MovieChat Forums > Crimson Tide (1995) Discussion > The racial subtext, was it necessary?

The racial subtext, was it necessary?



I like this movie a lot and it has stood the test of time well but what almost ruins the entire film was near the end when they both sit down facing each other at the com and Hackman brings up the horse discussion from earlier. Implying that the horses are the best because they are white, it just felt like it was a deciding factor in his hostility towards Washington's character, and therefor undermined his entire standing as Captain.


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I completely agree. I didn't see any point to it.

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of course it was necessary!

The movie was initially thought as to be racial education program with additional action content.

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I didnt get that either especially when there was a black guy (Westerguard) standing up for the Captain.

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I myself am a non-white (in a majority white nation) and I didn't pick up any racial ill-will towards Hunter.

Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.

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Don't you mean "Soccer moms"?

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There was nothing racial in how Ramsey treated Hunter. The other officers when Hunter met them mentioned how Ramsey just flat out hates XO's in general and goes through them quickly. I think the line was "took out what? 8 or 9 XO's in 94"


-"It's in the net! They score! They score! The 'Hawks win the Stanley Cup!" - John Wiedeman WGN 720

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I honestly think this is looking into it too much.
Bear in mind it's a popcorn film. They're already dealing with a heavy topic and wouldn't put an uncomfortable subtext in.

It's coincidental and shows people's reaction to race and looking for racism when it's not there.
The same kind of people who think it's out of order for schools to have 'Blackboards' because of the name when it's just a word utterly unrelated to racism.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

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Blackboards are boards. Black boards. Boards that are black. Y'know, there are black PEOPLE, too.

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And the walls are painted white.
And the chalk is white.
And even the copy machine paper... is white.

This, my friend, is a white devil's conspiracy!

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It gives the captain's character some edge and makes it more credible, whether we choose to agree with him or like him (or not). I think it fits Ramsey's character as a veteran captain who grew up in the south, which probably makes him somewhat racist and impatient towards the younger black open minded XO when things get very tense. if you remember he seems to like him in the beginning.

Anyway, it is only implied once in the movie, so I dont think it should be taken too seriously.

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I'm going to agree that it was necessary just for the sake of showing us viewers how tense the situation was, and the show of characters between Protagonist/Antagonist. The racial outlook is all dependant on the viewers themselves. I never once felt this movie was racial, and if that brought up those emotions for those who posted here, thats your prerogative. I can't even picture it because one of the officers who backed up the Captain is black, lol! But to me it was obvious the producers who made this movie wanted the viewers to think for themselves, which it did for me.

At the start and throughout, the movie never once implied or set a subplot of "racism." This movie just engeniusly created a story from beginning to end about the Struggle of schools of mind and opinion; especially with a medium (Naval Military) where Command Structure depends on utmost respect from its subordinates regardless of feelings/opinion. The movie showed me what it truly means to stand up when you think there is something wrong, and the uphill battle when you decide to stand up for your beliefs. Whether someone is right or wrong is arbitrary except where law is established and clear, especially in this age and time. But if your willing to bend the rules, this movie shows just how messy it can get, and the reprecussions it can potentially cause in the end. But in this instance, You can say both Main Characters are right! And were dependant on the Naval rules/regulation, experience/or lack, and their training. The white horses subtext was just added at the "endgame" (chess-speak) to strengthen that theme.

I could write an essay about this but I'll just say, in society we see that all the time; differences in sides, train of thoughts, and opinions, etc. It's always a tough battle when you decide to stand up for yourself and what you believe in!

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I've always thought that particular line was very racist and I'm surprised to know that so many people didn't see it that way. So I guess that it's really up to interpretation.

Personally, I never gave that line much thought. It seemed just like something Ramsay would say to upset Hunter at a very tense moment, as he was certainly not expecting that reply. The line also gave Ramsay an opportunity to finally admit at that great scene at the end that Hunter was right - "about the horses". Even though we all know that Ramsay is referring to the whole situation that happened undersea, he never says it out loud, choosing to concede (verbally) only that Hunter beat him on the horse training issue.

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