If whoever drinks from the cup lives forever...
...why did Indy's father die (as was revealed at the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull)?
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MovieChat Forums > Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) Discussion > If whoever drinks from the cup lives for...
He would have to keep drinking from the Grail every day to be immortal and the Grail couldn't leave that room.
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If you drank from the cup of Christ, you would live forever. BUT, you would only be immortal as long as you didn't cross the Great Seal.
The knight said that that "was the price of immortality".
So sure, if Donovan or Henry Sr. wanted to live forever, he would have had to hang around the cave for eternity.
Interesting explanation. I'm going to need to see the film again. That's why the knight decided to stay put besides protecting the Grail.
shareProbably more to protect the Grail. I don't think the knight really cared about immortality as he was to his dedication and duty to protect the Grail from those who might... well - choose poorly.... Just as Kazim and his comrades were protecting the Grail from the outside, the knight guarded it at the temple.
shareWhat a sad life the knight lived then, living to eternity but not really living to enjoy life cooped up in that room.
shareWhat a sad life the knight lived then, living to eternity but not really living to enjoy life cooped up in that room.
Exactly.
The three brother knights were so dedicated to preserving the Grail that the "best" of the three would sacrifice his life of freedom to do so. Very poignant.
I often wondered though what happened to the knight after the Grail crossed the seal. Did he stay or did he cross the seal to either die immediately or live the rest of a natural life. share
Given that the other two knights have not only left alive but made it all the way to europe and were considered the age of 150, the effect is probably just continue the normal aging process from the moment you leave the temple. This would also explain why Indys father died later on as noted in crystal skull but not immediately after leaving.
share"What a sad life the knight lived then, living to eternity but not really living to enjoy life cooped up in that room. "
It's a bit like if you drink too much coffee; you remain alert and not able to sleep, but you are still too tired to do anything fun or creative, so all you can do is just wait it out until you can finally blissfully fall asleep. Except that this knight could never have that bliss.
It's a horrible situation, and it can last for a really long time (even a couple of days, depending on circumstances), but thankfully, the effect finally wears off at some point.
My theory is this cave and seal will be involved in the final scenes of Indy 5.
shareThe Grail just rejuvenates you, in order to remain immortal you have to keep drinking. Henry obviously didn't.
shareI wonder if the knight was already an old man when he and his band of templars first discovered the Grail or if he just allowed himself to gradually age as a way to tempt his duty between everlasting life and service.
shareTo be perfectly honest this movie was so stupid I never really cared. Kind of like how I don't care that the knight is speaking modern English for some reason.
shareI was not expecting that kind of response, haha! (^ ^)
It's possible sir knight saw other treasure hunters through the centuries and picked up on their linguistics. Or the language was dumbed down and simplified for the audience.
The Grail just rejuvenates you, in order to remain immortal you have to keep drinking.
I don't think that was the deal. If you drank from the Grail, you would achieve immortality, but *only* if you didn't cross the seal. That was the "price for immortality", and why it was an ironic ending that even if Donovan did manage to correctly choose and then drink from the Holy Grail, he still wouldn't have achieved immortality unless his plan was to stay in the cave forever. share
No, the GRAIL could not cross the Great Seal. You could go whenever you wished, just not with it.
That's correct, but those wishing to be immortal couldn't cross the great seal either if they wanted to be immortal, which is what I said.
You would achieve immortality if you drank from the Grail and didn't cross the great seal. If you drank from the Grail, you would be healed, but you would live the balance of your normal life if you decided to cross the seal and leave. The Grail itself was not allowed to cross the seal.
As was said you don't live forever unless you stay in the cave where they found the grail. And yeah. I do think it's funny that Donovon would never get what he wanted even if he had gotten the right grail. The getting killed by the wrong grail reminds me of in the first one where Belloq ended up thinking he could gain immortality from the Ark only to have the Ark kill him.
shareIt was said that the grail does not work outside the barier, so probably the effects stopped the moment they lost it.
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I don't think anyone said it wouldn't work outside the barrier
The knight just said that the grail cannot PASS beyond the great seal. "That is the boundary and the price of immortality."
Maybe you could chuck it outside and run for it, but we never see anyone try thanks to Elsa. Then again, the cave actually starts coming down before she actually crosses the seal. Maybe the cave can read minds or gauge intentions.
Also, I doubt Donovan would have to drink out of it EVERY day, just enough to stave off health problems from aging. Maybe he just needs to hit that cave once a month or so.
Donovan could not leave the cave if he drank from it because all the things grail does to him no longer affect him outside the barrier.
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Again, there's nothing to suggest the grail's effects don't last outside the cave
Henry Jones, Sr., didn't start bleeding from his bullet wound outside the cave
The knight's brother is said to have died of "extreme old age," suggesting that he was old but in perfect health when he left the cave, and therefore went on to live for decades afterwards
Finally, in the Indiana Jones TV show (which was intended to be in continuity with the films), Indy is shown in modern times well into his nineties, yet still driving a monster truck and acting like a guy in his sixties.
In other words, drinking from the grail in the cave seems to reset your health to "perfect," and you go on living from there.
What Donovan didn't count on was that the grail heals, but doesn't halt the aging process. Like Tithonus, you can have eternal life, but not eternal youth. Eventually, like the knight, you grow too weak to raise your sword.
I explained this in another thread. The only way you could remain immortal, was to drink from the grail, but never walk past the Great Seal in the temple. Otherwise, the immortality is lost, and you start aging again normally. So, despite Indy and his dad drinking from the grail, and Dr. Jones Sr. having his bullet wound healed up, they passed the Great Seal and left, becoming mortal once more.
That, and by the time they made "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull," Sean Connery had retired and refused to do a cameo in the new movie.
"...but the grail cannot pass beyond the great seal; that is the boundary and the price of immortality."
It doesn't say anything about people passing; just about the grail itself. What I believe is that because Elsa tried to take it beyond the seal, they lost their immortality right away. Pretty shoddy actualy towards those people who drank from it centuries ago and now are all mortal again without even knowing :-)
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^That seems like a better explanation.
shareIt really shocks me how many people do not understand how the grail worked.
Drinking from the grail once did not mean you would live forever. Nor did its effects wear off if you left the cave.
The grail made your body healthier and would heal whatever wounds you may have had, or anything unhealthy about you at the time. For example, Indy might have been a year away from having a massive heart attack but drinking from the grail cleared his arteries. You would still age, and eventually die, but at a slower pace than normal, and in better health for longer.
The only way the Grail would make you immortal would be if you drank from it every day, or on a regular basis, which is obviously what the Knight was doing. And even then, his body still aged, and he didn't have the strength to fight Indy.
The Grail is the only thing that can't cross the great seal. Anyone who drinks from the Grail can cross the seal and leave the cave, and still have the benefits of having drank from it, but the Grail itself cannot cross the seal. So, when the Knight said, "That's the limit and price of immortality." he was saying that the only way to live forever would be to stay in the cave and drink from the Grail consistently like he did. Otherwise, when you left the cave without the Grail, you would eventually die, although it might not be for another century, like his brother who left the cave.