If Chris "loved" Sarah so much then why did he try to rape her. He could see that she didnt want to do anything with him, so why did he try to force her? Was that just his way of showing that he loved her?
Now Sid,don't you blame the movies, movies don't create psychos,movies make psychos more creative!
His feelings for her was so strong at that point he just could not help him self. Maybe in his mind he thought that she would start to like it.
I think that is kinda a fantasy that some guys have, making a woman start to enjoy it and go along with it.
W.H.L.B.W.F.T.S.O.O.H.
Proud Lana fanboy!
The answer is in the movie, in a way. Remember the scene in which the beautiful, experienced woman in the shop tells Sara, who was being terrorized by her former friends, that she must invoke the spirit? Sara says, "But it made Nancy crazy." The woman says, "She takes it to a dark place."
There's another line in the film in which the same woman says, "It's both because nature is both - loving and cruel all at the same time."
The woman was talking about energy. Nature, spirit, all of it is energy. Some energy is more intense/powerful than others, but it's energy all the same. Love is simply another kind of energy that, despite what centuries of fantasy would have you believe, can be taken to a "dark place". Like water in a glass, energy takes the shape of its container. Chris, as a container for his kind of love, was Not a Very Nice Guy, so his love energy took the shape of not a very nice guy.
This was true even before Sara's spell on him. He genuinely liked Sara before her spell, but even then he was an egotistical, selfish jerk so his like of her took the shape of an egotistical, selfish jerk. This was evidenced by his spreading a vicious rumor about Sara because he couldn't handle her rejecting him for sex. His more intense like/love was really an obsession that he expressed first as small selfishness like waking Sara and her father up in the middle of the night, then by not taking Sara out to dinner on their date which would have been the proper thing to do, then criminally by attempting to sexually assault Sara, and finally as the guy who doesn't know or care how to reject Nancy sensitively and with respect for her feelings.
The lesson here is just because someone thinks they like you doesn't mean they will show it the way they should. Be careful who you bring into your life.
[deleted]
Thank you.
shareI agree completely, but what bothered me in the film was when Sarah said that she thought he was a nice guy underneath it all. I don't know where she got that from, because in he didn't show one shred of human decency in the whole movie. Even when Sarah forced him to feel love for her, he was unable to express it. If he had any good in him (like you said about water taking the shape of the glass), then it would have shone through when he had love inside of him.
shareI thought the same thing, but there were tiny beams of goodness with Chris. Very tiny. Like when he said he never loved anything before, then said ". . . except maybe my Mom and this little puppy . . . " When he and Sara were together in the car overlooking the city, he tried to be somewhat positive, though in a misguided fashion and motivated by self-interest, when he said, "You know, I feel the same way."
Also, he finally offered Nancy an apology which I thought was genuine. Though it was motivated by self-interest and was too little too late it was also the closest he had come to realizing the pain he caused another.
There were shreds of decency with Chris, but they were hidden under mountains of his bulls**t. He's the kind of guy who would have to learn his life lessons the hard way and with much pain caused to others before he finally got it.
Warmfire, I think you're right on about Chris's seeds of goodness; awesomely said. However, I disagree totally about the love thing.
Love is not simply an energy, it's utterly sacrificial and selfless; it IS better than many lovers poorly express it, for pete's sake. Sure, it can be taken to a dark place, but it is NOT a mindless form of energy like magic or nature; at some point in that dark place, it stops being love and turns to something more demanding and far darker than heart blood. Chris's "love" was never love to begin with, it was a damned stupid attempt to create love OUT of nothing but energy. Furthermore, rape is not a crime of passion or love, but of violence and control.
To say that Christ's love was simply negative because he was or that the rape almost occured because "love is just a force" is bogus to me (unless you want to refer to the fact that in this case, the so-called love was CREATED out of nothing but mindless energy, as I stated above; that in itself may be a partial explanation).
The reason Chris did what he did was because he didn't love Sarah, ever; magic can't create love. He was OBSESSED with her, imprisoned with feelings not at all his own. It wasn't genuine love: he didn't make sense of it, didn't think of her feelings, didn't even know WHY the hell he felt that way. He acted like a robot, not like someone in love. It was, if anything, a dark and nasty torrent of twisted power wrenched from his depths; this was expressed by his own quietly desperate statement "No one can help me" and Sarah's observation that "There was a look in his eyes, like it wasn't even him." She knew, even at the real Chris's most rotten, that he wasn't a rapist. It wasn't his real self, certainly not his loving self, which tried to rape Sarah; it was the twisted shell he'd become from the power not of his own being. Frankly, Sarah didn't at all deserve to be abused, but I'm glad she learned her lesson. That's what happens when you mess with people's minds, and THAT, I think, was the real lesson here.
I agree, Whitespirit. I think Chris was obsessed with Sarah more than he was in love with her. Rape is not above love at all, more it’s a power thing, a control thing. An obsessive thing. I don’t think the attempted rape had anything to do with Chris as a vessel, though I thought your opinion was beautifully stated, Warmfire.
shareWhitespirit, Sarah's spell didn't create something out of nothing. It took the small seed of Chris' like which was there before her spell and quickly blossomed it into an intensity for which neither Sarah nor Chris were prepared to handle, which is why I posted that his like/love became more of an obsession. Your statement that rape is not an act of love assumes my post did not acknowledge that fact when it actually did.
Now, back to love: I used to believe as you do - that love is utterly sacrificial and selfless and has a mind of its own. This belief got me into more trouble, let me tell you. The truth is, love, as with any energy/emotion, can only manifest itself into a behavior. (Otherwise, what would be the point?) As we all know, humans are flawed, which means our love behavior will be shaped by our flaws.
Finally, I must add that to say Chris' behavior had nothing to do with him is one of the most common mistakes people make in judging another's character. Sarah's spell on him was strictly to intensify his feelings for her. Notice the spell didn't specify how he was to express them. He still had free will as to how he was going to behave. Chris' post-spell selfishness was consistent with his pre-spell character. Judging by the way Chris behaved throughout the story, these are behaviors he would have exhibited eventually - if not toward Sarah, then toward someone else he genuinely fell in love with in the future - because that's who Chris was.
As Maya Angelou once wisely pointed out, when someone shows you who they are, you should believe them the first time.
I think you guys are also missing a pretty big factor. It was Sarah's Karma. Remember what the women who owned the store said? "Whatever you put out, you get back times three."
Sarah was trying to manipulate somebody else and her magic started corrupting Chris. She had to learn that putting a spell on Chris and making him artificially love her wasn't enough and it wasn't fair. It was Sarah's spell coming back to her times three.
"If a Soldier's pride means hurting one another, I don't want it..."
That's a good point, Jupiter Storm, but I think the OP wanted to know why, if it was love that would come back times three, it would come back in a non-loving fashion. The attempted rape was as much a sign of who Chris was as it was Sarah's karma.
shareOr, maybe it wasn't the "love" coming back times three; maybe it was the underlying controlling aspect and taking Chris by force coming back to haunt Sarah. As an above poster said, rape is about control, and we got to see in the movie (especially in the scene at Mass) how much Sarah enjoyed having control over Chris as a result of her spell.
shareNo, don't think so.
Jupiter, that's a perfect explanation.
I'm well-aware, Fire, that he had attraction for her. But what the spell unleashed was not love, not even for him; it was a dummmy-creating, vacant-eyed puppetry that turned the robot violent. Fail.
"He still had free will as to how he was going to behave"
Yeah right. Barely.
I don't agree at all. All you've done is cite tidbits of Chris' so-called goodness, all of which, as you've already admitted are motivated by self-interest.
He loves his mom. Big whoop. 99.9% of the world's population can claim the same. And as far as the puppy, sociopaths often fixate on their love of & connection with animals as proof of their goodness. Ever watch the Sopranos? Then you'll recall Tony often waxed sentimental about ducks, dogs, & horses.
Chris apologized to Nancy out of fear. He proved himself throughout the film to be narcissistic, misogynistic, deceitful, & cruel.
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."
Actually bunny, most rapists have terrible relationships with their moms and sociopaths often harm animals first. Failed argument.
shareYou also have to think that this is SARA'S opinion. A teenaged, inexperienced opinion. Chris did seem sort of like a nice guy to her - or at least having the potenial to be. Think to the scene where the two meet; he's friendly and certainly acts nice there. Plus, he acts nice to Sara at the party they were at. So, it's easy to see why Sara would think he has potenial to be a nice guy. She might even blame his "jerky" behaviour on her rejection of him, and definitly blamed herself for everything that happened after she did her spell. Also, the scene you're referring to happened *right* after Chris was killed. So, in addition to everything I already said, Sara was cleary very emotional, and felt extremly gulity for everything that had happenned.
shareWarmfire, what a brilliant post on love. I just wanted to refer you to a quote from Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye -- it's about love, and you may already know it. She wrote "Love is never any better than the lover," which is basically what you just said. I thought you might like to have the quote.
shareI thought Warmfire's post was great too BUT I think what Chris did was WAY out of character. Yes--I know he was under a spell but come on--rape a girl he supposedly loves???? The guy was a jerk but not THAT much of one. Also Ulrich is a terrible actor so I didn't know how to react to anything he did.
shareThanks, guys, for all the compliments about my post.
Preppy-3, you'd be surprised at how even some nice guys, let alone jerks, can turn Not So Nice. One of my ex-boyfriends was an incredibly nice guy, and no one would ever believe that while we were together he tried to rape me. I couldn't believe it, either, and I was there. (This is the first time I've ever said anything about this at all and will probably be the last.) While the act of his attempted rape was obviously not a loving behavior, to this day I have no doubt that he genuinely loved me, nor has anyone who knew us expressed any such doubt of his love for me. Attempted rape is more common than you might think. To me, it almost always seems "out of character" even in real life because, really, how can you tell who will try to rape someone and who won't?
I'm so sorry that happened, Fire. He may have loved you, but that wasn't a product of love, it was a dangerous flaw in his character that had to do with pain-lust, control, or anger.
shareWow, well stated. Warmfire.
shareGreat post! This is why I love that old imdb posts were imported here.
share@k_dog77803
Oh, you've got us men all figured out!!! What a sexist thing to say
....and also, he was under a spell. The whole 'attempted rape' was an example of everyone's spells backfiring on them. She acted like she was in control, but she wasn't and the spell got out of hand. And he even says to her before the attack that he 'doesn't think, he just feels'.
share[deleted]
I felt it was just part of the spell. She didn't want spiritual love or selfless love from him, she wanted possessive love. She wanted him to be hers and she got what she asked for even if she didn't get what she wanted. That is the risk of magic.
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Easy to answer. His obsession got the better of him.
I'm just a guy that likes horror flicks.
You would be surprised to know how many rapist or would-be rapists try to justify their actions as "love".
Chris didn't felt in love perse, he got an "obsesion" with Sarah that could be confused with love at the beginning, but it was more about "posession".
Chris was innocent. He had what is called a "Thrall" placed on him. A thrall is basically a spell forcing someone's love. It's not true love, but rather causes the person to be obsessed. When Chris tried to rap Sarah it was not his fault but was a consequence of the spell. It's actually Sarah's fault as she was the one who put the spell on him.
Believe it or not, this little scene in the movie is just one of a long line of similar tales or folklore about women who put love spells on men and then are harmed as a consequences. For more info, see my blog on thralls below.
Thrall
http://thedemoniacal.blogspot.com/2010/04/thrall.html
Every Girl With A Henna Tattoo And A Spice Rack Thinks She's A Sister To The Dark Ones.
A spell was put on him. He became obsessed with her. All he could do his think about her. He tried to rape her because she was pulling away and he was obsessed with her. He never loved her or even cared about her. The spell made him believe she was everything to him.
Clark's destiny = Superman, Lex Luthor & Lois Lane.
Was that just his way of showing that he loved her?
[deleted]
technically Sarah was raping him in a way. yeah he fancied her but when she rejected him he was likely going to move on to the next girl that took his fancy. i mean if you swapped the roles around with Chris casting a love spell like that on Sarah it would be considered rape as well. and of course Nancy as good as raped him as well, pretending to be Sarah so he would sleep with her.
http://betterwithbob.blogspot.com/
Yes, very few people get that. What Sarah did was place a "thrall" on him. It creates an obsession within the person. And yes Nancy did attempt to rape him as she used her power to make him think he was going to have sex with Sarah. She did this knowing that he was still under Sarah's thrall and that he wouldn't resist her. He made it very clear that he didn't want to have sex with Nancy.
Every Girl With A Henna Tattoo And A Spice Rack Thinks She's A Sister To The Dark Ones.
I always thought it was because the spell didn't really make him in 'love' with her, but obsessed with her.
share