“Dr. Lecter this”, “Dr. Lecter that”. Why all the bowing and scraping to a scumbag killer? Did they really need his help? The butterflies and the evidence at the first victim’s house broke the case. That was just thorough detective work. Nothing “Dr. Lecter” said helped with that.
shareI've read a number of books by law enforcement guys, they all say the same things about the really bad offenders...they are very often narcissists with almost no understanding of how real people think...Bring them a coke and a Big Mac, use their ridiculously outsized egos against them, compliment their intelligence and most of these bastards open up
Ted Bundy, murderous prick that he was helped out on profiling The Green River Killer (he was NOT 100% accurate but still, Bring a guy like that some junk food and hear him out...He probably knows stuff the rest of us could never understand)
Very true, detectives know it's very important to feed these self absorbed psycho's egos. In one example I saw on Dateline this serial killer was kidnapping women on trails to get their pin #'s was as narcissistic as humanly possible. So, the detectives would give him coffee, cigarettes, snacks all day long..along with listening to his "superior intellect". Anyway, this particular serial killer talked his way to the death penalty, all because the detectives knew exactly how to play the game in their favor.
shareInteresting, I see the value in that approach. Just in this film it seemed all for nothing. Clarice broke the case by going to the first victim’s house, finding the dressmaking materials then interviewing the neighbors, one who had weird exotic moths flying around his house. Even though Lecter gave clues to check out the first victim, it is fairly routine for detectives to look hard at first victims and their acquaintances. Serial killers often start locally with people and areas they know.
shareDetective work is similar to the fog of war. In this case they went through Hannibal's notes and thought they had the right Gumb in Illinois. They were shocked when Gumb wasn't there, remember when we see the lightbulb go off in Crawford's head? The fog cleared and he knew Clarice was in imminent danger! I worked in government for many years, so many people are inept it's shocking. I've even talked to an FBI agent who thought you needed a passport to fly to/from Hawaii to the mainland U.S. CIA people are impossible human beings, they're so cocky and untouchable. However, they often have the power to focus on only ONE thing and they are STUNNINGLY GREAT at that one thing to get the bad guy.
shareLol @ the passport to fly to Hawaii.
Crawford was a bit dim to not listen to Clarice’s lead, especially after recruiting her to the case for that very task.
To Otter’s point: Crawford sent Clarice in there because she was beguilingly demure and pretty, yet smart too. He would have smelled an experienced agent a mile away and refuse to engage. But put him in the role as mentor to an attractive young student and his ego overrides his reasoning.
But wouldn't someone as smart and manipulative have seen through the thin attempt of getting around him by using a pretty girl, and fed the girl misinformation or screwed with her mind as a way of telling Crawford to go fuck himself?
I should think he'd be more likely to engage with someone like Crawford himself, both because having a senior agent present would be a sign of respect, and because that senior agent might be a more worthy opponent in a battle of wits?
Oh, I forgot..the thing about these super smart serial killers is their really damaged people and once the profilers figured them out psychos like Hannibal Lector easily fall into their mind traps!
shareNope! Lechter never fell into the profilers' traps, he used them to his own purposes and escaped.
Criminal profiling was considered to be scientific hot shit back in the 1990s, but it's out of fashion now, even widely considered to be debunked.
But without Lector's help there would have been more Buffalo Bill victims!
shareAnd because of the methods the FBI used to catch "Buffalo Bill", there were more Lechter victims!
The FBI came out even at best, except that they won the approval of a US Senator.
That's the catch when you make deals with the devil. The FBI placed Buffalo Bill case as their highest priority. Similar to the FBI making a deal with John Gotti's #2, that guy murdered dozens of people and they let him walk, then he went and victimized people again.
shareOkay, you've convinced me that talking to people like Lechter can be useful.
But WTF, sending a student to talk to this extremely intelligent creep? Wouldn't they send an experienced and hardened agent?
I'm with you on this one, maybe the book explained why Crawford was sending a cadet..I remember Hannibal wasn't too happy about it either. Made for a good movie but never seemed realistic.
shareIt seemed kind of obvious that Crawford sent a trainee to interview Lecter in order to lower his guard. If they’d sent in an expert like Will Graham then Lecter would know something is up and probably not cooperate
shareYou're right about Crawford's methodology..I do remember one very obscure case where there was a murderer in prison for life, the male guard reported on his habits and weaknesses(he thought he was a ladies man), the detectives then concocted a plan to have the murderer interviewed by two women and he talked himself into the death penalty. This case was from the maximum security prison in Joliet, Illinois before they moved it to Super Max in Colorado.
shareBundy never really helped catch the Green River Killer. Robert Keppel caught on that Bundy was superimposing his own fantasies onto the Green River Killer. It was insightful into Bundy's psyche but not useful for the investigation. Bundy was hoping if he could "show" he was useful he might get his execution put off. That's why Keppel terminated the interviews.
shareYes, true.
shareActually if it weren’t for Dr. Lector they never would have found Catherine. Sure Lector was using the situation to his advantage so he could escape but he did throw Clarice a bone every now and then and that is how they caught him. They were bowing and scraping to a scumbag killer because the scumbag killer had information they wanted.
shareHe gave away Gumb’s location in his first 30 seconds with Clarice, ‘that is the Duomo seen from the Belvedere’
sharePandering to MDs is totally realistic, though.
Lecter have Starling the clues that Buffalo Bill must have known his first victim. Her followup led her to find him.
What I find strange is that up until Starling's mortuary involvement they had never found the moth cocoon in the mouth of a victim. I have to assume that he did not do this to every victim, otherwise they would certainly have noticed it before.