MovieChat Forums > Manhunter (1986) Discussion > What *made* this film for you? (possible...

What *made* this film for you? (possible spoilers)


A thread like this used to exist and was most interesting so I'm re-inventing it.

At what point during your viewing of the film did this film suck you in and you fall in love with and/or admire the film?

For me it was the 'tiger' scene: the music (Shriekback's Coelocanth) so perfectly setting the mood for a sensual and erotic scene saved from peversity by the emotions of Reba caressing the tiger and Dollarhyde imagining himself as the tiger, perhaps. It was perfect in capturing the relationship between Reba and Dollarhyde. The lighting upon Joan Allen's skin gave a sense of spiritual ecstasy too. And it was a real tiger, wow!

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

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Probably the tiger scene, too...also the love scene between Reba and Dollarhyde, their relationship is disturbing yet so moving!
I think that all the scenes between Tom Noonan and Joan Allen are among the best Mann has ever shot, the actors, use of music and direction in these scenes are incredible.
And William Petersen's performance in the film is awesome, so intense and introverted/underplayed at the same time...probably my favorite male performance and character in Mann's filmography.

http://www.myspace.com/guillaumep
http://darioargentofr.blogspot.com/

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Yes the Dollarhyde-Reba scenes had the best songs - Coelocanth, This Big Hush and In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida, even Strong as I Am. My second favourite scene is the supermarket scene with Will and Kevn and the ugliest thoughts in the world conversation followed by Dollarhyde crying in bed with Reba's hand over his face as my third favourite.

As I recall when this thread existed before the scene that grabbed most posters was Graham touching the window and saying 'you've seen these films, haven't you my man'. That's another great scene and the music in that scene is great as well.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

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There are many stunning and haunting moments in this film.
All the Dollarhyde/Reba scenes, also the scene when Graham is visiting the houses...the one with the woman with "silver in the mirror of her eyes" is a creepy bit.
The scene you said when Graham is resolving the mystery is incredible!!!...great performance from Petersen in this scene and the music building to a crescendo, wow!
Also the supermarket scene is remarkably written and acted indeed, and you can even add the pier bit after this scene...i love the use of the "Graham's theme" when Will and Molly are talking, Will becoming more and more obssessed with the case, isolated from his family...the cafeteria bit when Graham is touching the window, at the end of this scene, is so haunting.


http://www.myspace.com/guillaumep
http://darioargentofr.blogspot.com/

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the one with the woman with "silver in the mirror of her eyes" is a creepy bit
Yes!

This is making me recall all my favourite scenes and by the time I'm through I'll have named all the film's scenes!

Also: the scene between Dollarhyde and Lounds, 'before me you are a slug in the sun ...'

The dead woman's voice on the answerphone and Graham's 'I'm sorry too' hearing her recorded message. So subtle and so heartbreaking.

The way Mann shows us, very rapidly and almost subliminally, the murder scene photos as seen by the young girl who is unlucky enough to be seated next to Graham on the plane.

And finally, the confrontation at Dollarhyde's house. I love that whole segment: the build up with the faxed ID cards, the drive and cutting the car lights, Dollarhyde blasting with a shotgun and throwing Graham against the fridge as though Graham weighed no more than any of the contents that smash on the floor next to him. Thrilling finale. I don't care that it didn't conform to the book's ending. Dollarhyde bleedng to death in the shape of the red dragon - inspired.
I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

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There are too many memorable moments in the film!
The opening scene is also disturbing and creepy with the killer's POV, Mann subtly cutting before the slaughtering.
The meeting with Lektor is also tense and claustrophobic and i love Petersen's frantic sprint and angst panic, what a tormented man he is, the pressure on his shoulders in this film is incredible! (a bit like the poor Jeffrey Wigand/Russell Crowe in "The Insider")

http://www.myspace.com/guillaumep
http://darioargentofr.blogspot.com/

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i love how they cut the lights on the police cruisers and one of them crashes into the ditch and one of the cops is seriously injured, feels like such a realistic thing that would happen


Lee's Daniel's' THe Butler'

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For me it was the tiger scene and the soundtrack and cinematography.

"Because of my big legs and my karate, I can do the splits......Noo...Prroblemm"

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I think the various scenes of Graham deducing the Tooth Fairy's m.o. and motives are my favourite.

Two best examples are when he works out that Francis took his rubber gloves off at one of the murders. He exclaims it with contempt at the killer's (relative) carelessness. Not the elation that an investigator might have when realising that he might have discovered physical evidence which could break the case open.

The other is of course the realisation that the killer has seen the same videos that Graham is watching of the murder victims. With this discovery Graham expresses pride. But is it pride at his own skills or is it admiration of the killer's? The action following that of Crawford calling the evidence room and confirming Graham's theory is played like an anti-climax for them or at least for Graham who seems either sadly reflective or apprehensive about where this is going to take them now. Speaking for myself, I think this part of the movie is the most thrilling. At least if not more so than the actual "climax" of Dollarhyde's killing.




@Twitzkrieg - Glasgow's FOREMOST authority

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Speaking for myself, I think this part of the movie is the most thrilling.
From what I recall of the original thread most poster's cited this moment as the one that *made* the film for them. It's well done and there is triumph in the swelling music. You make a good point: Is Graham satisfied with finding the key or marvelling at what was so obvious to him all along but elusive, like the killer?
Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida running jump through the window scene.

Truthfully I didn't love the movie, but it doesn't help that I was tired and half falling asleep when I watched it, like seeing double, head-nod mode. That window scene woke me up quick though, ha, and the chaos that followed it. One of the most badass uses of soundtrack/action blending I ever saw, if that makes sense.

Another scene that really stood out to me, and kinda made me perk up, though for the wrong reasons, was in the grocery store. He's talking to his son in the breakfast cereal isle, and behind him you can see a box of Boo Berry. Now in Canada we get Count Chocula, but no Boo Berry for some reason. Still, as a kid I was cock-teased by the Boo Berry commercials on Saturday and to this day I never got to try it. I did get to try Cookie Crisp finally, but that's a story for another thread. Now, I couldn't be bothered with what they were saying in that scene, as I was more fixated on the cereal selections in the background. Then they cut to a scene where they are talking in front of the corn soup instead so it stood out like a sore thumb, but I was all like "Movie goofs! Yeah I watched this movie real good" and kinda nodded off again. But the whole time I kept thinking "hey, why aren't you reaching for the Boo Berry? Don't you know there are starving kids in Canada who don't even get to have any?"

The stuff with the blind woman was pretty cool though, but it was that In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida window scene later on that finally sold me.

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Your post made me smile. I really like the supermarket (grocery store) scene but for the opposite reasons to you! I've never noticed the goof before.

I agree about the fusion of music and image in the film and that's part of the reason I like the tiger scene so much, which you might have slept through ... Loved the use of In-a-Gadda-da-Vida and thought the shoot out at Dollarhyde's house was exciting and visceral.

Why problem make? When you no problem have, you don't want to make ...

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Yes the tiger scene was pretty cool as well. Wouldn't say it made the film for me, but an interesting scene for certain. Truthfully I gotta watch this one again when I'm not so tired, I'm sure I'll appreciate it more (was a case of it had been on my "to see" list for a long time, finally rented it, but got busy, suddenly it's due back in like 3 hours whether my head was in it or not. I kinda forced myself to watch it, tired, so I could return it quick and avoid the late fee) ... As for the grocery store scene, reading it back I might have been a bit hard on 'em there, but I maintain every word about the cereal, ha

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I liked the fact that this film made us see Dollarhyde's vulnerable side as well as his sickness. This is probably the one film where the audience really gets to step into the killer's shoes because we're given something to identify with (unlike, say, Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs, where all we see is his depravity). It's uncomfortable and fascinating at the same time.

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Edward, was there a particular moment or scene where this was captured for you?

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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Most of Dollarhyde's scenes with Reba showed his human and vulnerable side. If I I had pick one, it would be the scene where he's in bed crying, covering up his face with Reba's hand. You could tell that there was a part of him who didn't want to be a killer, who wanted to stop, and who naively hoped that the relationship with Reba would save him from himself.

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The film's score and William Peterson's intense performance of a haunted man.

I also thought both Tom Noonan and Brian Cox were much more compelling than their counterparts in SOTL.

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I also thought both Tom Noonan and Brian Cox were much more compelling than their counterparts in SOTL.


Noonan certainly made a much more lasting impression than the surprisingly underwhelming Fiennes in Red Dragon.

As for the Cox vs. Hopkins debate, I don't want to open that can of worms, but one of the main problems I had with Red Dragon (the film) was that it made Hannibal Lecter the centerpiece of the story to capitalize on the character's commercial popularity from SoTL. Lecter was a secondary if interesting character in the novel, as he was in Manhunter.

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I think Hopkins has an elegance about him that is undeniable, and it was used to quite good effect for his role in SOTL, but there was something borderline hammy in his acting. Not to say that he wasn't very entertaining, because he certainly was. But for whatever reason, I prefer Brian Cox.

I saw "Red Dragon" and, yes, I agree that Ralph Fiennes was underwhelming. Actually, that whole movie was kind of underwhelming.

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I think Hopkins has an elegance about him that is undeniable, and it was used to quite good effect for his role in SOTL, but there was something borderline hammy in his acting. Not to say that he wasn't very entertaining, because he certainly was. But for whatever reason, I prefer Brian Cox


Cox gave an interpretation of Lecter as a very intelligent man who happens to be a serial killer, so he was entirely believable. Hopkins gave Lecter an almost supernatural aura.

Part of this is due to the fact that in Red Dragon, Lecter was fleshed out as a much more realistic and believable killer than in SOTL or the sequel. So the difference has as much to do with Harris as with Cox vs. Hopkins.

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Supernatural? Hmmm... I'm not sure, but I think I would use the word flamboyant or "larger than life". Can you elaborate on your word choice here?

There was definitely something untouchable about Hopkins as HL, but to me "supernatural" connotes stuff like ESP/mysticism, LOL... Maybe I am just being too picky about words.

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it would be the scene where he's in bed crying, covering up his face with Reba's hand. You could tell that there was a part of him who didn't want to be a killer, who wanted to stop, and who naively hoped that the relationship with Reba would save him from himself.
Yes that's a fantastic scene and the complex depiction of Dollarhyde as part-monster, part-human, is one of the things I most value in this film.
Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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So would it be fair to say that the scene in Lecter's cell and immediately afterwards captured the wow of the cinematography and got you?

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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The whole package really. The cast is perfect, Dollarhyde is one of the most fascinating villains in a movie I've ever seen and Brian Cox is a much more sinister Lecter imo. Hopkins was a little bit Universal Dracula... Cox really oozed menace. The colouring and cinematography is beautiful, and the score and use of original music is perfect.

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Duty Now For The Future

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Completely agree with your remarks contrasting Cox and Hopkins as Lecter. So what would your favourite scenes or moments in the film be? For example with Cox/Lecter, was it the meeting between him and Graham in his cell? With Dollarhyde there could be any number.

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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What makes this film for me is Petersen, Cox & Noonan's performances
plus the music.

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Thanks for your post. Without wishing to be nit picky, were there particular moments when any of the performances gave you goosebumps or chills?

I loved the music, particularly how well each song fit with the activity on screen.

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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Yes, the part that always gives me chills is when Hannibal (Cox)
asks Graham (Petersen), "Do You Know How You Caught Me?"
and Graham runs out. I definitely got chills when first seeing
Hannibal (Anthony Hopkins) in "Silence of the Lambs."

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Both Hopkins and Cox give amazing performances, though they affect us in different ways. Hopkins is much more 'showy' in his role and Cox is more subtle. Hopkins goes for the entertainment value, while Cox seems much creepier, in comparison. Cox delivers a throwaway line and it's more terrifying, while Hopkins seems to relish in the little gestures and the tauntings of Clarice.

Both are amazing performances, in their own right.

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The little flashback when he's in the plane.

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