Something always bothered me.



Leland always got off too easy.

The dude was raping his daughter.

The idea that Leland was innocent but for BOB sickens me.

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I can understand your feeling in relation to the series, but this film doesn't let Leland off the hook. Whilst I can appreciate everyone has good in them even if they are doing bad things, when you watch TP: Fire Walk with Me no viewer can surely warm to Leland Palmer as a character? He's more frightening and vicious seeming in this film than the general impression you get from the overall series. (With the exception of the Leland and Maddy's sad demise episode, also directed by Lynch, which is strong stuff really)...

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The general impression I got of Leland from the series was that he had more than one screw loose; I mean, humping his daughter´s coffin, dancing with her bloodied photograph, parading about to show tunes as a blonde in the second season etc He was always somewhat creepy.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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You made me laugh there franz!

Leland just went grey overnight in the second season, he didn't opt for dyeing his hair blonde!

When he jumped on Laura's coffin he was just lying there, not actually seen humping!

With the dancing and show tunes, I think there's an element of realism in that though...?

Would you say that Leland is supposed to have a somewhat middle-class, rather bad taste in music? He's not portrayed as someone with a real artistic outlet as such and his dancing to that type of music seems to me to be about him harking back to something in his childhood.

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I thought he had great taste in music ;)



"You got to bleed for the dancer!"
-Ronnie James Dio
Rest in Peace, my Hero.

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>The general impression I got of Leland from the series was that he had more than one screw loose; I mean, humping his daughter´s coffin, dancing with her bloodied photograph, parading about to show tunes as a blonde in the second season etc He was always somewhat creepy.

But all that made sense in the context that he lost his daughter. Many people would go insane having to cope with that.

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The idea that Leland was innocent but for BOB sickens me.

Um...too friggin' bad?

"FUNNY HOW SECRETS TRAVEL..." and "Facts are STUBBORN things" - Ronald Reagan

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"The idea that Leland was innocent but for BOB ..."

Who said that?

____________
"The bonsai: the ultimate miniature." —Will Hayward, Twin Peaks.

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BOB basically said that in the episode "Arbitrary Law". Of course that episode was not written or directed by Lynch, and so Lynch may have had a different take on Leland.

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If you had done what Leland had done, might you not refer to yourself in the third person? Couldn't something that began as a decoy or deflection --all that letters under the fingernails and whatnot-- turn into a refuge, under pressure?

And might not the decoy myth be enshrined later by either some who went for the fake, or some who were too close to the reality for their own comfort, or safety?


______________________________________________
Say, "Kitty is innocent! I swear, Kitty is innocent!"
--The Killers (1946)

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Leland is such a complex character open to several interpretations.

1) Leland was innocent, it was all BOB
2) Leland was not innocent and BOB was a facade to justify his repressed immoral desires.
3) Somewhere inbetween the first two. Leland was possessed by BOB but subconsciously allowed him to commit horrific deeds through himself.

Personally, I like the idea of Leland being an innocent but very flawed man not in control of his own actions, constantly having inner conflict. Incest is an extremely heavy subject and Ray Wise pulled off the perfect performance.

"How's Annie?"- BOB

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I always thought that Bob was Laura's projection of that side of her father. Certainly in the film.

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Mr Charles Grady, I would entirely agree with you in FWWM that BOB is seen from Laura's vision of him. It is her vision that colours the whole story arc of 'Who killed Laura Palmer?' in the series so I'd say BOB is there a manifestation of a mass subconscious possibly formed by Laura and her father.

I did give thought to the idea that Leland was abused himself, as he says, by a man, a Robertson and that man would have resembled BOB.

However, I also got the idea that it could have been the abuser resembled a clean-cut and 'average' looking Frank Silva/BOB, clad in more casual slacks and a shirt. The whole dirty and greasy denim-clad look BOB has is the perfect manifestation of a sick, sexual abuser. Not that I am suggesting that anyone who dresses scruffily or resembles BOB is themselves like that, of course! It's a visual manifestation of a certain fear and when we are gripped by fear I'd say there's a tendency to revert to childish imaginings or coping strategies. As the visual cover-up of her father with BOB was a coping strategy for Laura, right?

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^This.

One reason Bob is so terrifying when we first see him on the show is that he's the perfect projection of the "creepy" stereotype, exactly whom a child would fear most if told that someone wanted to hurt them.

The revelation that this figure is, in some sense at least, one with our lovable Leland, who despite his manic behavior still seems to be a good and responsible upstanding citizen, is just so absolutely chilling and terrifying. That shot of the mirror from episode 14 is one of the strongest in Lynch's career.

Episode 16 is kind of a mess, planting some interesting seeds that won't really be cultivated into the movie but also attempting to put a too-clearly-supernatural spin on it all. I've never thought about it till now, reading your post, but perhaps one reason it doesn't gibe is that Bob doesn't really seem to be a manifestation of all evil (as that episode more or less presents him) but a very particular kind of evil. The episode glosses this over by making him an all-purpose evil spirit but he's really the incarnation of child abuse.

I do think in FWWM the Lodge creatures are, in some sense, literal. Rather than completely roll back the second season's concepts, even if he wouldn't have established them (I don't know that he himself would have pushed so hard in the direction of the Lodge mythology had he been more heavily involved), Lynch builds off of the mixed legacy the show left. But he does his best to JOIN the physical and psychological. Not only does this create an ambiguous and unsettling world onscreen, it sets a pattern for the rest of his films as well (except for The Straight Story) all of which act as visual allegories with one foot in recognizable reality and the other in the otherworldly.

Get Lost in the Movies on http://thedancingimage.blogspot.com/

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"I always thought that Bob was Laura's projection of that side of her father. Certainly in the film."

How and why are so many people coming to this conclusion? Are there versions of Twin Peaks out there which edit out everything Black Lodge? Did NOBODY pay any attention to Leland's death in the series, and BOB's pulling of the "string"?

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Because Bob was part of the mythology - like the Devil. "I didn't do it. It was Bob" sort of . The series were more complex, there are lots of social issues there, with all their quirks. The movie concentrates mostly on Laura, and Bob gets a clearer "treatment".

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I like this idea. A friend of mine who loved the film and never saw the show held the same theory. I never would have come up with it, having seen the show.


But Leland is very much a victim.
Remember in the series when he tells Coop and Truman of his first encounter with BOB, when he was still a child? WHen you re-watch this scene, understanding what really happened to him next (he himself evidently doesn't), it sends shivers down your spine.


- A point in every direction is the same as no point at all.

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Twin Peaks the series seems to point the finger squarely at BOB, with Leland as victim... but I was never too sure about the movie.

I think the thing that confuses me the most is his line, when about to kill her, of "Don't make me do this!"

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I'm not so sure Leland "got off easy." He lost everything in the end. Also, I don't think Leland was innocent. BOB, I think, is very much like the Mystery Man in "Lost Highway." In that movie, Fred Madison "invites" MM into his life, and this entity allows him to follow through with an impulse that Fred can't admit to. BOB allows Leland the same "freedom;" to perform acts that horrify him. In other words, the potential is already a part of Leland; but his denile of it opens Leland to BOB's influence.

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The show makes it evidence throughly that outside of the Laura Palmer mystery that BOB was a very real, very horrible entity.
I surmised that the Ghostwood forest really was a "opening to a gateway" namely the Lodges, or gateways to extra dimensions. When Leland was a boy he lived near the Pearl Lakes, which are close to Ghostwood. Being possesed by an inhabiting spirit of pure id most likely;
A. helped him in life- as Leland's happy up moods and dancing seem endearing to those around him, and he seemed to be very well respected as a lawyer and member of a community.
and
B. completely ruined his life. One of the things that send chills though my spine is how the movie portrays Leland/BOB's past, but still leaved open to imagining how the time between his possession and the Teresa Banks murder play out. Remember- the same pattern of possession is repeated throughout the film and movie- the Lady & her Grandson appear, BOB/MIKE appear, visions, then death or possesion (or death by refusing possession). Leland ultimately ends up dead, as does Laura, Maddy, Earle and arguably Cooper.

The horrible, heavy truth of the matter is that there are extradimensional abstractions which use ritualized cycles of absurd pain, violence, rape, and murder to collect their sustenance and, presumably, amusement. The representation of blood, corn, and the alien word "Gamonbozia".

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Great bit of insight in your writing there. I would like to ask you if I may about what you describe well as Leland's mood 'upswings' - do you see these as part of a diffracted/ damaged ID?

His dancing and singing are not the same exactly as his job, although then again his kind of job does require a degree of performance and being able to put on an act, is that correct?

So the dancing and singing mania are not simply him having an artistic temperament and streak of creativity in a sense - more that there is some manifestation of a disturbing energy in the performing he does?

Is the dancing and singing of old show tunes etc. actually linking back to his childhood and in their performance is there a demented form of a sexual performance in fact? Does this relate basically to the Id as you mention?

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I think that when I meant "upswing" I was maybe a bit vague in my feeling on what that could mean. Throughout the show there are bits of surreal calm in the Palmer household, and it seems like it could be out of anytown usa. The morning Leland's hair is discovered to have changed his demeanor is unsettling, in a sense- but in another sense he is completely charming in the manner of how it turns out- and he immediately returns to work for the Horne's as if nothing is amiss. People noticed the hair change but his demeanor throughout the show is either portrayed with by dispair, rage/lust, and carefree abandon. Often shifting between poles like a true bi-polar mania in single scenes. To think people diss on Ray Wise's acting, he makes this show to me.

Insofar as the dancing not pertaining to his job- it was a superfluous, surface-level quirk that most in Twin Peaks had, but his (and the log lady's!) up front defining quirky trait in a town full of Lynchian oddballs is actually a signifier of a deeper meaning. The town itself seemed defined by it's quirks, to the point that there seems like dozens of times when Truman knowingly fills Cooper in on some funny inside joke. He fit in. Before Laura was killed he probably was seen as a Fred Astaire like figure in the community, which chills me even more to contemplate how easy it is for the defining quirk to be masked by it's true meaning....

The MFAP danced, and "there was always music in the air". These traits were signifies of his nature as an entity from the Black Lodge.

Leland's possession is of the type that is unaware, unlike Philip Gerard who needed special circumstances to become MIKE, where the body seems to be the same as the representative of the being portrayed in the lodge (you see the p.m. gerard body in the lodge in fwwm, and in Cooper's first dream). Leland's possesion is as such where there is no definite proof, especially regarding the episode after madeline furgeson's murder where he goes on about his day, that he wasn't in control all of the time, only allowing "Leland" access to his own memories and actions, which he says as much after BOB departs leaving him dying and finally recognizing the true extent of what BOB did.

I think, sadly, that Sara Palmer married BOB in effect, and the Palmer's were living with an evil entity for years.

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I disagree.

In my opinion Leland's sudden involuntary change of hair colour and manic behaviour were the result of the long-suppressed truth about BOB rising to the surface. It wasn't quite there yet, but it was bubbling up towards Leland's conscious, causing him to become more and more manic, until he was finally forced to confront the truth about BOB and Laura's death.

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I dont really see Bob getting much out of affairs so I'd say that was Leland. But the raping and murder of Laura I always chalked to Bob. Mainly because Leland seems so sad that he unknowingly raped and murdered his only daughter when he died.

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