The difference between this Punisher and the awful remake is... - The Punisher (1989) Discussion

[–] katthundgris7 18 years ago

Very well said!

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[–] matthewslaughterisangry 18 years ago

Both films had their faults. Dolph's Punisher did a good job of maiming his enemies, but the script made him out to be a mindless psychopath (he talks to God in the sewers??). Jane's Punisher was cold yet calculating & the overall script was centered around his origin rather than just 90 min. of stabbing,shooting,punching bad guys. I own both versions & while neither is perfect, they both have their ups & downs.

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[–] katthundgris7 18 years ago

I cant argue with you. Its all in the eyes of the beholder. Some films just connects better with some people than others.

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[–] itzdahotdog 18 years ago

When it comes to the two movies, I alway see it like this; the 04 was a prequel to the 89. So, whenever I go to watch the Punisher, i'll watch 04 first, that gets the story out of the way (I hear it's more accurate to the comic then 89). And for the badass killing and shooting, i'll watch 89.

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[–] Sirus_51 18 years ago

Hmmmmm... now that there is some fine thinking there. Wish I could do that, but I get Hulk like rage watching the remake.

The part where his son gives him the skull shirt ( ohhh ironic forbading ) makes me wanna go all Lou Ferringo on someones ass.

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[–] king_of_bob 16 years ago

What are you talking about? It's not a remake, it's a movie based on the same source material.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] switch-char 18 years ago

That makes no sense. In 04 he kills the people responsible for murdering his family immediately, pretty much ignoring any other criminals. In 89 he is just The Punisher for 8 years before he gets around to killing the people responsible for murdering his family, and then it's just a coincidence that they're the people he happens to be Punishing right now.

Also, I'd say 89 is much more faithful to the comics. It's essentially exactly the same, only he doesn't wear the skull. 04 changed the character completely, as the OP described.

Original poster, well said. This is exactly what I have thought since seeing the 89 version a few months after 04 came out. 04 was such a huge departure from the entire point of the character it was sickening. The Punisher is about punishment, not revenge. In 04 all he does is get revenge, with a small monologue about how "This isn't punishment. This is revenge". No, it was revenge. If you're unnecessarily recreating what was done to you and applying it to the person who did it to you, in a very contrrived and over-the top way, and ignoring the hundreds of other people who deserve punishment, that's revenge. In 89, he was The Punisher - just going around punishing (sorry, I mean Punishing) criminals for years, without being selfish and going out for revenge.

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[–] Jeorj Euler 9 years ago

When it comes to the two movies, I always see it like this; the 04 was a prequel to the 89.

That's sort of a good idea.

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[–] Infoman45 18 years ago

You're wrong. Do not retreat into a neutral abstraction you silly, spineless tool of a buffoon.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Times_Up 18 years ago

In the 2004 version he is not the Punisher until the end of the movie. Amazing how so few ppl understand that. Maybe they should have had subtitles saying _FROM THIS TIME FORTH HE IS THE PUNISHER_ and rolled the credits? In the old one he is Punisher already when the movie starts. Much like Batman 89 vs. Begins.

They didnt matter in the larger realm ...but they still mattered. Thats what struck me as pathetic.

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[–] DavidCrow 9 years ago

...while neither is perfect, they both have their ups & downs.

Wouldn't the later sort of imply the former?

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[–] Spwn 18 years ago

quote: "No stupid torture of the stoolie with an iceblock then trusting the *beep* mob associate to help him set the Boss guy up."

By the way, that was in the first (or second) issue of The Punisher War Zone -comic.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Commando85 18 years ago

I think the 04 one is MILES ahead of the 89 one. The 04 Punisher was portrayed ACCURATELY and down-to-earth and was more realistic than the 89 punisher.

To all the whiny idiots: The 04 Punisher is how he CAME TO BE the Punisher, and the 89 Punisher is when he's ALREADY the Punisher. Tom Jane is a much better Punisher than Lundgren anyway. At least you can understand what Jane SAYS. And the violence, the brutality, the story and the way Frank Castle was portrayed in the 04 version is WAAAAY better than the 89 version.

2004= Frank Castle
1989= The Punisher

THAT's how it is. GET IT!?

But don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the 89 version, I own it on DVD. It's not GREAT, but it's not BAD.

-"Oh well. I guess you'll just have to kill me."
-"It'll hurt if I do."

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[–] Embee-El 18 years ago

Anyone who thinks the Lundgren Punisher is better than the Thomas Jane Punisher has both limited taste and low expectations of films. I'm not going to say The Punisher (2004) was a perfect film. It was a fair film that is better than most of the critics and haters try to give it credit for.

But in comparing the two films, '04 is clearly the better movie and the setup for a much stronger Punisher storyline than anything the '89 film accomplished. And all those damn close-ups of the skull on the knife as Lundgren threw them took me out of the film and to this day constitute one of the worst (and cheesiest) decisions I've ever seen on film. I still cringe thinking about those shots.

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[–] Sirus_51 18 years ago

I have limited taste.

Sniff..you hurt my feelings.

Just kidding, you have the right to your opnion bubba. It's just that with the 2004 version I kept wondering If I was watching a Punisher movie or your everyday ' You killed my family and going down' kind of film.

In 89 the Punisher punished criminals. Not only those who killed his family but any other criminal who got away with injustice. As for Castle not being the Punisher till the end all I can say is the movie is called Punisher not Frank Castle has a bad day.

Plus he kept wearing the damn shirt through the whole bleeding thing so that kind of screams out to me Punisher movie.

Well sort of Punisher movie.

More Frank Castle plans to trick and hustle his enemies instead of shooting them and saving time.

Pity because Thomas Jane looked the part.

But Dolph acted the part.

( I know acted is loose term but hey who doesnt love the Dolph)

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[–] silentbob75 18 years ago

But yet you prefer a punisher movie where he doesn't wear the shirt at all?
Now that alone makes this one of the worst adaptations I've seen,
if you're gonna make a comic book movie you gotta at least have the characters iconic image.

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[–] king_of_bob 16 years ago

When Jane gets his revenge in the 2004 version, it's much more powerful than simply walking into a room and shooting someone. He made Saint not only kill his best friend, but his wife.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] skiop 16 years ago

Anyone who thinks the Lundgren Punisher is better than the Thomas Jane Punisher has both limited taste and low expectations of films. I'm not going to say The Punisher (2004) was a perfect film.

LOL, that's funny, because the 2004 version is a one-star movie. OK, so the 1989 version is only a two-star movie (though I've seen critics go as high as three stars), but that's still better. Now, I don't always agree with critics, but it's hard to say that they have low expectations.

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[–] king_of_bob 16 years ago

Who's scale are you going by here? So far as I know, there is no standard for granting a movie any number of stars.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] theargonaut187-1 18 years ago

The 1989 version was Doplh cashing in on the action scene. Don't get me wrong, Dolph is one my favorite martial artists, if you don't believe that, go see Showdown in Little Tokyo with Brandon Lee. But the '89 version had no backing from Marvel, hence, no skull shirt. It was a script, he said "Sure," and that was that.

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[–] ksmith-90 18 years ago

I think both versions are equal.

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[–] Sirus_51 18 years ago

Hmmm, interesting I didnt know that they couldnt use the Skull in 89. Explains the skull daggers motiff.

I thought they where trying to be styling.

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[–] Times_Up 18 years ago

But the '89 version had no backing from Marvel, hence, no skull shirt. It was a script, he said "Sure," and that was that.

If they had no backing from Marvel they would have been sued for using the name "The Punisher" in the title and the Frank Castle name and likeness in the film. It was the producers decision. Search google, there is a good article about the writer's loosing fight to have the skull in the film.

UPDATE:

I just watched the film recently and in the opening credits Stan Lee is credited as Executive Consultant.

The way you walked was thorny, through no fault of your own... Your suffering is over....

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[–] cernex 18 years ago

Whoops. Somebody already said what I was going to say. Bummer.

DELETED.

El Cernex

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[–] edward368 18 years ago

dont bother me im eating
"Wipe out the EMO KIDS all of them."

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[–] theshadow908 18 years ago

The Punisher 2004 was way more accurate to the comics than the 1989 version. It's just that 2004 is an ORIGIN story whereas 1989 is not. For a serious Punisher adaptation I watch 2004. For an awesome action film that's loads of fun to watch, 1989 all the way.

Disdaining fortune with his brandish'd steel which smoked with bloody execution.

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[–] lameboymatt 18 years ago

i don't know why everyone hates the new one so much, it was good, not great, but good. fairly decent casting, some of the best art direction and stunt cordination i've seen in a low budget action movie.

i also think that people forget that the story of the punisher is a conflicted tale, but one thats already been told by sooooooooo many movies, there are only so many ways you can say eye for an eye on the big screen, and as far as i'm concerned they did a great job in '04 telling that tell one more time.

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[–] zak_wax 18 years ago

I think people hate the new one because it's lame, whereas the Lundgren version, made 15 years before, is fun, violent, quick-moving and even has a better plot.
Incredible how 2000 remakes turn out to be less daring than their older counterpart : Planet of the Apes, Punisher, even King Kong. Seems we need to have sweeter movies nowadays than we had before.

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[–] panteralife59 18 years ago

Ehh shut up noob. The 2004 version owns hard. One of my favorite movies. He plays the role of The Punisher great and as many have said its about how he became the punisher, so no he doesn't just go around killing people. Anyone can make a movie with a guy that kills people that are bad...and that has been done thousands of times. If you wanna watch a good movie, watch the 2004 version, if you wanna watch some crappy kill this guy because he did something bad, watch the 89 version.

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[–] Lightman42 18 years ago

No, the 89 version is a better film. It comes together better with superior script, director, music, and actors. I'll destroy you with the amount of points I can make about this subject. Punisher 04 was straight up BAD. Especially when compared to one the last great action movies of the 80s.

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[–] south_tx_wanderer_77 18 years ago

i dont remember the punisher riding a motorcycle in the comics, but not very clearly, dolphs punisher rode a bike,, and i recall a van in the comics,,not a muscle car,, either way bot movies were good,, not great seeing as the punisher wasnt an ex cop,, as in the first flick,, but seeing it as a prequel is a good way to view it,, but i like the adaptation explanation better,, because thats the truth,, also they should have introduced chip,, and franks daughters rather than son,, maybe they will make a punisher 2099 movie,,i can see john cena playing that versian,, it could be awesome,, seeing as his acting skills mirror the crappy storyline kudos on the russian punisher fight scene,, straight from the comic almost

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