Something always bothered me.
Leland always got off too easy.
The dude was raping his daughter.
The idea that Leland was innocent but for BOB sickens me.
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MovieChat Forums > Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992) Discussion > Something always bothered me.
Do people think Bob was a real person and separate from Leland? As far as I'm concerned he is part of Leland's psyche and Lynch's way of illustrating the minds of abusers.
my vessel is magnificent and large and huge-ishshare
This, and the perceptions and memories of those who saw Leland do some of these acts. The faces do resemble each other (I do think the two actors look a fair bit alike), but this one is acting well outside what one expects of the one that one knows. Then add in snippets of memory people might have, for instance, if Lelan conditioned little Laura by making it too easy for her to walk in on him in the shower, i.e. busy --- "working" as stored in memory, which at other times of real work he often wore jeans ... Maybe Sarah caught him playing some of these tricks and had similar memories, heightened by her anger and disgust at him ("disgusting," "filthy," "long gray hair"). Then too, when people are really frightened or in some other state of extreme emotion like in the train car, they are apt to see auras, they might, I am convinced, have sense experiences that span a lot of time and space or bubble up from some collective dreamplace, where Ronette also could see the same figure.
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"About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters; how well, they understood
Its human position; how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening
a window or just walking dully along; ..."
-W.H. Auden, "Musee des Beaux Arts"
Do people think Bob was a real person and separate from Leland? As far as I'm concerned he is part of Leland's psyche and Lynch's way of illustrating the minds of abusers.
I always thought Bob was a real separate person from Leland until he died. I remember reading something about Leland being abused by a child by either Bob as a person or by a person who was being controlled through Bob. He was a part of Leland's psyche but on the other hand Bob also takes over Cooper's body after Leland has died.
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The music, dancing and singing is purely Bob. "Bob's in for fun... And the pleasures.", I think Bob was controlling Leland all along. In the movie you had the scene when Leland had the evil look on when he was sitting on the bad, then suddenly he was still for a moment. And then became sad. I think Bob temporarily left him at that point. As for "Don't make me do this!" it was Bob too, he didn't want to kill Laura but become her. In the series Bob feeds on Leland's sorrow, I think Leland really didn't know that he had killed Laura. By the time his hair turns white he's practically under Bob's influence all the time. When Sarah, Maddy and Cooper saw Bob in Lelands absence, they were visions, warnings. Bob wasn't really there. That's how I see it.
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@kimmo
Just to further this line of thought: when Leland's hair turns white, it is the morning after he kills Jacques. Now, I agree with you with what you've said, and also with the idea that Leland is now under BOB's 'full control', but I wonder why his hair turned white at that particular moment. I mean, the killing of Jacques is pure Leland, no? Why would BOB have any interest in killing Jacques, or in Leland killing Jacques for him? If BOB's 'vessel' is locked up, what good does that do BOB? Was that Leland's 'last stand' before BOB took over completely?
Please nest your IMDB page, and respond to the correct person -
the killing of Jacques is pure Leland, no?
Exactly. And for whatever reason, Leland has to admit this here for the first time. Remember his expression in that moment of silence after the alarm stops --suddenly nothing is pumping him up and he gets a look of abrupt recognition.
I watched Metropolis the other night and was struck more than ever by how much every single movie made since owes to that masterpiece. Remember toward the end where Joh Fredersen's hair turns white? He has just been confronted with all his foolishness at once --anyone who's ever had even a glimpse of her own can't help feeling pity for him-- and it has nearly killed him.
(Another Metropolis moment of the many in Twin Peaks: Laura, or "Laura" actually, is transformed from what she is to a numinous, yet dangerous, being through the ministrations of the various Rotwangs who attend her in the morgue, to the accompaniment of the snaps of the short-circuiting electric light; compare the makeover of Judy Barton in Vertigo, or the first halting steps after the accident smoke clears by Rita in Mulholland Dr. A couple of paragraphs that explain "numinous:" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numinous. One might also find a forerunner of the Caroline Powell mask in that movie, one of those things that let's you know you're probably not wasting your time. A really good youtube of Metropolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekL3VBD00W0&feature=related.)
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"The bonsai: the ultimate miniature." —Will Hayward, Twin Peaks.
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"I ... must prepare myself. I have to think deeply about sin. Will you help me?
"[sighing] Yes ... yes." --Todo Modo (1976)
Leland always got off too easy.... So to speak!
"I've been living on toxic waste for years, and I'm fine. Just ask my other heads!" share
To say BOB was not real is to ignore all the other paranormal aspects of Twin Peaks.
I do believe Leland became corrupted, just as Laura had. Laura immersed herself into sex and drugs to escape what she was going through with BOB. It appears BOB was ultimately preparing her as a vessel and he seemed to be succeeding. In her scene with Harold Smith, it looked like his darkness controlled her for a few seconds.
Who knows whether or not Leland had gone through what Laura had, when he met BOB as a child? It does seem that if he was as wild as that as a teenager, it would have gotten around, but you never know.
He did have his evil? side as he was screwing Teresa Banks, but hell, what percentage of husbands do cheat?
I had just finished the series and Fire Walk With Me, so everything is fresh. I agree with you and am just expounding on details.
Leland did come into contact with Bob when he was a child.
Now, I do think that somewhere inside Leland wanted BOB there. Leland does have a fractured psyche and chose to blank BOB out consciously but deep inside he welcomed him.
His hair turned white after he smothered Canadian J guy in the hospital. He may have had a revelation of BOB at that point and the revelation of BOB inside him which he tried to hide from himself.
He was a shrewd business man prior to Laura's death. I believe that was BOB and that is why he welcomed that part inside him. I drew that conclusion based on the series episode when he was in Ben Horne's office and pinched the fur off that animal behind him and stuffed it in his pocket to frame Ben for Laura's death.
He was acting his strange self when Ben asked him for advice and then in full sane clarity Leland tells him what he needs to do for damage control. Again, that is what I seen as also the BOB in him.
Leland, according to the series did black BOB out of his mind after Laura's death as he doesn't remember him until he seen the poster that was on Ben's desk and that is when he takes it over to authorities and we learn that his father had a cabin on Pearl Lake next door to that guy.
(I was disappointed that that is the direction of how the series went in who the murderer was, but I accepted it and moved on.)
Fire Walk With Me was a disappointment only because I didn't feel it added anything or brought in anything new, especially about BOB. The series left us hanging that BOB is now in Dale. So FWWM didn't fill in any blanks as to the mythology of BOB.
It was a prequel, but a lazy one. All it did was show scenes of everything that we all ready knew via the series. Am I repeating myself. I think I am. I had to rate FWWM a 5 because of that. I rated the series a 9.
Now there is talk of another TP movie or series or whatever and after seeing the prequel, I'm not so thrilled about it coming into fruition. I love the mind and direction of Lynch and especially his set designs. But FWWM is the first film I seen of Lynch that I have to wonder what he thought he was achieving with it on any level. Maybe he created it just for a quick buck. I hope if another TP does come out it's with a lot more thought and focus on the BOB mythology.
Agree with all you've said here; just one question - why didn't Leland's hair turn white after he killed Theresa Banks? Is it because BOB killed Theresa? Why would BOB want her dead -- for the garmonbozia?
Sorry for all the compound questions. Just finished the entire series + FWWM. Dying to watch The Missing Pieces but I don't have blu-ray!
Remember we learn in the Pink Room scene that Teresa was blackmailing somebody, and word about that had got out before her death, at least as far as Jacques and Ronnette.
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"Bob's only afraid of one man. He told me once. A man named Mike"
--Laura Palmer, in her diary, Twin Peaks episode 16
"Is this thing on? [Taps microphone] Is this thing on?"
--Mayor Dwayne Milford, Twin Peaks, pilot episode and episode 27
Teresa did have Mike's ring. She must have had a date with Mike, and perhaps a future one planned since he was impressed enough to give her the ring. Laura put on the same ring at the end in the train car.
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"Bob's only afraid of one man. He told me once. A man named Mike"
--Laura Palmer, in her diary, Twin Peaks episode 16
"Is this thing on? [Taps microphone] Is this thing on?"
--Mayor Dwayne Milford, Twin Peaks, pilot episode and episode 27
I'm still not completely sure which is the more disturbing of a concept.
1) A man repeatedly raping his daughter since she was 12.
2) Somebody forcing an innocent man to rape his daughter repeatedly since she was 12.
Personally, I think I'm learning towards #2 being the sicker of the two, based purely on the fact that it means there were two rape victims each time.
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