MovieChat Forums > Rambo: First Blood Part II (1985) Discussion > How the hell did we lose Viet Nam?

How the hell did we lose Viet Nam?


Why didn't Rambo just go nuts like this in the first place back in '68?

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[deleted]

Probably cause Rambo was a pimply faced 18 year old recruit in 1968.

-The person who said the USA never bombed North Vietnam is dead wrong. Hell, they bombed and invaded Cambodia and Laos.

Honestly I think the USA could have "won" Vietnam, if they invaded the North, fully. And by "win" I mean it would end up like Iraq/Afghanistan right now, i.e. 10 plus year occupation, but with a probably worse and more effective insurgency operations.

Either that or nuclear war with China. More likely increased political/civilian opposition too for such an insane amount of effort/bloodshed.

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The reason we lost in Vietnam was we underestimated the opposition. We were fighting on their home turf. The kind of jungle warefare was something totally new to us we had no real idea of who was the enemy and who wasn't. Added to this the aid to the North from china in limitless arms and personnel and there was no way we were going to win without dropping a nuke and let's face it, South Vietnam was not worth starting WW3 over.

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I always get a kick out of the argument that "we [America] were fighting in alien territory by people who saw us as occupiers" as if to say that such people can never be defeated. Similar to the whole "we would've had to kill every single person in the country." By that same logic, there shouldn't have been a single empire in human history. If those arguments were true, then how did the Romans conquer north Africa and parts of the Middle East? How did the Muslim Caliphate encompass lands from Spain to India? How did the French colonize Indochina? How did the Spanish control the Phillipines? Hell, how did WE control the Phillipines?! Were all of these lands not "alien to their occupiers"?

Simple. Because, contrary to popular belief, insurgencies are usually defeated. Many insurgents might be strong-willed, but it's important to recognize that they aren't supermen; they are human, they are susceptible to the same psychological influences that we in the west are. Their wills can be broken. If they fight for years and suffer lots of casualties for a long period without much - if any - tangible results, that can wear them down. Not to mention the effect that ONE decicive defeat can have. We saw that in the aftermath of Tet; the VK were down for the count, and the NVA was demoralized. The ONLY reason why the war wasn't over then was because they saw how the battle was (mis)represented in the west.

Nixon eventually did order an aggressive bombing capaign of the North, and it caused the north to sign the peace accord. If we'd simply enforced the terms of the accord (which the north violated when they treaded lightly in the south), it would've gone down as a win for us. They only became more aggressive when it became clear that we weren't going to obey our own law. It is unconscionable to me that we allowed that to happen.

At "we were afraid of China." Um, newsflash........China was Maoist. Vietnam was Stalinist. Vietnam fought a war against Cambodia, who then were ruled by the Maoist Khmer Rouge. This was partially a war by proxy between China & USSR. USSR was red Vietnam's main ally, not China. Hell, China directly invaded Vietnam in 1979.

In response to the poster who said "America backed the Khmer Rouge"........god, I don't even know where to begin. First of all, from 1970-75, Cambodia was ruled by the conservative, anti-communist Lon Nol, whom we supported against the Khmer Rouge, who at the time were supported by both China and USSR, and North Vietnam, for that matter (North Vietnam was also supported by both USSR and China at the time). Our involvement in Vietnam ended in 1973; the KR didn't overthrow Lon Nol until 1975. Shortly thereafter, the KR invaded red Vietnam; this was the war by proxy mentioned above. This war ended with the Stalinist vietnamese conquering Cambodia and setting up a Stalinist regime there. During the 80s, an anti-Stalinist coalition took shape in Cambodia, which Reagan supported. This coalition included a number of groups; the KR happened to be among them. Also among them was the moderate prince Sihanouk and his supporters (he ruled Cambodia prior to Lon Nol).

"I am certain that there is far too much certainty in the world." -Michael Crichton

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Because advanced weaponry and training means very little when you're enemy are insurgents who have nothing to lose, and don't mind hiding out in holes and swamps and caves all day, and consider killing you the primary meaning of their entire existence, and death worth dying for.

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We lost because everyone smoked pot then. It made our troops weak.

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[deleted]

Old thread but its still funny to read the brit twits comments about the USA.

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We could have carpet bombed Hanoi from the beginning like we did with Tokyo, Dresden, and Leipzig in World War II. In the end the North Vietnamese were bombed to the negotiating table. The full force of the US military wasn't allowed due to the interference of liberals and Democrats at home.

In Chris Kyle's book American SNiper he also talks about the ridiculous rules of engagement the US troops in Iraq had to fight under in order to minimize civilian casualties. Of course civilians should never be targeted, but preserving the lives of Americans is infinitely more important than trying to minimize casulaties among foreign civilians.

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Amazing how the armchair generals think war is about total elimination of a race or civilisation? Maybe this gross misunderstanding of the world is why you think wars have been lost or even won? There are no winners or losers as real warfare is extremely complicated and can't be explained on a movie forum. However if it were as simple as nuking everyone outside the USA then the US could accomplish this by this afternoon and the whole world will be yours and yours alone. Thankfully your leaders and other leaders around the world are not that stupid.

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In Chris Kyle's book American SNiper he also talks about the ridiculous rules of engagement the US troops in Iraq had to fight under in order to minimize civilian casualties. Of course civilians should never be targeted, but preserving the lives of Americans is infinitely more important than trying to minimize casulaties among foreign civilians.


Infinitely, really? I mean more important would already be cringe worthy^^ but infinitely??

American nationalists are really the most pathetic scum that wanders the earth..

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The full force of the US military wasn't allowed due to the interference of liberals and Democrats at home.


Those damn liberals! We could have won if we just dropped 1000 nukes!

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To answer your question seriously, turn to Dwight Eisenhower:

In the Nuclear Age limited wars are unwinnable, and total wars are unthinkable.

Give Blood Today
God Bless!

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well when the yanks start shooting and bombing civilians that's basically game over.



Iraq, Afghanistan you dumb asses never learn

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