I didn't connect with the movie, finding it endlessly tedious. Then out of nowhere, one of the boys commits suicide.
Fair enough and you are welcome to your opinion. That being said, this indicates to me that you didn't like or understand the film which means you are probably LOOKING for things that simply are not there as a way to justify an action that you feel is out of nowhere. The suicide was not out of nowhere--the whole situation was built up from nearly the very first scene of the film and death was alluded to very explicitly early on in the film as well. But, if you're surfing the net or dicking around on your smart phone during the movie then these things are easy to miss. I am not going to assume you were doing that but I think it is possible and I am just addressing that possibility. :P
No, suicide was not built up from the start. The inevitability of death is not the same as suicide. Mr Keating was driven to teach at that school in part because of his war experiences, but he was urging the boys to live, not die.
I saw the film at a film group screening at the ANU. I don't own a smart phone.
Again, the reasons were spelled out from nearly the start of the film. Because you did not pick up on what was made 100% clear OR because you are simply not able to relate to his situation or able to understand his point of view or his feelings does not mean that there is some other hidden issue that we do not know about.
Try listing those reasons, rather than repeatedly saying I didn't understand the film.
It's set in the '50s yet never makes any direct or overt reference to the time period.
Other than when they ANNOUNCED the year in the first three minutes of the film.
I just looked up the film to see what you're talking about.
Some dude gives a speech that starts with "100 years ago, in 1859…"
So the year was given. But not announced. The opening credits were rolling, the camera wasn't on him at the time, and it's easy to miss. That's why no-one else here has yet mentioned the year. Because it's not direct, or overt. It's mentioned once, indirectly, when other things are going on.
Only after many small touches of costume and behaviour does the '50s setting become clear, and even then it's a guess. I wasn't sure whether it wasn't late '40s or early '60s until I read about the movie later.
Once again...your inattention to something that was made 100% clear immediately in the film somehow equates to the film being unclear and so subtle that you weren't sure what decade it was. Okay. :)
It wasn't 100%. It was a hint buried 3 minutes in. You'll find that most people missed it. Some authority figure gives a droning speech with a lot of numbers, mentioning years and graduated students, while the credits roll, and while we're being introduced to the film. It's never mentioned again.
It was quite unclear, and definitely subtle.
Being secretly gay gives a much more plausible motive for suicide.
Yes, nothing on earth could make a teenager want to kill himself except being gay. And once again, this says more about you than it does anything. YOU do not feel that anything he was going through could possibly be a reason for him to make that choice. Therefore, he MUST be gay.
You're given lots of sarcasm, but no actual counter argument. What were Neil's reasons, if he wasn't gay?
It wasn't a matter of waiting until he was 18, or finishing medical school in 10 years. It wasn't a matter of doing a job he didn't like instead of one he had passion for.
Yeah, it was. To NEIL it was.
The words you have quoted are a part of the hypothesizing that Neil was gay. If he was gay, then it wasn't a matter of those things.
It was about denying his true self for the rest of his life.
No, it was not. Neil couldn't even see past the ten year jail sentence of military school (which, again, he specifically SAID); had he been able to then he would not have killed himself. And now not only was he being cut off from things he enjoyed and had a passion for but he was also being taken away from his friends and being uprooted entirely.
He wasn't going to military school for 10 years. He was going to finish high school at a military school, then go to Harvard, then medical school. In all, a total of 10 years.
Now, maybe Harvard and medical school aren't a non-stop party, but they're hardly a jail. Nor is being a doctor.
So we're back to the problem: why would he rather die than live a life of luxury? There are poor people who struggle their whole lives to become doctors because of the lifestyle it can afford. That's why the dad pushes it on his son.
As for losing his friends, they were all soon done at that school anyway. Even if they weren't, it seems strange that he'd immediately kill himself. That's a sure way of never seeing his friends again, or making any other friends.
He wanted to be uprooted. He wanted to become an actor. He wanted a different life.
In Neil's final moments, he strips naked in front of his open bedroom windows, feeling the winter night on his skin.
Wrong again--we very clearly see that he is NOT nude. He is not wearing a shirt, that is all. We see his pants multiple times.
Half wrong. He was half naked.
There was snow outside his window. It was clearly very cold, yet he opened the window and stood there, feeling the winter night air on his skin, while wearing the wreath and closing his eyes.
I was under the impression that he went downstairs naked, but after looking again, there is a hint of pants visible above his bare feet. It's hard to tell, since the shot was so dark. All of the shots after that were above the waist.
The point is that he was connecting with his physical self. That suggests repression. People don't like being cold. Neil exposed himself to the cold on purpose, to feel something physical. He closed his eyes to immerse himself in tactile sensation.
It seems to me these are actions of a person desperate to be themselves, and feeling cornered by loved ones and a wider society that will never accept who he really is.
You have this right until you start with the babbling about society. Society was not even remotely the issue. Not one person oppressed Neil or did anything other than fully support him except his father. His mother of course was clearly on his side but was unable to stand up for him and instead just let it all go along as it may.
You don't seem to understand hypotheticals. I am saying that Neil was gay. If he was gay, then 1950s USA society was very much an oppressive place.
Neil clearly didn't have the courage to speak up for himself, and talk about what he really wanted. That makes for unhappiness, not suicidality.
But if it was more than just a career issue, actor vs doctor, then the suicide makes more sense.
In the social setting of Dead Poets Society, Neil's being gay seems the only thing that adequately explains Neil's choice.
So, really, this entire opinion and silly post is about you and what YOU deem to be acceptable reasons for suicide and what YOU deem to be understandable reasons for a young man to take his life. It's not about the film or the character at ALL.
You haven't provided a single reason yourself.
Since you reject the idea that he was gay, then there are two other options for Neil's suicide.
1. he was mentally ill.
2. it was contrived film making.
Nothing in the film suggested he was so unbalanced as to spontaneously commit suicide. Nothing in the film suggested he was depressed enough to commit suicide. So this option is really also contrived.
In summation, no, Neil was not gay. There is not one thing that points to this. Not a single thing, subtle or not. There are no hidden messages, no signs of it, it is never discussed or alluded to. But because you yourself cannot relate to a character or the film in any way it automatically means that there is no explanation other than Neil is gay.
I imagine you must be very young to have such a lack of empathy and to have found Neil's suicide in the film to be something to laugh about simply because you couldn't understand it. Oh, and the fact that you seem to be obsessed with gayness to the point that you feel it is the only reason that makes any sense for someone to commit suicide even though there is ZERO evidence to suggest it.
You're missing the point entirely.
There was nothing to make Neil commit suicide. There is not one thing that points to this. Not a single thing, subtle or not. There are no hidden messages, no signs of it, it is never discussed or alluded to.
Yet he did commit suicide. Why?
Even if he was gay, it's still not very good film making. But at least that makes some kind of sense.
In my experience, suicidal people either show indicators, or have secrets. It's not something people just do for a laugh.
Anyway, give me your explanation for Neil's suicide.
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A couple I know are getting married...
...the fools
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dorseybelle
9 years ago
When your circumstances appear bleak, with no resolution in sight; when you are backed into a corner that you can't find a way out of; when you are so emotionally destitute, you can't see the future; suicide seems like the answer. Not to be selfish, not to hurt anyone (intentionally), but to go somewhere that you don't have to worry about anything. The world has become a very dark and unfriendly place that can be perceived as a painful place to be.
Did you ever work at Pizza Hut? No, but I ate there a lot.
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dermotps
8 years ago
I know this is extremely late, but I just re-watched DPS and wanted to comment. :)
Some dude gives a speech that starts with "100 years ago, in 1859…"
So the year was given. But not announced. The opening credits were rolling, the camera wasn't on him at the time, and it's easy to miss.
Considering "some dude" was the headmaster giving a welcome speech and was the focal point of that scene, that is indeed on you that you missed it. There was literally nothing else going on in that scene. The camera was panning over the students listening raptly to the speech. But this is frankly an unimportant point - the story could have been set in the present, and still would have been plausible.
Being secretly gay gives a much more plausible motive for suicide. [...] What were Neil's reasons, if he wasn't gay?
I'm guessing you had a nice, average childhood, with fairly reasonable parents. :) I didn't - I had a parent fairly similar to Neil's, though mine wasn't quite as overbearing as Mr. Perry. However, the pressure to do well in school and become a doctor did get quite overwhelming, to the point that I contemplated suicide as a teen because I thought I couldn't handle it any more. At the time, I felt trapped into a life that I didn't want, and death seemed like the easiest way to escape it. Sexuality had nothing to do with it. All I saw was a world that was closing in on me, and I didn't know what else to do.
And that's what happened to Neil - he was filled with despair because all he could see in his future was a world where roads were being closed off, and the only one left was leading him to a life that he didn't want. Death meant that his father couldn't control him any more. Finally, there was a choice that he could make for himself, so he made it.
If he was gay, then it wasn't a matter of those things. It was about denying his true self for the rest of his life. [...] He wasn't going to military school for 10 years. He was going to finish high school at a military school, then go to Harvard, then medical school. In all, a total of 10 years.
Now, maybe Harvard and medical school aren't a non-stop party, but they're hardly a jail. Nor is being a doctor.
It is if it's not the life you want. And while ten years is not an eternity, it's not exactly a short period of time either.
Sexuality doesn't have anything to do with having a career that is fulfilling and makes you happy. Neil was being forced onto a career path that he neither wanted nor chose. If you don't agree that such a life would be miserable, why don't you become my indentured servant for ten years? It won't last forever, and it won't be a jail, but you do have to do everything I tell you to. How does that sound? Also, I think it would be good for you, so you should do it.
So we're back to the problem: why would he rather die than live a life of luxury? There are poor people who struggle their whole lives to become doctors because of the lifestyle it can afford. That's why the dad pushes it on his son.
Just because other people might want it doesn't mean it's for everyone. And who says being a doctor is a life of luxury? It's actually quite a lot of hard work - you have to constantly research and study the newest medical techniques and breakthroughs, lest you miss something that could save your patients. You are constantly in danger of malpractice and frivolous lawsuits. If you work in a hospital, you're constantly on-call or on-duty at odd hours, and you don't always get holidays or weekends off. And it's pretty stressful - you have to constantly compartmentalize, and even if you tell patients what to do or not do, there's no guarantee they'll do it, and they'll still blame you if they don't get better. TL;DR - it's not for everyone.
My parent pushed a medical career on me too, for that same reason - respect and money and a good life. But money can't buy happiness. Why do you think actor Ken Jeong gave up being a doctor and decided to become a comedic actor instead?
As for losing his friends, they were all soon done at that school anyway. Even if they weren't, it seems strange that he'd immediately kill himself. That's a sure way of never seeing his friends again, or making any other friends.
Being done with high school doesn't mean you'll never see your friends again. Most of my high school friends went to the same universities and kept in touch with each other.
He wanted to be uprooted. He wanted to become an actor. He wanted a different life.
Perhaps. But if he had done so, it would have been his choice, not his father's, and that makes all the difference. Even if he failed, like the song says, he would have done it "my way."
The point is that he was connecting with his physical self. That suggests repression. People don't like being cold. Neil exposed himself to the cold on purpose, to feel something physical. He closed his eyes to immerse himself in tactile sensation.
I always interpreted that scene as he was preparing to leave everything (i.e. his parents, the clothes his parents bought for him) behind and step out on his own - in this case, to death. He wanted to feel cold because, again, it was his choice to do so. His father wanted him to go to bed, so he defied his father's last orders in every way that he possibly could. It made him feel free, the same way being in a play made him feel free. He put on Puck's crown so he could re-live that freedom and embrace it with his final actions.
You don't seem to understand hypotheticals. I am saying that Neil was gay. If he was gay, then 1950s USA society was very much an oppressive place.
Neil clearly didn't have the courage to speak up for himself, and talk about what he really wanted. That makes for unhappiness, not suicidality.
But if it was more than just a career issue, actor vs doctor, then the suicide makes more sense.
Sexuality isn't the only thing that can oppress people, even in the 1950s. The issue wasn't so much the career, as the lack of choice in his life. He watched his father systematically shut down every avenue in his life that he wanted to explore, and he didn't want to take it any more. You don't seem to understand that there is more than one kind of lack of acceptance that can lead to utter despair.
Also, Neil didn't just lack the courage to speak up for himself - he lacked the opportunity to be heard. And he realized it too, which just added to his despair. He could have told his father what he wanted, but his father was not willing to listen. You can't make someone listen if they don't want to. The only interactions we see between them in the movie was when his father shut him down. What makes you think his father would have listened even if he did tell him what he wanted?
There was nothing to make Neil commit suicide. There is not one thing that points to this. Not a single thing, subtle or not. There are no hidden messages, no signs of it, it is never discussed or alluded to.
Yet he did commit suicide. Why?
Even if he was gay, it's still not very good film making. But at least that makes some kind of sense.
In my experience, suicidal people either show indicators, or have secrets. It's not something people just do for a laugh.
Anyway, give me your explanation for Neil's suicide.
Why do you think Neil committed suicide for a laugh? He was a teenager riding a roller coaster of feelings. He had just had the best night of his life, followed by the worst night of his life - his father berating him and effectively imprisoning him (in case you need me to spell out why it was a prison - he was taking Neil away from his friends and from any chance to act or pursue his own interests again, and putting him in a place he didn't want to be). There were no "signs" or "secret messages" because Neil's suicide was an spontaneous decision motivated by pure despair, not a long-thought-out plan. In his mind, he could either go to prison, or he could escape through death. It's like being trapped in a burning building - he could complacently wait for death to come to him, or he could choose to jump out of the window and die on his own terms. He chose the latter.
Neil's death was a slow culmination of everything that happened in the movie. Mr. Perry's unilateral decision to send him to military school wasn't the only reason he made that choice, but it was certainly the straw that broke the camel's back. Think about it: Neil was bright and outgoing, clearly popular and a leader amongst his friends, but he was helpless to manage his own life. Everything he wanted for himself - being an assistant editor for the yearbook, acting - was taken away. Mr. Keating tried to give him the strength to stand up for himself, but he couldn't do it, exposing his own weakness. His father's refusal to acknowledge his theatrical success added despair that he would never gain his father's acceptance or support for what *Neil himself* wanted. To sum up - long years of being helpless, weak, and desperate, and finally being exiled to a life he didn't want - that's why he committed suicide in the end. You can only take so much away from a person before they decide life isn't worth it any more.
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