It started just fine, I was actually starting to enjoy it. But the ending suck. I can't be the only one who thought the ending was stupid and/or weird. Weak way to end a strong movie.
shareWhat were you expecting? What was it that you liked about the beginning?
I am beginning to doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!
Main character tells God to go *beep* himself and turns down the opportunity to spend eternity in heaven...and you thought that was a WEAK ending?
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What place was Mimi Rogers supposed to be at the end of the movie, some sort of purgatory? And what happened to her officer friend at the very end?
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I have been studying Bible doctrine for quite a while now and I can tell you without question that this movie does not portray the truth about the rapture, the end times (that we are in now), or the truth about being a believer in Christ. Not even close!!!! My pastor recently taught on the subject of the end times in a series called, God's Grace and Mercy Found In The Prophesies Of The End Times. It was such a wonderful and comforting message because it was about how God is not a harsh and angry God who is waiting to punish us and send us to the Lake of Fire, but the God who desires that everyone to be saved and be with Him in Heaven forever. God is a LOVING and COMPASSIONATE Father who waits for us like the father waited for his son in Luke 15:20 - 24. That parable is a TRUE picture of God, not the god who was portrayed in this terrible movie!!!
The truth is that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God and that He is the One who was judged and died for all of the sins of everyone in the world, past, present and future, whether they believed in Him or not. This is the free gift of salvation that He offers to everyone and the great news is that once you are a believer, even if it is just for a second, you are saved forever, no matter what!!! You can never lose your salvation ever!! This is called our Eternal Security. There is not one verse in the Bible that says we can ever do anything to lose our salvation once we have been saved. So this movie absolutely did not portray the truth about salvation!!!
It is only faith alone in Christ alone that saves us,NOT religion or being religious or moral. Faith alone in Christ alone, period! Religion is the enemy's invention to distract us from the only One who can save us, Christ. Also, whether or not, you are a believer, the only thing that we are judged for, whether we are believers or not is our deeds, NOT our sins. Our sins were paid for once and for all on the cross where Jesus took all of the judgement that we should take for our sins and paid for all of them IN FULL!!! Jesus not only died physically for us and suffered more than any human ever did or ever will again, but He also was spiritually separated from His Father (God the Father, His Father) for three hours while He willingly of His Own free will, took the judgement for all of our sins - every last one of them! And He would have done that even if there was only ONE human on earth who needed salvation. That is how much He loves us and how much God loves us as He gave us the very best that Heaven had to offer, His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ. It is such an absolutely incredible gift that He freely offers to everyone! God is God Who continually gives us grace after grace and mercy after mercy, NOT because we earn or deserve it, because we DON'T, but because of Who and What He is.
You don't make a lot of sense. If you become saved and can never lose your salvation, then when do you become saved? Does a one-day old infant have salvation before they are baptised? If not, then will that soul go to hell? If not, then do they even have a soul? Are you saying that you don't even have to believe? If so, then what is the point of our existence on Earth? You say that faith alone in Christ [alone] saves us, but then you say whether or not you are a believer... How can you be saved by faith in Christ if you don't have faith in Christ?
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Anyway, I believe this movie DOES portray a LOVING and COMPASSIONATE God. Mimi kills her daughter and denounces God. At the very end, she is still given the chance to simply say that she loves God and she can get into heaven. Even the hethen police officer that had never even believed in God simply had to say "Yes" when asked if he loved God and he went to heaven. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't invite someone into my house for tea who stood at the door and said they didn't like me...
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You become saved when you choose to believe in Christ and you are only saved by faith alone in Christ alone. If a one day-old infant were to die, they would automatically go to heaven because they are not at the age of accountability (which is an age that only God can decide for us). Infants are not old enough to hear and understand the good news of Christ and choose whether or not to believe in Him. The only baptism that matters is not water baptism, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You first receive that baptism of the Holy Spirit when you choose to believe in Christ and have faith alone in Him alone. That is the only way that you can be saved and go to Heaven.
What I meant when I said if you are a believer or not, is that Christ died on the cross for all of our sins, whether or not you choose to believe in Him. When you pass away and go to the judgment seat of Christ, you will only be judged for your deeds on earth, not for any of your sins. Your sins will never be brought up to you because Christ took all the judgement and punishment that we should take for our sins of His own free will for us to save us. And Jesus did NOT have to do that for us - He VOLUNTERRED to do that for us! Jesus is BOTH 100% man and 100% God. In order to save us, He willingly and freely gave up His deity and His independent use of His powers in Heaven to come down to earth to fulfill God's plan for His life which was to pay for all of our sins and die for us.
As for loving God, the only way you can truly do that is by believing and getting to know His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ and the only way you can get to know Christ is by finding your right pastor/teacher who can teach you The Word of God (which is the mind of Christ) and how to apply it in your life. Your right pastor/teacher should teach the Word of God by giving the historical context of a verse, comparing scripture to scripture and by going back to the original languages, Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic to get the true and accurate meaning of the verses that he is teaching.
Again, saying that you love God when you don't even know God because you don't know Christ or the mind of Christ (The Bible/Word of God) WILL NOT get you into Heaven. It is believing in Christ and having faith alone in Him that will allow you to get into Heaven and spend eternity with God the Father(not faith plus works like walking down an aisle, repenting of your sins,or inviting Jesus into your heart). It is simply faith alone in Christ alone because God does all the work for you in salvation, not you.
If the god in the movie was really portrayed as a loving and compassionate god, He would have been a god with integrity as my God is and allow her to go into Heaven, despite her sin because she had already chosen to believe in Christ earlier in her life and was saved. That is a loving and compassionate God; that is my God, not the false god who was portrayed in this movie.
My prayers are with you.
Man I hope your right right cuz I was saved about 17 years ago, and those bodies stacking up in my basement are really startin' to have me worried about my chances to get into heaven.........you sir are wrong. Getting saved does not give you carte blanche to kill.
"cat dead....details later"
www.blackcarmediaworks.com
You've gotta run the race, keep the faith, and fight the good fight.
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Sir, you are absolutely right when you say that being saved does not give you carte blanche to kill or to sin in any other way. We will never be sinless even after we are saved until we are in Heaven, however, God's Grace is not a license to sin; volition(your free will)is. God's Grace is the power to change. God's Grace is something that we do not earn or deserve but that He gives us because of Who and What He is.
What you are talking about is something called antinomianism, which is the false teaching that Christians can live immorally. The verses in the Bible that clearly explain this are Romans 5:20-6:2, Galations 5:13-22, and Titus 2:11-14.
However, again, if you believed in Christ and had faith alone in Him alone, then you are saved forever and you can never ever lose your salvation, no matter what you do!
My prayers are with you.
being saved does not give you carte blanche to kill or to sin in any other way
You become saved when you choose to believe in Christ and you are only saved by faith alone in Christ alone. If a one day-old infant were to die, they would automatically go to heaven because they are not at the age of accountability (which is an age that only God can decide for us). Infants are not old enough to hear and understand the good news of Christ and choose whether or not to believe in Him.
Lizzybizzy, I know for CERTAIN that I am saved because The Word of God states: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved! (Acts 16:31)If you have done that at some point in your life….the Bible says you are saved whether demonstrated you’re saved or not and whether or whether you had no experience to go along with it. It is not our conduct or what we do or what we experience that indicates that we are saved but rather what the Word of God says. I can also give you many more scriptures from the Word of God then what I have given to you in this reply that clearly prove that it is faith alone in Christ alone that saves us.(Eph 2:8-9), “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
You become a child of God at the moment you exercise faith alone in Christ alone. (John 1:12), “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, {even} to those who believe in His name.” (Rom 8:14-17), “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with {Him} so that we may also be glorified with {Him.}.”
Any lack of faith in what the Word of God says does not change the reality of your eternal security. Any bad conduct that you choose to do does not change the reality that you are a son/daughter of God and neither does your experiences.
(Heb 11:1-3), “Now faith is the assurance of {things} hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.”
God the Holy Spirit: (Rom 8:16), “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.” (2 Cor 1:21-22), “Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.” (Gal 4:6), “Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" (I Jn 4:2), “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.”
The Word of God says we have eternal life.
(I Jn 5:11-13), “And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” (John 3:36), “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (believe in) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
The Word of God says we have the forgiveness of all our sins.
(Acts 10:43), “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” (Col 2:13), “When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions.”
The Word of God says we have freedom from condemnation…and not our conduct or our experience. (John 5:24), “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (Rom 8:1), “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
At that moment of “faith in Christ,” the “incorruptible seed” of life resides in the children of God and they are already “seated with Christ in heavenly places,” (Eph 2:60). Isn't that great news?!?! At the moment of our salvation, we are positionally seated with Christ in Heavenly places and we can never lose that. We can only get out of fellowship with God when we sin, but God made the solution to that easy too in His Grace. Just confess the sin and move on.
Salvation is NOT by our actions or our own merit. (Titus 3:5-7), “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life.”
Salvation is SOLELY by Christ’s unique Person and Work as a gift from God. The Holy Spirit assures our hearts through the Word of God that we are children of God. (Rom 8:15-16), “For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.”
And the best news yet, sin is not the issue, Christ is!
(Hebrews 9:28) so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
As for your comment about the old testament saints, God was not unkind at all. God loved them and took care of them! When Christ died on that cross, He died for everyone in the whole world's sins, including everyone who was born during the old testament times, whether or not they believed in Him. This is called the doctrine of unlimited atonement. (Romans 5:6-8), “For while we were still helpless (spiritually dead), at the right time Christ died for the ungodly (before salvation as unbelievers). For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners (unbelievers), Christ died for us.”(1 John 2:2), “And He Himself (the Lord Jesus Christ) is the satisfaction for our sins (the believer); and not for ours only, but also for the whole world! ”God offers salvation to all men through Jesus Christ, (Titus 2:11), “For the grace of God has appeared (the Lord Jesus Christ), bringing salvation to all men.” In Hebrews 11 it also talks about God's grace to the old testament saints and their great faith in God. The old testament saints did not have the Trinity inside of them or the filling of the Holy Spirit as we in this dispensation (period of time) do, but those who had faith and believed in God were most certainly saved! Like us, they will eventually get a resurrection body, but they will get it after us (church-age believers)at the third advent. Before Christ became a man, He appeared several times in the old testament as an angel or form of a man - what is called a theophany. One example of this was with Jacob in Genesis. (Genesis 25:19-35:29) constitutes the eighth book in Genesis presenting to us the family history of Isaac and in particular Jacob whose name was changed by the Lord (before He became Jesus Christ) to “Israel.”
Dante's "Inferno" and "Day of Doom" are both movies that promote more lies from satan to make you believe that God is a harsh and mean God, rather than the truth, that God is a very loving Father who gives us Grace after Grace and everything we need to live the spiritiual life(and the natural one as well), not because we earn or deserve it (because we DON'T) but because of Who and What He is. The Bible is the mind of Christ and learning it under your right pastor/teacher, under the mentorship of God the Holy Spirit (which means confessing your sins to get back in fellowship with God - 1 John 1:9)is the ONLY way to truly learn about God and everything that HE has done for you. And God has truly done EVERYTHING for you and everyone else out of His great love for us. Don't buy satan's lies that we can't really know who God is because that is absolutely not true!
Some of the movies that portray truth about God are "The Passion of the Christ", "The Gospel of John", and "The Perfect Stranger".
Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men and not just believers!
The bottom line is, there is NO purgatory or limbo after you die. Purgatory and limbo are both more lies from the enemy (satan) to make you afraid of God in the wrong way. God doesn't want you to be afraid of Him, He wants you to respect and be in awe of Him. There is ONLY Heaven and the Lake of Fire when we die and we DON'T get to make the choice of where we are going after we die. The only way a person could not get into Heaven and be put in the Lake of Fire by their own choice, not God's would be to not believe and have faith alone in His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ alone. That is the ONLY sin that would put someone in the lake of fire. It is also God's grace that an infant or child would automatically go to Heaven if they die because an infant or child, or even someone who is mentally handicapped does not have the mental capacity to make that choice. God is not the false god who was portrayed in this movie. God is a loving and awesome God who desires everyone to be saved and to be with Him eternally in Heaven and He loves you and me and everyone more than anyone else could ever love you or me or anyone else. He loves us so much more than we can ever comprehend!!! It is the devil (satan) and the fallen angels want you to think that God doesn’t want everyone to be saved! The devil and the fallen angels say that God is unfair, but God is fair! God doesn’t want anyone to go to the Lake of Fire forever and ever!(John 3:17), “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world (Christ would die in their place), but that the world should be saved through Him (faith alone in Christ alone)!” And Christ would have willingly come to save you and suffer worse than any human did ever, be separated from His Father(God), whom He had never been spiritually separated from before and then die on the cross for your sins even if you were the only person on this earth who needed saving! That is the kind of God we have. Not the false god that is portrayed in these movies.
Sorry for this long reply, but I wanted to directly answer your questions from the Word of God. I still could give you many,many more verses regarding the doctrine of salvatiion, santification, justification, eternal security (you can never ever lose your salvation) and unlimited atonment (Christ died for all and not just the elect who would chose to believe).
Humans change, but God does NOT change and thank God He doesn't.
My prayers are with you.
<quote>Dante's "Inferno" and "Day of Doom" are both movies</i>
I'm not aware that either of these are movies. <i>Day of Doom</i> is a long poem written by Michael Wigglesworth in the 17th century about the Judgement Day. Dante's <i>Inferno</i> is the first part of the <i>Divine Comedy</i>.
I think we misunderstand each other on a few points:
- I am coming from a New England Catholic background. I was raised Catholic and studied Puritain literature intensely. They also used scriptures to justify their beliefs, etc.
- You are not coming from a Catholic background. Catholicism believes that actions as well as faith can lead one to Heaven --- it's called penance. There is Purgatory for Catholics. Purgatory is for those who may not yet be worthy of God but in whom God sees the potential of such. (Isn't that a much pleasanter idea than the either/or of just Heaven and Hell?)
Your interpretation of God and the suppoed Word of God are different from that with which I was raised (I don't practice or consider myself Catholic in a religious sense. Just a cultural one). I must admit a lack of understanding of many Protestant groups, though I am somewhat familiar with Quakers, Baptists, and Evengelicals. I am completely unfamiliar with Methodist and Lutheran ideaology.
I think this is quite often the stemming of dissatisfaction in religion, which is echoed in the movie (which is what I am really interested in discussing). My point was, the very themes presented in this movie are the very same things that are causing us now to have disagreement: No one really knows God -- as a being. No one can really understand God's plan. In attempting to satisfy the need within ourselves to know, we have one religion (Christianity) that presents a number of interpretations (Methodist, Catholic, Luthera, Evengelical, Quakerism, Baptist, Episcopalian). Maybe they're all right. Maybe they're all wrong. The fact is, our imperfect human minds cannot possibly comprehend the perfect being that God is supposed to be. And maybe that is the root of malcontent with the Christian God. I think Sharon's refusal of God at the end of this movie demonstrates much of what I have pointed out. She can fathom the concept, the idea of God, but she can't fathom HIM in the great sense.
Hi again Lizzybizzy.
Well, you are right, I was wrong about Dante's "Inferno" and "Day of Doom" being movies, however, I checked them both on the internet and I will tell you the same thing that I did in my last reply to you. Both portray a false god and promote many, many lies from satan (the enemy and god of this earth) about God and His free gift of salvation through His Precious Son and my Savior, The Lord Jesus Christ. "The Day of Doom" poem by Michael Wigglesworth is an absolutely disgusting and horrible poem because he has completely taken Bible scripture totally out of context and very wrongly portrays God as this very mean, stern, awful, unfair, harsh taskmaster who is looking to do anything to keep you down and prevent you from entering into heaven. This entire poem is one lie after another after another and on and on from satan designed to make you and anyone who reads it totally afraid of God and of what will happen after they die, instead of talking about God's great Grace, Love, and Mercy. When someone dies, they are absent from the body and immediately face-to-face with the Lord and that is an exciting and wonderful thing, although it is sad for those he/she left behind. And although purgatory is a more pleasant idea then just Heaven and Hell (called the Lake of Fire in the Bible), there is no where, not one verse in the Bible that talks about purgatory or limbo for Catholics or anyone. There is no such thing as purgatory. It is just another lie from satan to make you think that somehow, some way, you can get to Heaven on your own, through your own efforts and merits, which is totally untrue because the only merit to get into Heaven is believing in Christ and faith alone in Him alone and that is it. And this author also very wrongly and horribly distorts is what will happen after we die because He talks about how all our sins, failures and mistakes will be judged at the judgement seat of Christ. This is absolutely FALSE! Because of what Christ did, God no longer looks at our sins because He imputed every last one of them to His Son and we can NEVER be judged for them again. (Isaiah 43:25) I, even I, am the One who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake; and I will NOT remember your sins. This should be great and comforting news to you as it was to me to know that our sins, failures and mistakes were taken care of at the cross once and for all. (Corrected translation thus far of Ephesians 6:14),"Therefore He is able also to SAVE FOREVER those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." Christ is not only able to save us forever (we could never ever lose our salvation) and He also lives to pray for us continually. That is Grace upon wonderful Grace that should have been spoken of in that poem. It is our deeds that are evaluated at the Throne of Christ, not our sins and this applies to both believers and unbelievers. Our deeds are judged if they were human good done on human power (wood, hay, stubble) or on divine good, done through the power of the Holy Spirit (gold, silver, precious stones). If all of our deeds on earth were human good done on human power, they will be burnt up in the biggest bonfire in heaven,however, only the believer will still be saved and go to Heaven because they made the one-time decision to believe and have faith in Christ alone. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)
Before I go on, I just want you to know that I come from a Catholic background also. I wasn't raised Catholic, but most of my family are Catholic and I also attended a Catholic high school, so I understand what you mean by the Catholic culture. However, I found no answers about God while I was at the high school,and after I graduated, I continued searching for God and answers about Him. Later on, my search intensified especially after my brother, Alan passed away suddenly at the age of 21. I was angry at God and wanted to understand how He could have let that happened, so I started looking even more intently for answers. I searched for quite some time. Eventually, I found the answers that I have been looking for through finding my right pastor/teacher who teaches me accurately from the Word of God, through the mentorship of the Holy Spirit about God. Through learning Bible doctrine I am learning why He allows bad things to happen to people and answer after answer after wonderful answer. If you really want to find answers about God, He will help you find them as He did me. He says this in Matthew 7:7, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock and it will be opened to you." This is a promise from God - one of many wonderful promises from Him. And His promises are real! This is the reason I strongly disagree with you that you can't ever really get to know God or God's plan because I know both from daily learning of the Word of God, which is also The Mind Of Christ, and from my own experience of applying Bible doctrine to solve my problems that is expressly not true. Everyday I learn more and more about God's plan in my life because learning Bible doctrine is the number 1 priority in my life. Learning Bible doctrine is the only way to know God and to learn to love God because you can't truly love someone unless you get to know them, and that includes God. I am saying all of this to you, not to offend you, but as a sister in the Lord, who is telling you truth from the Word of God in love, so that you are not deceived by the enemy,satan who wants nothing more than to drive you away from God and the plan for your life that He has for you. God made sure in eternity past that everyone has equal chance and equal opportunity to learn about Him through His Son and His plan (as well as how to advance in that plan) that He has for us through His Word so that we would not have the excuse when we die that we didn't know or the truth wasn't given to us. (Ephesians 1:3-9, 3:11-12) The truth has been given to everyone and it is our choice to choose to get to know God or not, just like it was Sharon's choice to not get to know God in this movie. And again the god in this movie was a false god because he did not let Sharon into Heaven, even though she had believed in Christ. Your one true purpose for being born on this earth is the same as mine and everyone else's - to get to know and glorify God through learning Bible doctrine and occupation with The Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other purpose that you were born for.
Christianity does not have a variety of interpretations through those different religions that you mentioned to me in your reply. There is only one interpretation and that is through the Word of God taught by going into the historical context, comparting scripture to scripture and going back to the original languages to get the correct and accurate meaning of a verse(s). Religion is an invention by satan that falsely teaches that there is something good in us and that we can do good works on our own to please God and get to heaven on our own which is totally untrue. We are totally depraved human beings who are sinners and we have no good in us whatsoever (Ephesians 2:12-13,19; Romans 3:22-23, 5:12-17). Man is created in the image of God but as a result of Adam's original sin of disobedience in the garden of Eden, the entire human race receives a totally corrupt and depraved nature. Every member of the human race is born physically alive but spiritually dead meaning they are separated from God. This totally depraved state of man qualifies him for grace. Grace is all that God is free to do based solely on the merits of the Person and Work of Christ. Man has absolutely no ability to redeem himself or restore his relationship with God. None! Christianity is not a religion. It is about a relationship with The Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Which leads me next into talking about penance. We all have a sin nature inside us. This sin nature has trends toward legalism and wants to insert some system of penance. There is even something called a legalist who is someone who wants you to publicly announce your sins as a form of penance, which is wrong; it does not please God and it only gets other people out of fellowship with God. The basis for the forgiveness of postsalvation sinning is the work of Christ on the cross, not the penance of the Christian. Legalism wants to "help" God by adding human works, which cancel God's Grace. And God does not ever need our help for anything! He does all of the work and gets all of the credit as He should because He is our Creator and everything that is graciously given to us (because we don't deserve it) is given to us by Him. The moment we believe in Christ, we possess eternal life, and nothing can change that. But legalism wants to add some form of "commitment" or "lordship" to faith in Christ. Legalism through penance wants to help God by adding human works. And there is a lot of drive for self-improvement in the old sin nature. We may improve, take vows, try to make it up to God, and if the sin shocks us enough, we will change our behavior pattern. But none of that is the Christian way of life, but is legalism. Legalism does not dictate to God; God always forgives. There never has been a sin acknowledged to God that has not been instantly forgiven. God is "righteous" or "just" to forgive us because that sin was already judged at the cross. God is righteous and justified in forgiving you because He has already judged that sin on the cross. "Cleansing us from all unrighteousness" (from 1 John 1:9) refers to all the unknown sins, which occur in fragmentation. These are sins of ignorance for which we are held responsible.
So the mechanic is very simple. The moment we acknowledge postsalvation sins, we are forgiven for those sins. Then we recover our fellowship with God.
This is the only solution to the problem of self-fragmentation, the life of carnality. However, fragmentation does not mean loss of salvation. For no sin can cancel the forty plus things that God did for us at the moment of salvation. God is faithful in every case of rebound (confessing our sins), no matter how monstrous the sin of the believer may be to yourself or others. Just as there is nothing we can add to faith in Christ for salvation, so there is nothing we can add to acknowledgement of our sins for the recovery of our fellowship with God and the filling of the Holy Spirit.
Both believing in Christ for salvation and simply
acknowledging our postsalvation sins for forgiveness are non-meritorious. They are totally and completely compatible with God's grace policy.
Sorry again for this long reply, but this was the only way that I could doctrinally respond to your reply. Doctrinal = Biblical. And I still have more verses and doctrines that I could have given to you in response to your reply, but then my reply would be twice as long as it already is.
And now I have a question for you. Out of curiosity, did you say that you are from the New England area? I ask because my church is in that area (Somerset, Massachussetts).
God's blessings to you always Lizzybizzy.
Your sister in Christ,
CA
,
Just out of curiousity....from one woman to another....how do you know with specific certainty that God is male? I am curious. I also am not trying to offend.
I think you are able to successfully defend your beliefs to yourself. I do not have any counter arguments to offer because I am able to defend my opposing beliefs to myself. You have a knowledge of scripture that I do not posess, so my arguments are without support beyond my own internal beliefs.
I don't believe in Christ. I don't believe in God. (Not as Christians do, though.) I never have. But that is beside the point.
My reference to how we can know what God's plan is, how can we really know God referred to Sharon's decision at the end of the movie. That is what this message board is about: the movie. My opinion of the end falls into two categories:
1) I believe much of it is the product of mental breakdown after the trauma of killing her own daughter. God aside.
2) If the end of the movie is really the end of the world, then I believe Sharon's decision makes sense in light of her doubts as to God's plan. Her decision not to join her daughter in heaven comes from her belief that she *should* know what God's plan is for her, but she doesn't.....and she studied the Bible, and she saw the Pearl, and she had unwavering faith.....until God didn't show. Now, I don't know about you, but I consider it rude when someone arrives late or doesn't show at all. If God is a father, then one should have the expectation that he would behave as one and not make a daughter or son wait indefinitely. Sharon took issue with this --- and she raises a good point, who does forgive God? If humans are created in his image, then he must be as full of mistakes as we are....and if he makes mistakes, why doesn't he ask us for our forgiveness? These are Sharon's concerns. I find them extremely valid.
The point is, it's hard to know either way which really happened. But I personally find the first one to make more sense.
Lizzbizzy, I know with total certainty that God is male because He is called God the Father in many passages in the Bible. And no offence taken. I am happy to answer any questions that you have about God and His free gift of salvation.
Ephesians 4:6, "One God and Father of all who (God the Father) is over all and through all and in all."
John 14:16, "And I (the Lord Jesus Christ) will ask the Father, and He (God the Father) will give you another Helper, that He (God the Holy Spirit) may be with you forever."
The Lord Jesus Christ reveals the Father to man and is most important part of the Father's plan (John 1:14; 2 Cor. 4:6; Eph. 3:11; Heb. 1:2). John 1:18, "No man has seen God (the Father) at any time; the only begotten God (the Lord Jesus Christ), who is in the bosom of the Father, He (the Lord Jesus Christ) has explained Him (God the Father). This relationship has existed from eternity past in the divine decree (John 17:5, 24). The Lord Jesus Christ though equal with God the Father took a subordinate role to accomplish the plan of salvation (Phil. 2:6).
God is absolute truth, He cannot lie. The Lord Jesus Christ declares the veracity of the Father in John 7:28, "He (God the Father) who sent Me is TRUE." The Lord Jesus Christ says of Himself in John 14:6, "I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life." 1 John 5:7 says, "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the TRUTH."
And there are more passages that I can give you on God the Father, but I want to answer the rest of your questions. God the Father is my Father, my Perfect Father who has given me the very best Heaven had to offer, His Son and my Savior, The Lord Jesus Christ. And I can tell you again with all certainty that He makes no mistakes! The problem is a little 3 letter word called “sin”.
When God created Adam and the woman, they were both perfect and they lived in perfect condition in a perfect environment.
When Adam and the woman sinned of there own free will (volutiion), they lost their perfect condition and perfect environment.
They became subject to both spiritual and physical death.
Their nature was now totally depraved as all of us are today
God charged Adam with sin, and subsequently charged his descendants with the penalty for Adam’s first sin. God is a perfect God who can have absolutely nothing to do with sin, so when man sinned, it not only affected them and the whole world, it affected God too because He had to get involved to save mankind through His Son. And the best part is, He already knew before He ever created one human being that this would have to be done because He knew man would sin and turn away from Him, but He created us anyway with a complete and perfect plan to save us.
Once a person is condemned, it makes him eligible to receive a Savior and that is the great news!!!
The penalties that rest on all who remain under Adam (not believing in Christ and having faith alone in Him alone)include:
(1) physical death
(2) spiritual death
(3) the second death
Physical death = separation of the soul from the body
Spiritual death = separation of the soul from God
Second death = eternal separation from God and banishment from His presence forever.
It is great news because although we will all die, if you choose to have faith alone in Christ alone, you will be saved from spiritual death and have the means to stay in fellowship with God, and be saved from the second death. And Christ is the only One who can save you - again there is no way you can save yourself. And God longs for you to believe in His Son and be able to have fellowship with Him now and for all of eternity. He does not want you to go to the Lake of Fire.
Because of sin, God and man were in a relationship of hostility and enmity.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life
That act was the spiritual death of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary in 30 AD, where He offered His life as a substitute for ALL mankind.
Salvation is God’s complete work by which He rescues man from eternal ruin, and bestows on him the riches of His grace.
Sin and its deadly effects can be cured only on the ground of the “shed blood” of the Son of God = His spiritual death as our substitute on the Cross.
Grace Bible: Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace Eph 1:8 which He lavished on us.
“the blood of Christ” is an analogy to represent the substitutionary spiritual death of Christ.
1Pe 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
Not only does God save us from our sin, but He goes way beyond that!! Because God's justice has been completely satisfied by His Son paying the price for our sins that we should have paid, God is now free to bless us out as He wants so very much to. However, although God is Father to ALL, He can only truly bless those who chose to believe and have faith alone in Christ alone.
As for your question on who forgives God, I will answer that question this way. Lizzybizzy, the more I have learned about God through learning Bible doctrine and have seen what He has done in my life, the more I realize how much I do not deserve ALL that God has given me from my salvation on, and even before that, when I didn't believe in His Son. When you start to realize the magnitude of what God gave up for you and what Christ gave up for you to save you so that you could live with God forever in perfect happiness that is far beyond what was given to Adam and the woman in the Garden of Eden, and how much He has done for you and all of the tools that He has given you to solve all of your problems if you would just take the time to find out what they are and how to use them, how then can you blame God for anything in your life that goes wrong? We all have free will and we all make bad decisions and the Bible is very clear that we will all reap what we sow, whether we are an unbeliver or not. God does not have that law set up to punish us, but to either (a) show us our need for a Savior or (b) to steer us in the right direction if we are a believer that has gone off course to bring that believer back to Him. The more I learn about my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the more I love Him and the more I love God who sent Him to me, when I did nothing to earn or deserve to be saved or to be given anything. God is a God of love who deserves our complete respect and awe, not our blame for the choices that we make.
Lizzybizzy, there was someone else on a differnt thread whom I answered that had a simular thought that you did in regards to if God is perfect, why is the world not perfect and in chaos. The answer that I wrote to this person can be found in the What I got out of this movie (major spoilers enclosed)thread.
My prayers are with you.
Lizzybizzy, just a note to let you know that you are still in my prayers.
shareGrace333 said, "...the only way you can get to know Christ is by finding your right pastor/teacher who can teach you The Word of God..."
This statement is one of the earmarks of a cult. Relying upon an authority for truth and guidance rather than using your own mind. It is one of the basic tenets of indoctrination/brainwashing. Abdicate responsibility for your own wellbeing and your own actions to the cult leader. They'll tell you what to think and do.
The truth is you don't need a pastor, teacher, or priest.
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:18-20
Charles Manson can go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus Christ into his heart as his personal savior and lord but *beep* the Jews! They don't know Jesus!
Christianity is so warped. I've been living with it for years with my mother and her creepy friends.
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Grace333 is full of crap. The Bible teaches about Hellfire, few will be saved, apostasy, and unforgivable sin. Jesus repeatedly preaches about damnation in a lake of fire and that most people will be sent there by him himself. I'm not saying any of this is true or real, but it is what Jesus taught in the Bible. Read the gospels and New Testament and you can see for yourself that Jesus was extremely judgmental. Universal Salvation is not a Christian Doctrine, it is a blatant falsehood.
shareI agree, she kinda left out that part. Just sharing my opinion about what she said. If an omnibenevolent God exists, he would not be a jealous one and would be understanding and accept people the way they are. Bible states God wants everyone to be saved then why not just save everyone then, he has the power but instead you have to believe and worship first. Some people compare Superman to Jesus, well at least Superman saves people no matter what they are, good or evil and finds other ways to deal with sinful criminals rather than smite them. And grace333 mentioned that God doesn't lie then why did he tell adam that if he eats a fruit in the tree of knowledge, he will die. He ate it and didn't die but instead gained awareness and knowledge. If that isn't a lie then what is the definition of it.
shareAnd there's the problem in a nutshell; zealots not knowing where "I believe..." ends and "the fact is...." begins, and so treating an exercise in pure thought as a hard fact.
It's nice that you have something to belive in, albeit in what appears a rather desperate, glassy eyed manner. But TELLING people the way things are (as you do so in many posts here) as opposed to suggesting an alternative will win you few converts, and will likely just put peoples backs up.
Personally, I just see it as a method for weak willed people to abdicate their responsibility to the material world. But each to their own.
You seem to be well intentioned, although also well programmed. I was taught this as a kid, and it was difficult to deprogram myself.
The thing that finally got me is this: To you, everything you have detailed above is the MOST IMPORTANT THING. Nothing else is more important than your faith as you describe it. Not family, not ethics, not government or agriculture, literature, peace, or any other "works". These works come secondary, as a result of your "faith".
You have raised esoteric mystical religious beliefs above everything else, including reason, logic, wisdom, or any rules humans decide on between themselves. You would have to be purposefully blind to not see the dangers in this, both now and in history.
cl
I've read the bible...and I've found it talks mainly about two things. Wine.....and a bunch of other stuff that's highly unlikely.
share[deleted]
Go watch Rambo! That's a nice ending!
No, I was not angry at all, nor did I intend to be preachy or to force my beliefs on you or others. All I did was present the doctrinal truth from the Word of God. I chose to state it the way I did on purpose because this movie absolutely did not portray the truth about Who and What God is or about His free gift of eternal life by just believing in His Son. Not even close! It is now strictly between you and God if you will choose to believe in The Lord Jesus and have faith alone in Him alone, and also believe that He is the God-man who willingly chose to come down from heaven to pay the certificate of debt we owed God for our sins by nailing them on the cross with Him. There is simply no other way to get into Heaven - He is the only way to God and the only way to have eternal life with God in Heaven. And I didn't say that,nor did my pastor say that - God said that in His Word, the Bible.
And now WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM, the Lord Jesus Christ, will NEVER perish, but has ETERNAL LIFE! Joh 3:16
The Bible says “The wages of sin is eternal death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Rom 6:23
The Bible says “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” Acts 16:31
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” Eph 2:8-9
My prayers are with you.
Scripturaly you are correct, faith alone in Christ is how we are saved. Let us not forget though that faith without works is dead.....as Paul wrote.
We are not saved by works but we must live out the faith we profess. Faith in christ is believing that he died on the cross for our sins to reconcile us to God our Father. The works are the evidence of our faith. Some may say that all you need to do is believe in who he is and what he did and then you are saved but even the demons believe this. They know he is the Son of God , that he died to become the final sacrifice, that all dominion in heaven and on earth was given to him and yet they are lost. The question is do we live out what we believe?
You may believe in Jesus and that He died on the cross for the sins of the world but do you know him? It is like saying, I know the president exists, I know what he does, I know where he lives, but if I knock on his door and he opens it, he will say "who are you". We must know Christ and strive to be like him. That is the evidence of the faith we claim.
The film portrays God as an unfeeling creator who allowed Mimi's character to kill her child. She even says how can I love a God who allowed me to kill my own child? She clearly did not know the love and mercy of Christ. If she did, she would have understood that God came in the flesh to give life, not to take it. All she wanted to do was escape this life, rather then live it. We must understand that because we have free will, we have the choice to either do right or wrong. It was not God who was to blame that she murdered her child but her own will. God will not force his plan or His love on anyone. It is up to us if we receive it or not. Otherwise it would not be a gift.
With that said, I do not believe the rapture is a future event but a past one. Scripture is clear that the last days were in the 1st century. Those who are believers, know that Christ reigns within us NOW. We are with Him forever, He will never leave or forsake us. This rapture theory is only 200 years old. It began with the modern teaching of dispensationalism. I do not believe it is the right interpretation. Even so, I like this movie and made me think.
romulus3712, I agree with you on most of what you said, except for the last paragraph. I especially agree with you on what you said about living out your faith. However, the only way that you can live out your faith is with proper motivation by confessing your sins (1 John 1:9) to be filled with the Holy Spirit and by learning Bible doctrine. There is just no way that we can live out your faith on our own human power - it is impossible to do so. If we don't live out our faith by the proper motivation, all of our works will be wood, hay and stubble that will be burned in a big bonfire at the Beama seat of Christ. And yes, I do know my God and I am learning more and more about Him every day because I listen to Bible doctrine daily, taught through my pastor/teacher, under the filling of the Holy Spirit, who is our true mentor and teacher. It is truly such a wonderful, marvelous Joy to get to know God the Father and my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and I wish more Christians would choose to learn about Him on a daily basis through the Word of God as it is the Only way to get to know Him.
I have to disagree with you that the Bible is clear that the Rapture happened in 1st century because we are very clearly in the birth pangs of the end times (Matthew 24:3-11). Also in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, it states very plainly and clearly that the dead in Christ (who are the believers in the dispensation of Grace which we are in now), will rise first and then those who are alive in Christ (Royal Family members/Christians) who are still alive when the Rapture happens) will be caught up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air and we shall always be with Him. Since we are both in Christ, how could the Rapture have happened already if this is a promise from The Lord Jesus Christ to all who believe in Him? We would be with Him already if it already happened and not still be here on this earth. That just doesn't make sense. As Christians, we not only live for The Lord Jesus Christ, but we also live for His coming for us as our hope. Why would Christ take only some of His believers and not all of them at one time? The Bible is quite clear on that in Ephesians 3:3-10, “that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.” We are gentiles, so all that Paul is saying applies to us now, not just in the 1st century.
The other verses that talk about dispensations are (Romans. 16:25; Colossians. 1:26; and Romans 16:25-27.
I expressly did not like the movie because of how it wrongly and falsely portayed God as a harsh and mean God and because it totally and completely distorted the free gift of salvation that is offered from God through Christ.
Hi Grace333
We both agree on the love and mercy of our Lord, although we dissagree on end time views. I reject dispensationalism and believe in covenant theology. There is only really one verse where rapture theology can be taken from and that is 1 Thessalonians 4:13. There is no other place that directly addresses where believers will meet the Lord in the air or rise at His return. Even so here is the scripture:
1 Thessaloninans 4
The Coming of the Lord
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.
In any study of scripture we must adhere to the audience who heard it. The Bible was written for us, but it was not written TO US. The apostle Paul is preaching to the then living Thessalonians, he is not addressing the 21st Century. There is nothing grammatically to suggest anything else. If you were living at that time, what would you think when you heard it? You would believe you would be with the Lord soon. Please for a moment, remove the theology that you have been taught and see this through the eyes of the people who heard it. Now, notice the words above that Paul is using.
we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Notice he is saying WE. He never said them or any other audience except the ones who heard him back in the 1st century. I won't presume to get to technical now or lengthy but I ask a question to all believers concerning the result of this event....."And so we will be with the Lord forever". Forget your theology for a moment of Christ being physically in front of you when I ask the question, are you with Jesus forever now? or more appropriately, is He with you forever now?
Most know the answer is yes but the reason that most believers have an obstacle with with this is their theology limits them to being with Christ physically in heaven when scripture is clear and our faith as well that Christ is with us right now for all eternity and will never leave us or forsake us.
Is it that hard to see the truth that for those who believe in Him, he is dwelling with us right now in all reality forever? We all met Him already. Which is more real, the physical here, or the spiritual where we already have been seated and reign with Him? The scripture above was not a physical event but a spiritual one that began in the 1st century and is occuring every day as each believer in Christ meets Him as Christ is the bridge between heaven and earth and He dwells with them forever and ever. This is the Lordship we all profess as our faith. It was never a physical event. This scripture is already fulfilled. The entire New Covenant pupose was to reconcile us with God our Father throught the atoning work of Jesus Christ. The reconciliation to heaven itself and to Jesus Christ our Lord happened already. If it didn't, then the relationship with Jesus is only half realized as a physical meeting is what is implied. I don't believe that, it is the relationship or Lord ship we have now that was what is expressed. The dead in Christ were not the believers in the dispensation of grace as Revelation is clear,
"blessed are those who have part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power over them".
The second death is the lake of fire. It has no power over us who had part in the first resurrection (Christ's atoning work on the Cross). Isn't this true now? If it isn't, we are not saved which we know we are.
The dead in Christ were the faithful beleivers of the Old Testament such as Abraham and David. Before Christ's atoning work on the Cross no one went into heaven since the perfect atonement (Christ) was not made yet. No one was worthy or holy to be reconciled with God and be in His presence. It was only through Christ that we are made holy to be in the presence of God our Father. To understand, the first resurrection in Revelation we have to understand what the first death was. Most will say the first death is our physical death on earth which scripture states otherwise. The answer is in Genesis. What is the first death in scripture? God said to Adam you may not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for on the DAY you eat of it you will surely die. Did Adam die physically on that day he ate the fruit? NO he didn't but we know God didn't lie. Adam did die on that day spiritually. This spiritual death is the "first death" in scripture. Our physical death was a consequence of the "first death". Since our spiritual death is spiritual then our "first resurrection" is not physical either but spiritual resurection. This was done by Christ at His atoning work on the Cross. Remeber the scripture in Revelation? Blessed are those that have part in the "first Resurrection", the "second death" has no power over them. WE have part in this now as well as the dead in Christ (the Old Testmanet Saints) since we are no longer hell bound but heaven bound and we reign and dwell with Christ already. The physical part is irrelevant, Christ is with us now forever through His sacrifice on the Cross.
Now, as 1 Thessalonians says, "we will meet him in the air, and we will be with Him forever". The word "air" never meant the air around us. If it did remember what Satan was called in scripture...."the prince of the air". If it was the physical air, then Satan would be seen physically all through the Old and New Testament time. The word "air" in Greek meant the spiritual realm when used. As I meantioned before, Christ became the bridge between earth (humanity) and Heaven(GOd our Father). We met Jesus in the spiritual as He reconciled us to God our Father in Heaven through his work on the Cross when we received Him as our Lord and Savior. This scripturally takes the language used by Paul "WE who are alive at the coming of our Lord...." "We will meet Him in the air and then we will be with Him forever". This is a past event.
It scripturally makes sense that the event described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 is not a future event but a past one. It is the question of a physical coming or a spiritual one. The end result is the dwelling of Jesus with the ones who received Him, in all reality that is right now and will never end for those that Love Him.
When did this "rapture" event happen? It happened in the first century and was also known as the "resurrection of the dead". This event included the then living Thessalonians and all beleivers who heard Paul's message as well as the Old Testament saints who were waiting to be resurrected or reconciled with God our Father and is now happening each and everyday as new believers meet Jesus in the air(spirit realm) and become holy and worthy to be in the presence of God again through Christ. This event was the confirming of the Old Covenent that passed away as the New Covenant in Christ became the perfect Covenant. Christ would no longer reign in houses made of stone but in those who received Him. This is the Good News. Christ is NOW with His people in all reality. If we get stuck on the physical then we miss this glorious truth.
The End of the Age in scripture occured in the 1st century with the destruction of the last sign of the Old Covenant, the temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The book of Revelation now makes sense since the entire first 3 verses talk about the book being fufilled "soon" or "the time is near". This language makes no sense whatsoever if it was to be fulfilled 2000+ years later. The rapture event I believe is a past event, the truth is that Christ is now reigning and dwelling with those who love and receive Him just as the passage says "and so we will be with the Lord forever". That is the truth right now, let us not miss it. Blessings!
Sigh... Unfortunately the bible is open to many interpretations. NONE of which are necessarily the correct one. Every religion believes they are the ONE true religion (one reason we have wars). I argued with my brother for the longest time (born again christians are very bull headed) and finally he agreed with me that , the bible was written by humans... not angels... not god. no matter how you look at it, it was written and revised so many times and portions of it left out because MAN decided to omit parts of it. Its more or less a guide to living life by treating others with kindness and compassion with the promise of a reward at the end of your life. I do believe in god but organized religion is a bad thing. And no matter what the book that has out sold any other book says...No one can truly say they understand and know exactly what the book is saying 100%. A lot was going on back than and much of that book is very politically driven.
Grace333 , I can quote episodes of scooby doo but that doesn't mean i totally know all there is about the cartoon (though it was a great one in its day). I do respect your opinion and in know way want you to change you mind (or expect you too since you seem very stubborn) but you come across as believing your the only one who can be correct. WWJD?
What if God talked to someone who has never read the bible and never will and told them that a lot of the content in the bible was wrong ? would you believe that person when they told you this happened? would you believe ? I will keep you in MY prayers Grace333, because i do believe.
I believe as far as the bible is concerned to be biblical the four horsemen well not be seen as the four horsemen so that takes revelation of what you think to be theory of human and mankind and now woman alike. Revelation when it speaks of death does not mean you can see him riding on a horse and the descriptions are different so this clearly is not a biblical film lol. Also in the bible according to the old testament God told Abraham to kill his son but when he got to the point to do it did not God say not to do it? It says in the bible that Abraham was going to go through for it for God, and God stopped him and said you have proven your self to me. The only one who would ask you to actually kill your son and watch you do it would be the other dark side of life they call either Satan or one of his third angels who fell from heaven. This movie was very cult like then Christian.
Jesus doesn't talk to people and say this is what i want you to do. In the bible it talks about false prophets coming among us.Jesus talks about this many times in the new testament. Jesus doesn't say let this one man or one child take you into the wilderness. He says the opposite do not let someone tell you they are speaking for me and lead you out into the wilderness away from me. Was she not and her child out in the wilderness? In the desert waiting for God? What God was she waiting for? This story clearly showed only hell and showed that God is not a loving God and he wants you to kill for him. Only Satan prince of darkness would ask this of us. Sorry this story is not biblical.
As a law student I can say that you apparently have to be something like a bible-lawyer to go to heaven these days.
Comply all of the sick rules, try to get through the maze of words which are deciphered by the church in it's sole discretion. Lawyers of God. Laughable! They are just leeches of the society, who gain money for deceiving us.
It's just so stupid to cram your head full with some 2000 year old cr@p which tries to teach you how to live.
Bible is for people who don't have an idea what they are living for.
This book is for people who are slaves in their minds and who only want to surrender to some godly beeing, to kneel down.
As for me, I just try to follow my dreams and not to hurt people without a cause and in my opinion it's more than enough to come to heaven, if there is one.
What do we know about God? Only what the others told us. Is everything what the others tell us true? How often have we been fooled by other people?
You mustn't read bible to understand what's right. You must KNOW what's right yourself.
I spent a piece of my precious time for this message. Maybe noone will ever read this. But I don't care - i haven't been looking for support or sympathy, i've been practising my English. Bye folks!
You've done a good job with English as a second language. Even the written vernacular like "cr@p." The only critique I have is the "noone" is instead written "no one" other than that, good job.
I also agree with you that the Bible is used by too many people to justify too many things. Baptists & Catholics both use essentially the same book, but can argue about its absolutes.
I think God is THE force of nature & NOT an absolutist legalistic judge. So, I "support" your comment. Not that this will change the minds of fundamentalists, but while God isn't evil, the absolutist fundies are driving the violence in much of the world today. Each side is certain that their take on God is the only one, and anyone who doesn't believe the same way is a lost sinner...
Islamic fundies & Baptist fundies think that God needs them to make the world right. I think that if God needs anyone to kill for Him, they need a better God.
By the way, what is your first language?
Koverartsnet wrote: "The only critique I have is the "noone" is instead written "no one" other than that, good job". There are two grammatical errors in this sentence. Please take more care next time you write and 'compliment' anyone on their second language.
In "I also agree with you" the "also" is superfluous, turning the sentence into a pleonasm.
If you are looking for religionists 'driving the violence in much of the world today', you don't need to look at fundamentalist islamics and baptists. The US presidency, US congress and US senate are replete with christians. Are they not democratically responsible for that 'pre-emptive' war in Iraq, and thus for the violent death of over half a million innocent Iraqi civilians?
That's about 200 times the number of innocent civilians who died on 9/11. How's that for 'an eye for an eye'?
Hmm... impressive.
"There are two grammatical errors in this sentence. Please take more care next time you write and 'compliment' anyone on their second language. "
I think that language is an important tool. Clear and concise thought is aided by vocabulary.
But your snotty little judgment was more about your need to express some ill conceived idea about superiority. Good for you.
My comment was a compliment, not a college essay or an English lesson.
Granted, I hate to decipher poorly formed sentence structures, but boards are also a form of stream of conscious writing that doesn't always get edited before publishing.
Sure, "also" was misused in the sentence. I was changing the structure of the statement as I was writing it and didn't go back & edit the opening. Sometimes that happens.
So my response to you is...
If you make your living as a proof reader, then good for you, I've worked with some of very good professionals. Congratulations.
If you are just being a picky troll, well...
bite me.
"If you are looking for religionists 'driving the violence in much of the world today', you don't need to look at fundamentalist islamics and baptists. The US presidency, US congress and US senate are replete with christians. Are they not democratically responsible for that 'pre-emptive' war in Iraq, and thus for the violent death of over half a million innocent Iraqi civilians?"
What a mess, too clever & pretentious by half and not as clear as it could be. I won't bother with the capitalization errors.
Convoluted, archaic construction.
(OMG a sentence fragment! live with it.)
So much for your linguistic superiority...
heh.
What capitalization errors? I hope you won't expect me to write religious groups with a capital because I don't. Just like you won't write blacks, whites, socialists or liberals with a capital.
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This movie just came on TV today and it was so weird I came here to see what the heck it was about. Shanblake's comment made the most sense.
There are probably hundreds of religions out there. They all believe different things but they all believe what they are doing for god is right. So they are all the right religion and they will all have whatever heaven they believe in regardless of believing in jesus or not. Does that mean all the good people in the world born and died before jesus ever came can't go to heaven? That's a sh*tty god if that's true and I don't want to be in that heaven.
As for is god a man or a woman? If he's a man then you are saying he is not a god at all, just a man.
As for me, save your 'my prayers are with you' to yourself. That would be a lie anyway. I want nothing to do with a god who does nothing to save anyone from rape, terrorism, cancer, murder, suffering, kidnappings, war, etc, etc, etc. *beep* that guy.
Life is here now. I'm not living all my days looking forward to dying. If there is a god then I would think that god would want me to live this great gift called LIFE and be a good person. Nothing more. And if he can do anything about war and other bad things, he won't. What a jerk.
Men wrote the bible and it's interpreted the way men want to view it. The same passage is viewed thousands of different ways depending on who you talk to.
All I know is those who believe in the bible or whatever other religious books or religion are all good people and all mean well wanting to save others. So I thank you for your kind thoughts but don't need them. I'm good thanks.
And it's terrible to see all the wars and deaths caused by who's god is the right god. It's sad.
Anyway what is heaven anyway? Paradise forever? How boring is that going to be aver a few hundred years? What if your wife died in a car crash and 24 years later you got remarried and the two of you now die. Will that man now have 2 wifes in heaven? Isnt' that wrong? What if heaven is being allowed to live on earth now and make your own decisions and choices? Ever think of that?
blah... I'm done
I saw this movie a couple of years ago.
I only got to this thread by curiosity.
I felt the film portrayed an interesting take of it's title.
All religions aside, this movie, The Rapture, made me think.
But as I read the posts, I see this film, caused quite a stir.
After reading all the posts, (sorry grace333, I skipped most of your sermons)
I have come to the conclusion that the internet is a great vehicle.
Where else can one speak so freely and not be killed or imprisoned?
This movie is a slice of life. That is all it is.
Mimi Rodger's character is born again and still unhappy.
Life is difficult.
She puts herself and her kid in the desert with no food or water, and after a couple of days with out water, most humans get "weird" physiologically.
The mindset of Mimi's character here, is important because her mind (religious expectations) and body (lack of nutrients) are setting her up for one hallucinogenic ride.
Did she kill her daughter? Yes.
Did she remain in limbo because of her sin of murder? Yes.
Did she accept God? NO.
A slice of life, human style.
The End
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It was perhaps the strongest possible or even the only strong ending for this movie. The whole point is that after what she and by extension many of us have been through it is not good enough even if it were all true. The god that made it and permits it is not worthy of worship even if he is, at long last, worthy of belief.
CB
Good Times, Noodle Salad