MovieChat Forums > Fire in the Sky (1993) Discussion > an idea i had, open mind needed.

an idea i had, open mind needed.


ok, i had an idea years ago that make alot of sense. hear me out and let me know what u think. ok, what if aliens are humans? but humans from many many years into the future? if we did evolve from monkeys then surely we will continue to evolve. most pictures af aliens we see have two arms , two legs, one head etc so it seems very possible that we could continue to evolve and at some point will look like aliens (greys etc). at this point in the far future where humans look like aliens, we also have the means to travel through time? UFO's are time machines. we travel back through time to our present day to observe life all these years ago. we abduct people and research them to see what human life was like all these years ago! makes alot of sense to me. what do you think?

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[deleted]

did you miss the part where it said open mind needed? just thought you would like to know that while reserching my idea it turns out that it is infact a theory that many scientists have had before. well i'll continue to use my brain and enjoy coming up with ideas that many big name scientists have had and you continue to not use your brain and post dumb posts on the internet that make you look like a fool. your turn........

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[deleted]

thanks! atleast some people around here are nice.

yeah iv'e often thought about us being tiny organisms in an experiment. "aliens" could be some like arganism that take us away for the higher beings to examine.

yeah the the whole theory of time travel seems far fetched to me too, but you never know, it might become reality. even if millions of years into the future (thats what i like about my original idea, there is no limit of how far ahead in time the aliens are from). but you raise a very good point in that they neglet "bad" moments in the past. hehe they could be like time cops! but again interfering too much with the past could greatly effect the future, like you said. hmmmm my mind continues to boogle.

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[deleted]

An "open mind" usually means throwing out all logic and scientific thought, and it's no different here. I love when people start out with far-fetched theories with "please have an open mind", it's like "please no skeptics introduce any logic because I just want to believe whatever I want regardless of fact".

Anyway, there's alot of trouble in this thread. First of all you're assuming that aliens factually exist, this has not been proven on any level, let alone when dealing with the "greys". How you, and so many others, make the leap from not even proving they exist to pondering what they're doing here is rather comical. Well, besides that, it's also a mockery of logic.

Second, as the poster above mentioned, actual time travel within the same "dimension" is pretty much impossible as far as we can tell. The grandfather paradox is a big issue, but you can get around it with the multiple universe theory (look it up, cause there's no way I'm going to explain it here). Also, if these aliens time traveled all the time, don't you think our history would change all the time, with some of them interferring with something that would suddenly change how history turned out? The multiple universe theory takes care of something like that, but there would probably be some trace of "time tourists" somewhere in our past, but that proof doesn't exist. And no, anecdotal evidence about being abducted is not proof of existence. We can explain abduction and UFO phenomena without aliens (but try and tell that to a "true believer").

Third, why do "greys" look like us? SIMPLE! Because we model them after us, we are the ones who create them. All of the things that we construct come from experience. We have simple ideas, like that of a cat and a dog. Then we have more complex ideas, like in our imagination we can combine the head of a dog with the body of a cat. All human ideas and creations derive from experience and the subsequent simple and complex ideas that derive from that experience. Aliens resemble us because they are made by us. Some aliens look like reptile type humans, so wow, that just combines two ideas (a reptile and a human).

Aliens are just simple psychology, just like witches, dragons, and giants have been throughout history.

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[deleted]

"Time travel seems logically untennable to me. If time travel was possible, why do you suppose our friends from the future have neglected to address the injustices of the past? Why does the holocaust still stand, when the eradication of key players could have prevented it? To travel back in time is to change the whole space time continum, therefore jeopardise your own existance (the future time traveller). The butterfly effect is a good example of what I'm saying.'"


I'm ROTFLing over the fact that someone would use "The Butterfly Effect" to attempt to legitimize their pseudo-scientific musings.

That'd be like my claiming that "D.B. Sweeney is, hands down, the finest actor to ever grace the silver screen," and then saying "go re-watch 'The Cutting Edge' if you don't believe me!"

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[deleted]

He wasn't talking about the movie.

"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."-W. B.

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why W. B. ???? isn't that a Sir Aldus Huxley quote??? am i reimagining ???

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@wjgl- saying aliens exist is just funny. you HONESTLY think that with all those billions of lightyears of empty space full of other galaxies that we havnt even discovered, that we are the only living humanoid species? that is just ridiculous. there have been thousands of sitings across the WORLD of alien like UFO space crafts, that many people cant just be "making it up"

If you do good, you'll see me one more time. If you do bad, you'll see me.. two more times.

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[deleted]

Interesting post, we think alike, I also came up with this theory myself. Another explanation for the research could be genetic degredation that has to be fixed. A lot of physical features make sense to me when you think about evolution in space, low/zero gravity (muscles), not much light (eyes). The fact that these 'aliens' avoid contact also makes sense that way, they don't want to alter the timeline too much.

About the panspermia theory, could be true but I think evolution is enough reason for creatures to look alike.
I always find the wolf and the tasmanian devil a nice example, they evolved apart from each other. One is a mammal, the other a marsupial, they play about the same role as predators and they look alike in appearance.
If the dinosaurs didn't have such bad luck there might have been a humanoid reptile on Earth (some say there is, but I'm not going that far).

"Aliens are just simple psychology, just like witches, dragons, and giants have been throughout history."
Maybe you're right, maybe not. My views:
-Witches were just people with different practices/beliefs and people are naturally xenophobic.
-Dragon's, I agree that this is pure psychology, but possibly based around dinosaur bones finds. (look up the Ica stones for some puzzling stuff, maybe fake, maybe not)
-Giants might just be genetic oddities, have a look at the Guinness Book of Records, same goes for dwarves. There is always one giant and not a tribe or town full of giants. I am not religious but there are giants in the Bible.

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effix said:
"A lot of physical features make sense to me when you think about evolution in space, low/zero gravity (muscles), not much light (eyes). The fact that these 'aliens' avoid contact also makes sense that way, they don't want to alter the timeline too much".


wow, i never thought of that before. i think that is a great theroy. just seems to fit so well.

SALTERPT and EFFIX, thankyou so much for your replies and ideas etc. really great to hear them. im so tired right now i just cant think straight, but when i have had a chance to think ill post some more ideas on the subject here.

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-Witches were just people with different practices/beliefs and people are naturally xenophobic.

You're a little bit right here, I think, but there's more to it. If you're talking about the witch hunts of the 18th/19th centuries then there are alot of reasons why people were accused of being witches, I think alot of it had to do with people holding grudges against other people. For example, you'd accuse the woman your husband was cheating on you with of being a witch to get revenge.

What I specifically had in mind with the witch thing was alien abduction itself. There are records of people in the middle ages having almost the exact same experiences as with what people describe with alien abductions, but only with witches and demons. Basically I'm talking about sleep paralysis, which, along with that nasty practice known as hypnotic regression, creates probably 99% of abduction cases (the other 1% being flat-out hoaxes/lies).

-Dragon's, I agree that this is pure psychology, but possibly based around dinosaur bones finds. (look up the Ica stones for some puzzling stuff, maybe fake, maybe not)

I agree with your assessment that dinosaur bones could have helped support any theories of dragons that were floating around back in the day. However, I'm not aware of any specific cases of people finding dinosaur bones and attributing it to being a dragon (but this by no means means that those cases don't exist, but I've never sought them out).

-Giants might just be genetic oddities, have a look at the Guinness Book of Records, same goes for dwarves. There is always one giant and not a tribe or town full of giants. I am not religious but there are giants in the Bible.

True, but I had in mind the elaborate tales of giants that you find in Norse mythology and stuff like that. They were convenient for explaining certain geologic features of the local areas.

"A lot of physical features make sense to me when you think about evolution in space, low/zero gravity (muscles), not much light (eyes)."

One problem here is that you're assuming they evolved for years in space itself and not on a planet, and that they live in low/zero gravity as opposed to the kind of gravity you'd find on an earth-like planet, plus one would think that they'd have lighting in the UFOs and on their home planet, which would have to have a sun. So in and of itself I don't think that holds up very well.

My main point though is that the aliens are just a manifestation of ourselves, quite literally. Like satan is the manifestation of what is evil and scary (as opposed to being an actual entity), the average "gray" is a manifestation of ourselves as we move through this technological age. Perhaps we are seeing ourselves as clones of each other, becoming featureless and pale, with large, lifeless eyes representing our loneliness or desperation. I think the image of the gray holds alot of meaning for the pschology of our society today.

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[deleted]

You both have some good points, thanks for your input.
Since we're proposing theories and there is no evidence, the only thing we can do is make assumptions.

I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with Norse Myths, sounds plausible though, "A very big man must have done that".

Dinosaur fossils have been found in China in recent years, I think it's safe to assume that these are not the first. Chinese dragons are an old myth and some dinosaurs found recently have early wings and feathers like the dragons in artworks. It's very far fetched but maybe even a few 'dragons' (flying dinosaurs) survived the extinction like the crocodile, who knows, and then the last ones were killed by medieval knights.

No offense but "their home planet has to have a sun" doesn't hold up with me either, the sun might be a lot further away, they might have had to migrate away from their sun, they might have been forced to live underground or the atmosphere could be thicker. If your eyes are more sensitive to light you would need little light in an UFO to operate. There's also the possiblity that they altered their own genes to artificially evolve. Then again, maybe they wear helmets, and the eyes are like sunglasses or vision enhancing goggles.

I think just a bit less gravity could cause these (slightly more) slender limbs, more gravity could result in muscular, more packed together lifeforms with thick bones and short limbs.

"My main point though is that the aliens are just a manifestation of ourselves... for the pschology of our society today."

Good point, I'm constantly reminding myself of this but I like to think that there could be something truly alien in all of this, only one genuine case would be great. And to me it would be absurd if we would be the only civilization in the galaxy, but that is maybe another discussion. I agree that we shouldn't underestimate the power of human imagination.

Ahhh, xenobiology (or exobiology), what a wonderful subject, I really hope some tangible evidence will show up in my lifetime. It won't be long untill we can get pictures of Earth like planets.

P.S. Sorry if I'm mixing up theories about aliens and the theory we were talking about (the time travellers).

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i do find this theory to be somewhat believeable but theres on problem i come to face when speaking of this;

if they are humans would they still be living on earth? I remember way back in science class there was mentiion of our earth not being around that much longer.

so maybe humans finally made colonies on mars or the moon?

please be nice

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It would be nice if you would have mentioned the theory you're talking about. One thing is for certain, the sun will become a red dwarf star and toast the Earth, but that won't be any time soon (~5.5 billion years from now).
Colonizing other planets is the only way to make sure the human species would survive catastrophies like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs. In my opinion it's the logical next step, the only question is when we'll get to that and if we get to it in time (other problems could arise, nuclear/world war, pendamic, ozon layer). The only advantage of delaying it is that the technology for doing it will probably get cheaper. Maybe overpopulation will force all this in the comming century.

- That rug really tied the room together -

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The theory on this thread about aliens being human time travelers from the future is very interesting, and I won't knock it. No matter improbable a theory like this, I don't think anyone can say with 100% certainty that it won't happen, because in all honesty no one knows what will happen in the future, and time travel might actually become possible.

That being said, I personally think life forms from another planet being aliens is a lot more realistc than time travelers. Then again, both are in the realm of science fiction, so who's to say what's right or wrong. I just think that time travel is a lot less likely, and that other intelligent species in the universe is almost a definite.

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I had the same theory about 30 years ago..

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This was an aeon flux episode.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"Interesting thread. Time travel is impossible, at least the Back to the Future type of time travel. It is easily disproven logically."

That's hilarious. I'm glad there's consensus on exactly what time is.


"Without the dexterity of the human form it would be hard to do anything but survive."

Not very imaginitive.





It's very likely that time travel would need to take place in a space ship, considering that all objects in the universe are in motion. If you moved a second into the past without a ship you'd find yourself dying of asphyxia in space.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Yes, knowing how time works, believe it or not, is relevant to understanding if time travel works. Wild concept.

Since I'm lazy and don't feel like arguing this

"The possibility of paradoxes

The Novikov self-consistency principle and recent calculations by Kip S. Thorne[citation needed] indicate that simple masses passing through time travel wormholes could never engender paradoxes—there are no initial conditions that lead to paradox once time travel is introduced. If his results can be generalised, they would suggest, curiously, that none of the supposed paradoxes formulated in time travel stories can actually be formulated at a precise physical level: that is, that any situation you can set up in a time travel story turns out to permit many consistent solutions. The circumstances might, however, turn out to be almost unbelievably strange.[citation needed]

Parallel universes might provide a way out of paradoxes. Everett's many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics suggests that all possible quantum events can occur in mutually exclusive histories.[citation needed] These alternate, or parallel, histories would form a branching tree symbolizing all possible outcomes of any interaction.

Daniel Greenberger and Karl Svozil proposed that quantum theory gives a model for time travel without paradoxes. [11] In quantum theory observation causes possible states to 'collapse' into one measured state; hence, the past observed from the present is deterministic (it has only one possible state), but the present observed from the past has many possible states until our actions cause it to collapse into one state. Our actions will then be seen to have been inevitable.

Since all possibilities exist, any paradoxes can be explained by having the paradoxical events happening in a different universe. This concept is most often used in science-fiction. However, in actuality, physicists believe that such interaction or interference between these histories is not possible (see Chronology protection conjecture)."







Personally I don't believe in time travel, but if you want to build a plausible model for it the UFO's = Time Travellers statement makes sense.

That aliens would be so interested in humans as to make so many trips to temporarily abduct persons (why not keep them for breeding instead of taking so many needless trips?) seems less plausible than the "Anthropologists from the Future" scenario put forward by the original poster.

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I see that you are discussing this elsewhere as well. Visual aid time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/stickman/time.png

The spot at the top is where you are now. At the same time you exist differently in other dimensions based on different events occuring.

The bottom is the point you travel back to.

A new branch of time, one in which you travelled back to that point, is created. None of the other brances are altered in any way. (Consequently it is impossible to alter YOUR OWN PAST)

You can't go to that spot I marked because that is a reality in which you *did not* travel back in time.

Get it?

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[deleted]

"We only exist in the present moment, if we existed in the past or in other demensions we would be experiencing them. The fact that we are not experiencing them proves that they do not exist."

This makes no sense. The inability to percieve something does not disprove its existence.

You are standing on a room and see a vase on a table in front of you.

You are then tied to a chair and blindfolded.

You have no way of percieving the vase, but it still exists.

Hate to go all scifi nerd but see if you can find a copy of the novella "Doomship" by Frederik Pohl and Jack Williamson. It deals with a similar concept.. (If you are at a college campus you could probably find it in the 1974 World's Best SF Anthology (ISBN: 0451001109) )

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[deleted]

The "you can't go here" spot I marked on the gif *is* no longer your own past, nor are any other points that don't lead to the "you are here" point at the top.
Nor can you travel back to your old timeline from the past. You can only travel when travelling forward) from the point in the past you travelled to, to points that branch from the red line.

What does any of that have to do with making time travel impossible?

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[deleted]

I think this is veering toward a religious discussion which I am not interested in participating in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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[deleted]

Here is why IMO aliens are most likely not we humans from the future:

Where is the cure for cancer, heart disease etc. - which benign humans from the future would almost certainly have given us to have set aside such unnecessary pain, grief and loss which so many of us still currently suffer from? It would be inhuman to know the cure for cancer and not pass it on, as soon as possible to others!

Humans from the future would surely be good enough to give us the cures which we now so desperately still continue to seek. And this is just one of many reasons why it is far more likely that we are being occasionally visited by alien races from alien star systems, having superior intergalactic travel abilities. They did, after all, have a head start on us given that the universe is 4 times older than our planet.


-
Sandwiched between The Principle of Mediocrity & Rare Earth Theory, you should see The Fermi Paradox

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i considered this as well..
only problem is, if we are their past.. wouldnt coming back and being seen mess up their timeline a bit? so much of our culture and ideas these days is due to thinking about aliens.. star trek.. i mean.. its a bit of a paradox
unless.. of course.. nearly all of humanity dies and theres only a few left.... theyd probably have to start over from the beginning.. so messing with our time prolly wouldnt do much damage...
but no.... yeah.. lol.. no idea.

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Unfortunately, right now the study of time travel and its potential seems highly unatainable and new for us to simply count it out. Science has advanced so rapidly in recent years and discoveries have been made that would seem impossible to us decades ago I don't think anyone can logically make such bold claims against it.
I find it all very fascinating and I really enjoy reading some of the ideas that others have presented. A few absolute suggestions bother me by naysayers of the science. Considering one of the most intelectual beings on the planet Dr. Stephen Hawking, would spend so much time on the subject suggests to me that there must be something more to it than some of you give it credit. There are many paradoxes that cannot truly be resolved without experimentation so to take these as fact would be foolish as well. A couple of points to consider

Stephen Hawking points out that time travel could be possible through the use of a vessel and wormholes. This gives a reason why we haven't seen these "tourists" in our timeline. If travel is dependent on wormholes and not the vessel then it would only be possible to travel as far back as the vessel existed. Hence, no time machine, no visitors from another time.

A lot of the effects of time travel would seem to be relative and based on perception. Consider the paradox of time travel never being percieved by us merely because the changing of events would eventually eliminate the need for time travel giving us no knowledge of the events that transpired to reach that point. We would have no perception of change.

Whose to say that history such as Hitlers genocide of the Jews just wasn't inevitable. That time has only one potential state. This idea is presented in Quantum Physics which lacks the paradoxes presented in other theories of time travel but also describes a single dimension.

Just because a tale has been exaggerated or not, doesn't mean the context is false. Stories built on peoples experience of what was around them was presented. Stop assuming the cliches presented in movies and books. Witches, I know one that goes to my school by claim and practice. In humanities of human culture we observed Voodoo priestess of Africa that are taken seriously by the culture to have supernatural ability (whether true or not) as well as those made notorious in Louisiana that devote themselves to magik. Historically giants have been identified. Not cyclops or the 50 foot woman mind you but giants, like a poster before me stated that were merely unusually tall people. The large Komodo dragons could easily be exaggerated into stories of offspring of greater beasts.

I don't claim to know the face of an alien life but I do know that man has been consistently wrong in the past because he shut his mind to the seemingly unbelievable unknown. As scientists discovered microorganisms that supposedly "didn't exist" and as we discover even today creatures that would sound "unbelievable" living among us, and likely longer than us, in the depths of our oceans quite like the infinite of space I realize that I'm foolish to make assumptions about the vast reaches of the galaxy let alone belittle a man with an opinion that none of us can begin to disprove.

Check out this site that of quotes of famous people of note commenting on the existence of alien life. http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/quote.html

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Check out 'sleep paralysis' on Wikipedia, and cross-reference it with the concept of alien abductions.

A qualifier to the discussion above is to assume that alien abudctions actually exist.

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True, needs to be taken into account... still enough to theorize though

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[deleted]

I don't care if people think that idea is stupid. I think it's very logical. I actually had an almost identical revelation a while back. People who can't accept ideas like yours are just too closed-minded and ignorant to really consider the possibilties that exist all around us, especially with issues like this.

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