them would die, and even that was arguably marginal. Not knowing the amulet would collapse the hellmouth or destroy the city, they didn't really have much of a plan.
It's only when they realize Spike is basically wearing a supernatural/nuclear suicide vest, and that it's counting down to zero, that they hightail it out of there, and leave Spike to martyr himself.

And all of it comes back down to what anyone involved in any of this expected to accomplish. In addition the lack of a clearly thought out plan for the Scoobies and Potentials, what was the First plan? It was all over the place in expressing its ultimate goal, but really just seems to seceding more and more ground to Buffy and the others, including digging up the scythe and letting Buffy take it; saying they'll take it back later, but never even try. It's not even clear why the First wanted it. It hadn't even made a real dent in the number of Potentials in the world, so it was extremely premature to be taking the fight to Buffy when it did.
My impression hasn't changed, that I think it makes the most sense that the First was actually trying to provoke Buffy into calling all Potentials; and that everything else was just theatrics to goad her into making that decision. What the First needed though, was a way to culminate that fight, so that once all of the Potentials were called, they could achieve some means of victory; so they would back off and believe they had won, so the First could slink off and complete the next phase of its plans, whatever they were. I think it would be fitting if the First was actually the one responsible for getting the amulet to Lindsay, for the purpose collapsing the hellmouth at an appointed time. It might have even been a calculated move on the First's part, it could have been Angel who used it, but the First might have suspected that Buffy would give it to Spike; both to protect Angel, while putting Spike right in the middle of the fight, after the First had gone to great lengths to stress a perception of Spike's importance. Ultimately it wouldn't matter which one wore it, so long as one of them did.

“Oh, it was the horse.... I'm going to be King...!"

[–] stargazer_1682 8 years ago

I will hand it to you, after reading this thread, and responding, I happened to have Graduation Day Part 2 on my DVR, and have just finished re-watching it; and God damn it, if it isn't the perfect culmination of a season long story arc, and a pretty epic confrontation and battle sequence. I love how coordinated the graduating class becomes, in spite of any indication that they had even remotely trained for any of it.
The finale episode of Buffy, and the subsequent showdown there, stands in stark contrast. I watch Graduation Day, and in comparison, Chosen sucks harder than I've ever really thought possible. I'm not a huge critic of the series final, but I'm hardly an apologist either, but damn, Graduation Day just blows it away.

The antagonist has an objective, the core protagonists are united, if albeit at a loss for how to oppose the big bad; and then a solution slowly begins to form and comes together beautifully.
I know there's often discussion brought up of whether the series should have ended at an earlier point, with Buffy's death in season 5, or at the end of Graduation Day with season 3; and it usually gets shut down, because there are many elements to the series that are valuable and would be lost without the full length of the series, but I have to say, I'm torn. While all of that is true - though I can only think of maybe three or four episodes after season 5, that I wouldn't want to lose - I do think if for some reason the show only ran for three seasons, I would have been satisfied if Graduation Day had been the final word of the series. It may not be an ideal volume, but it's that whole concept of going out on top; and season 3 was no doubt their A game.
It's not impossible for them to have recaptured some of that glory, so to speak, but for some reason they didn't

“Oh, it was the horse.... I'm going to be King...!"

[–] flyerzzrul 8 years ago

I do think if for some reason the show only ran for three seasons, I would have been satisfied if Graduation Day had been the final word of the series.

If that were the case, how different would Angel be? Say Sarah went on to movies, I figure Doyle would still be there but would Cordy or Willow be the third? Would Wes or Xander replace Doyle? Xander would be interesting but I loved Wes. Willow intrigues me though. Giles showing up at times would be great, perhaps that's when Wes reverts back to clumsy like when his father visited him.

[–] stargazer_1682 8 years ago

I've said elsewhere that, had they been so inclined to move Xander to AtS, for whatever reason; in my opinion it would have made the most sense to plug him into the role Doyle played, as I feel the characters had more than a few parallels, especially the love/hate dynamic with Cordelia. It would have been simple enough that, while on his summer walk about, Xander begins to manifest an aspect of a demon side to his family that his parents never bothered telling him about; and with it came visions, that reluctantly forced him to work alongside Angel of all people.
Mind you, if I understand correctly, season 3 or 4 may have been right around the time Nicky's substance abuse problems started; so it's up in the air how much of a trade-off he would have been than bringing Glenn on the show. Considering they still kept Nicky around on Buffy, it may not have necessarily escalated to a point of writing Xander off, like they did Doyle, but it's hard to say.

Willow's almost the pro-Fred; I could maybe see Joss trying to bring her over to the new series, but it's hard to imagine injecting that kind of character so early into AtS. The cast and the dynamic of a more ensemble cast for that series grew over time, and very naturally. Done off the bat, I think it might feel too much like trying to clone BtVS; and worse, because it would be with many of the same faces, in the same roles. In the scenario of Buffy ending with season 3, I'm sure there'd be some trepidations of turning Angel into a Buffy lifeboat.
Plus, that would have been right around the time Alyson was making her own name for herself; so she might have tried to launch more of a movie career. Given their records while being tethered to BtVS, I wonder how Sarah and Alyson might have fared without such an extensive conflict.

For some reason I can't see Giles coming over to Angel, but I do wish he could have seen what became of Wesley over time; or Cordelia for that matter. It was interesting to see Wesley's proverbial Kryptonite be his father - even if albeit just a remarkable facsimile - but with Giles, I'd want Wesley to maintain his composure and highlight just how far he's come.

I do suppose a shorter run for Buffy though, at least with regards to ending with season 3, might mean Angel could have had a tougher time getting off the ground. Season 1 of AtS had probably the most crossovers; and it's hard to say how much Angel benefited from it's parent series continuing, and helping to prop it up, until it could stand on its own.

Another question would be, what would have happened to Spike? Season 4 saw his return in a much greater capacity; becoming a more thorough developed regular, and ultimately a foil for Angel in AtS season 5. Could he have done that on Angel? Be brought on as an irritant turned ally? Could he have been given some other reason to fight for his soul? An infatuation with Fred, perhaps? He took a shinning to her when they met later on, on Angel.
And what other stories might have gotten moved to Angel? AI caught in a fight between the government's Initiative and the private Wolfram and Hart? Cordelia dates Riley Fynn?
I've thrown out the idea in other threads, that in some alternate timeline, Connor and Dawn might have been born as siblings; so perhaps that could have been the case, with Angel becoming protector of the Key.

All in all, an interesting thought experiment, but I suppose the best benefit of Buffy continuing on past season 3, would be AtS not fundamentally changing....

Plus "Fear Itself," "Once More with Feeling," "Tabula Rasa", and yes, I'll say it, "Restless".

“Oh, it was the horse.... I'm going to be King...!"

[–] Happyspike300 8 years ago

Anybody could have worn the amulet but they wanted to give Spike a hero death and I liked it that being said even though I love spike but they focus way too much on him in the last season.

[–] stargazer_1682 8 years ago

From Chosen:

ANGEL
I don't know everything. It's very powerful and probably very dangerous. It has a purifying power, a cleansing power, possibly scrubbing bubbles. The translation is, uh—anyway, it bestows strength to the right person who wears it.

BUFFY
And the right person is?

ANGEL
Someone ensouled, but stronger than human. A champion. As in me.

“Oh, it was the horse.... I'm going to be King...!"

[–] IMDbGigalo 8 years ago

So any of the slayers could have worn it.

[–] DebLovesBeccy 8 years ago

He's Buffy's confidant. HE's Buffy trusted source of clarity. HE'S that special someone to tell Buffy what she REALLY needs to hear (which is still wrong because he just tells her she's right and everyone else is wrong because I'm horny for you). Hell, what do we even need Dawn for? And what even IS an "Anya" at this point?

Ahhh, I wouldn't go as far to say those things. It was obvious in the final season of Buffy that she didn't love Spike from the things she said to him and while she cared about him and saw him as somebody who was a changed man I believe it was in the same way I cared about my ex-boyfriends. I also don't think she trusted Spike as much as she trusted the other characters and that was evident in the episode where Spike was being set off to kill people with the song his Mother sang to him when he was human. To her Spike was always going to be a vampire and that was one of the reasons Angel had trouble trusting him in Season 5 despite being a vampire with a soul himself. With that being said I was a fan of Spike and was happy when they brought him back in Angel and I think he was better with Angel when he had a soul than he was with Buffy.

_____________________________

"So they say homosexuality is a sin....So is sex before marriage, lying, cheating, stealing, lust, pride, murder, adultery, gluttony, greed, wrath etc. Oh but you forgot those parts when you were murdering us and going home to *beep* your sisters, cousins and mothers."

[–] A_girl_is_noone 8 years ago

I didn't see it that way at all. I saw the finale as a big group effort. If anything, Willow had as much to play in the success as Spike since it was her spell that allowed everyone the super strength to get Spike to where he needed to be. Spike was the only one who could have been the Champion since Buffy sent Angel away.

Buffy and Spike never had a romance (on the show; the comics are a different story). It was unrequited love at best, and abusive obsession at worst. Season 7 finally had a resolution of what they meant to each other, but it wasn't anywhere near romance. Their friendship/interaction/relationship didn't really take up all that much time in the grand scheme of the season.

[–] The_Stranggler 8 years ago

I think Buffy fighting the army was nice too include. But Spike using that amulet always rubbed me the wrong way. As poem was dating on another post goddess willow going down would work much better

[–] loui_b452 8 years ago

I think Buffy fighting the army was nice too include. But Spike using that amulet always rubbed me the wrong way. As poem was dating on another post goddess willow going down would work much better

I personally would have liked them casting the Enjoining Spell again, like in Season 4. But, since the group is so much stronger/talented and now grown to have more members, it would have a MUCH bigger punch. Willow and/or Giles modify the spell to include every Scooby, alive and dead.

Just as the First used Buffy's dead friends to taunt her and tortured her living ones, Buffy calling on ALL their power would be the thing to shake the ultimate evil to the bone. She draws power from fallen friends as early as Jenny Calendar to as recent as Tara McClay. Even Andrew and Faith are drawn from, showing Buffy accepts them into the group.

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[–] stargazer_1682 8 years ago

Just as the First used Buffy's dead friends to taunt her and tortured her living ones, Buffy calling on ALL their power would be the thing to shake the ultimate evil to the bone.

Kind of makes me think of that scene from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, where the spirits help distract Voldemort long enough for Harry to escape - the likes of Joyce and Tara, Jonathan and others who have died, and are allies of the Slayer, or even just have a beef with it, join the fight. I mean, that would be the way to fight a non-corporeal entity like the First. Taking that further, rather than a joining, it could have been more of a... disjoining of spirits from the body; they take a calculated risk of performing a spell that would temporarily release their spirit from the body, in order to fight the First on the same plane. The primary danger of course is that it leaves their bodies vulnerable, requiring someone to stay behind to protect those undertaking the spiritual battle, from attack from Bringers or Turok-Han. I almost feel like there'd need to be a Xena like twist, where one of them has to stay behind and die, to permanently end things; which I hated with Xena, but could have maybe worked with BtVS in this scenario. Probably would have been a good way to have Spike go out and come back as a spirit on Angel; especially if it were a case where everything builds to make it look like Buffy's going to be the one to sacrifice herself, and Spike steps in, making his regaining his soul a crucial turning point that allows him to save Buffy when it truly mattered.

"You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink." The Cat

[–] loui_b452 8 years ago

I almost feel like there'd need to be a Xena like twist, where one of them has to stay behind and die, to permanently end things; which I hated with Xena, but could have maybe worked with BtVS in this scenario. Probably would have been a good way to have Spike go out and come back as a spirit on Angel; especially if it were a case where everything builds to make it look like Buffy's going to be the one to sacrifice herself, and Spike steps in, making his regaining his soul a crucial turning point that allows him to save Buffy when it truly mattered.

You, sir, have just written the canon that I will forever pretend ACTUALLY happened with the Season 7 finale. While I must as a BtVS fanatic, researcher, and wannabe Watcher must acknowledge that Chosen (and the comics) happened, I will always think of the moment you just described.

I mean, it just makes more sense in terms of fulfilling the core themes of the show WHILE ALSO fulfilling the Spike love Season 7 wanted. Buffy and her friends still shine but her "is he just a friend" is the one to let her live another day. Our main character is still the victor as she was one who came up with the plan, enacted the plan, and beat the First back. But the guy who was so perplexed by a Slayer having friends is the main friend who keeps this particular victory from being yet another one of her sacrifices.

And just to keep things even, before his sacrifice, Spike states that any Scooby would have done it for her and she knows it. But he cares for her and now even them so much, he didn't want any of the others to make the sacrifice first. And as he burns away, Spike simply chuckles "A Slayer with family and friends. That sure as hell wasn't in the brochure." Something he was offended by as a Big Bad is now what comforts him as he moves on to a better place................well, an evil law firm run by that one guy he didn't like. But, there's Fred!! That's always nice!!

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[–] IMDbGigalo 8 years ago

I thank Christ you people never worked at Mutant Enemy.

[–] stargazer_1682 8 years ago

Initially, the battle doesn't appear to be going well, when Joyce's spirit manifests, saying, "get the hell away from my daughter!" laying out a punch on the First or a flunky. She's soon followed by some of the other fallen, like Tara, Jonathan, Doyle, Cordelia (even though that might spoil "You're Welcome"). At one point Buffy hears someone shout, "behind you!" And she whips around to stop an attacking spirit, followed by the discovery that the voice belonged to Riley.
"Riley? What are you... No..."
"It's alright. It didn't even hurt... Well, that's a lie, it hurt a lot actually, but it's okay."
"How?"
"A mission. It went sideways. It's not important now."
And they continue to fight.

"You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink." The Cat

[–] sakura_droplet 8 years ago

I personally would have liked them casting the Enjoining Spell again, like in Season 4. But, since the group is so much stronger/talented and now grown to have more members, it would have a MUCH bigger punch. Willow and/or Giles modify the spell to include every Scooby, alive and dead.

Just as the First used Buffy's dead friends to taunt her and tortured her living ones, Buffy calling on ALL their power would be the thing to shake the ultimate evil to the bone. She draws power from fallen friends as early as Jenny Calendar to as recent as Tara McClay. Even Andrew and Faith are drawn from, showing Buffy accepts them into the group.

Quite a while ago, I posted a thread regarding alternate story lines that could've been used for various seasons had certain events/characters not been included (season 5 with no Dawn, etc) and this is along the lines of what I might've done with 'Chosen.'

Buffy would've had to do the final Hellmouth battle solo, descending further into it (ala Dante's Inferno) and facing her previous Big Bads in some way before facing off against The First in corporeal form, as Buffy (though I suppose you could've had The First in the Big Bads' forms, too). There's something about the imagery of Buffy fighting 'herself' as the big final battle that I think would've been rather striking. I recall SMG's stunt doubles had hoped that was going to be the case, via an interview from the offical magazine back in the day. Meanwhile, the Scoobies would've been above in the school but this would've negated the Potentials story line altogether. Either that or there only would've been a small squad of them as opposed to big army.

Just a Jeannie in a bottle...