I saw this movie years ago when I was a teen. I always assumed Vernon's "take a shot" offer was genuine, and that Bender backed down purely out of fear.
I watched the scene again and see it a bit different now. Vernon's offer seems like entrapment, and I wonder if Bender is also apprehensive for that reason, as well as being afraid of fighting?
I think it's both, but mostly fear (and shock). But even if Bender really had the courage to fight Vernon, he knew everything Vernon said ("You think anyone is gonna take your word over mine?") was true. So in the end, Bender couldn't do anything about it.
Hey there, Johnny Boy, I hope you fry!
I think John received a lot of emotional abuse at home and so acted like a cornered dog all the time.
Vernon messing with him was another authority figure abusing him, and I think John retreated the way he would with his dad.
And yes, I think his story about his dad putting the cigarette out on him was real.
1. I think the principal guy might have been physically stronger than Bender, he was an adult and even if the actor was in his early 20s Bender was a teenager.
2. I am kind of wondering WHY the guy hated bender so much. He secretly looked at Bender's file and read that Bender suffered from mental illness. So where was the sympathy or compassion? If a person is mentally ill it is not their fault it is an ILLNESS. Plus even if he was not there to witness everything it is not that hard to put 2 and 2 together and realize Bender came from a VERY abusive home, also not his fault. Did he make ANY effort to intervene and try to get that kid help in escaping the abusive situation the way a social worker might? So KNOWING that Bender had a horribly abusive childhood/adolescence AND suffered from mental illness how could he really completely blame Bender for how he turned out? That principal guy probably had a very nice or at least "normal" childhood so where does he get off passing judgement on Bender.
3. You know what would have been tearjerking? If in one of the successive weeks since Bender had several more Saturdays of detention he had gotten to know Bender better and decided to help him in some way and maybe even ended up becoming his friend.
1. Duh
2. Because Bender was a jerk off and the guy was a very particular type of old school *beep* If you know the type, then you know the answers to the rest of paragraph 2. If you don't, too bad, I'm not explaining it. Also, as someone who suffers from mental illness, stop trying to use it as a *beep* excuse. It's ignorant and offensive. Another also, it's not that guy's job to try and intervene in Bender's home life like a social worker. This entire paragraph of yours reeks of raw ignorance. You should address that.
3. No, that would have been *beep* stupid.
I'm starting to suspect that this movie might be too deep for you.
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WORDS MEAN THINGS!
You are at least partially wrong about something. If a child (and legally a "child" is anyone under 18 and even if 18 or over this law might apply since abuse is ALWAYS a crime) is under the "care" of adults even if only for part of the day, say Daycare workers or teachers AND said teacher or coach or something has reason to suspect child abuse he or she is legally and morally obligated to report that abuse to the appropriate authorities or maybe I should say report their suspicion. Of course in reality the law is almost impossible to enforce since unless the abuse is blatantly obvious and nobody can read minds it would have to be assumed that the person was unaware or had no idea.
I am also wondering why he was a jerk to all the others treating them ALL like trash. One of them was admittedly nuts but was CHOOSING detention and had not violated any school rules. One of them was a bitch I guess that shallow spoiled cheerleader.
But one of them was a star athlete that the school (and by extension him) should have been proud of (even if what he did was terrible) and one of them was a brilliant student with an almost perfect academic record with the unfair F in art the only exception. He was likely the all around best student in the school or at least close to it.
I wonder what his interactions with bender were like in the ensuing weeks.
Hell you could have made a series out of this and had each sequel be a successive week with Bender and a different group of other "detainees".
You are at least partially wrong about something. If a child (and legally a "child" is anyone under 18 and even if 18 or over this law might apply since abuse is ALWAYS a crime) is under the "care" of adults even if only for part of the day, say Daycare workers or teachers AND said teacher or coach or something has reason to suspect child abuse he or she is legally and morally obligated to report that abuse to the appropriate authorities or maybe I should say report their suspicion. Of course in reality the law is almost impossible to enforce since unless the abuse is blatantly obvious and nobody can read minds it would have to be assumed that the person was unaware or had no idea.
I am also wondering why he was a jerk to all the others treating them ALL like trash. One of them was admittedly nuts but was CHOOSING detention and had not violated any school rules. One of them was a bitch I guess that shallow spoiled cheerleader.
"He secretly looked at Bender's file and read that Bender suffered from mental illness."
That was Mr. Tierney's file, not Bender's.
He looked 'freaked out'. Vernon finally lost his cool and sunk to his level. It bewildered him and he looked more confused then scared to me. I would've had the same reaction though.
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I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.
Well, I think he felt it wasn't a good idea to fight Vernon. I have a feeling since Vernon was older, he would've knocked his penis in the dirt.
sharei do not think he is afraid i personally believe he is a better fighter than he lets on. when andrew took him down he got right up like it was nothing. but what i think it was not fear it was SHOCK like he was shocked that someone like Dick Vernon would be so abusive
shareYeah, that's what I got out of it. Like he couldn't believe what he was seeing.
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I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.
I saw this move back in 85 and that scene was brutal. I hated Vernon already and that scene intensified my hate
even more for his character. Basically he was on a power trip and was using it to insult and instill fear in Bender..
Bender realized that Vernon was playing like John was his prisoner and he was the sadistic warden. And then of course Benders own father treated him just like Vernon so he could have indeed felt fear at knowing he was somewhat helpless. Vernon could do anything and when push came to shove say anything to the school board he wanted and they would have sided with him.
Now whether or not Vernon was more physically imposing is another matter. I don't think John was necessarily afraid of getting his ass kicked, I think it was more a psychological beating he feared which is what Vernon did. John wasn't a coward , sure maybe he had some false bravado around the other kids but he was a rebel and his family life sucked. If anyone acted like a coward, it was Vernon., that whole take the first shot line and the cruel insults while hiding behind his position as principal. He looked at confidential files of students and their parents and tried to justify it to the janitor. He was a cowardly bully , knowing he could get away with just about anything because of his title. In this day and age , he would be unemployed and I guarantee have gotten his ass kicked by either a parent or a group of pissed off students.
So, a thought crossed your mind? Must have been a long and lonely journeyshare
I am by no means justifying Vernon's behavior in this scene, he clearly went to far. But Bender brought a lot of this on himself by being a mouthy bully and a jerk to people. Yes his home life may have been bad, but lots of people have bad home lives and don't act like asswipes to people. There are better ways to deal with your problems than those Bender chose too. And apparently he wasn't very good at it since he got emasculated twice in this movie.
Yeah I do think Bender was genuinely afraid, and for Vernon's part, he should have either softened or stopped his tirade as soon as he saw that Bender was scared and subdued. But I do wonder if he would have what happens? As soon as Vernon softened on him would Bender just go back to being the same jerk? or someone getting tough like this with him is that all he understands?
Again not justifying Vernon's behavior, but before judging him to harshly you probably have to figure he has had plenty of run ins with Bender in the past and may feel that getting tough with him is all he really understands. But all in all Vernon probably had no business being an authority figure in a school environment.
I am by no means justifying Vernon's behavior in this scene, he clearly went to far. But Bender brought a lot of this on himself by being a mouthy bully and a jerk to people. Yes his home life may have been bad, but lots of people have bad home lives and don't act like asswipes to people. There are better ways to deal with your problems than those Bender chose too. And apparently he wasn't very good at it since he got emasculated twice in this movie.
Again not justifying Vernon's behavior, but before judging him to harshly you probably have to figure he has had plenty of run ins with Bender in the past and may feel that getting tough with him is all he really understands. But all in all Vernon probably had no business being an authority figure in a school environment.
I think Bender was taken aback that Vernon actually got so demanding for it to get physical. So fear, yeah
shareTHE JOCK COULD'VE TAKEN HIM IF HE WANTED TO, ALL HE HAD WAS HIS SWITCHBLADE. TAKE THAT AWAY & HE'S GOT NOTHING...
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http://www.youtube.com/user/loveunderlaw
I think Bender is actually frightened of violence despite the bad boy, tough guy image he portrays. He knows how to talk back, but do we ever see him fight? The one time we see him fight, Andy wrestles him to the ground. Sure Andy is a wrestler...but he has to take out his knife to make the point that he can take Andy down and chooses not to.
In my opinion, Bender is terrified of physical violence. Think about it, he's a grown adult man who still gets the sht beaten out of him by his father. Why doesn't he fight back?
I've often seen people who can't fight back (usually physical abuse victims) turn into verbally abusive people as time goes on. His words are the only thing he has to fight back with because he doesn't dare fight back physically.
He sees Vernon's threat as similar to that of his father's. Kind of shame because Vernon must know that his father is physically abusive toward him, yet he uses this against him and taunts him with it.
But that's my opinion.
Bender is not afraid of Vernon's fists or of his words; he is (justifiably) afraid of the CONSEQUENCES of doing what Vernon wants him to do.
Vernon is not concerned with kicking Bender's behind; it's not relevant which would do the other more harm. But for the power-hungry Vernon, Bender taking the first swing at him and bruising his chin would be like the best Christmas present Vernon could ever receive.
What Vernon is trying to do is TEMPT Bender into starting the fight, knowing that if he has sustained an injury ("I'll give you the first punch!") any consequences will fall upon Bender. And they will be far-reaching, into the more distant future. If Vernon wants to control, abuse, and own Bender forever, this can be accomplished by enticing Bender to initiate a physical assault. Bender will have crossed the line from being a mere "juvenile delinquent" into being a violent offender. As Darth Vader might say, "You have conquered your fear; NOW, release your ANGER!"
It is probably not Vernon's plan to fight back. He wants to sustain an injury at Bender's hands. We can give Bender some credit for being smart enough to understand that if he does what Vernon wants him to do, his life will go sharply downhill, rather fast. We can give Vernon some credit for being SERIOUS enough about damaging Bender's life to entice him in this way.
Vernon wishes to take his domination of Bender, truly, to the next level. Two months of detention in the library is nothing compared to what Bender will suffer (at the hands of greater and more powerful authorities) if he accepts Vernon's invitation.
Bender is not afraid of Vernon's fists or of his words; he is (justifiably) afraid of the CONSEQUENCES of doing what Vernon wants him to do.
Vernon is not concerned with kicking Bender's behind; it's not relevant which would do the other more harm. But for the power-hungry Vernon, Bender taking the first swing at him and bruising his chin would be like the best Christmas present Vernon could ever receive.
What Vernon is trying to do is TEMPT Bender into starting the fight, knowing that if he has sustained an injury ("I'll give you the first punch!") any consequences will fall upon Bender. And they will be far-reaching, into the more distant future. If Vernon wants to control, abuse, and own Bender forever, this can be accomplished by enticing Bender to initiate a physical assault. Bender will have crossed the line from being a mere "juvenile delinquent" into being a violent offender. As Darth Vader might say, "You have conquered your fear; NOW, release your ANGER!"
It is probably not Vernon's plan to fight back. He wants to sustain an injury at Bender's hands. We can give Bender some credit for being smart enough to understand that if he does what Vernon wants him to do, his life will go sharply downhill, rather fast. We can give Vernon some credit for being SERIOUS enough about damaging Bender's life to entice him in this way.
Vernon wishes to take his domination of Bender, truly, to the next level. Two months of detention in the library is nothing compared to what Bender will suffer (at the hands of greater and more powerful authorities) if he accepts Vernon's invitation.
A guy like Bender would have irritated me, but ultimately I probably would have found him less intimidating than a guy like Andy.
Although what Andy did to the Larry Lester kid was horrible, (probably deserved expulsion to be honest, really think that's something that could scar someone for life,) he was not a chronic bully. He said his Dad was disappointed he never cut loose on anyone, so his action, though horrible and inexcusable seems to have just been a one time thing. Whereas Bender probably mouthed off to people all the time.
Although what Andy did to the Larry Lester kid was horrible, (probably deserved expulsion to be honest, really think that's something that could scar someone for life,) he was not a chronic bully. He said his Dad was disappointed he never cut loose on anyone, so his action, though horrible and inexcusable seems to have just been a one time thing. Whereas Bender probably mouthed off to people all the time.
Sure it is, verbal bullying can scar a person for a long time. In fact I would say most bullying is verbal, having been a recipient of it myself. It can lead to suicide in some cases.
As for authority figures failing Bender, I think you are deducing quite a bit from a two hour movie. You can only really go by how he acted in the movie. He picked on Brian, who was basically humble, how did he need to be taken down a peg? Granted he didn't do anything really bad to him but he was very condescending to him and basically contemptuous of him, mostly because he was jealous of Brian for having a normal home life. I can sympathize with Bender for having a bad home life, but not for tearing down others because they did not and acting like it was a bad thing.
He also demeaned Claire sexually, and name called Andrew as well. He called him an idiot without even really knowing him. He toned that down once Andrew made him eat the floor and he realized he couldn't mouth off to him without consequences.
I'm not saying there were not things to sympathize with about Bender, but don't act like he was totally innocent. I know plenty of people that had bad home lives hat didn't act like Bender. I would venture to say Vernon's actions in the closet may have helped Bender in the long run, may have taken him down a peg and made him realize that demeaning people verbally was not the answer to his problems.
Sure it is, verbal bullying can scar a person for a long time. In fact I would say most bullying is verbal, having been a recipient of it myself. It can lead to suicide in some cases.
As for authority figures failing Bender, I think you are deducing quite a bit from a two hour movie. You can only really go by how he acted in the movie. He picked on Brian, who was basically humble, how did he need to be taken down a peg? Granted he didn't do anything really bad to him but he was very condescending to him and basically contemptuous of him, mostly because he was jealous of Brian for having a normal home life. I can sympathize with Bender for having a bad home life, but not for tearing down others because they did not and acting like it was a bad thing.
He also demeaned Claire sexually, and name called Andrew as well. He called him an idiot without even really knowing him. He toned that down once Andrew made him eat the floor and he realized he couldn't mouth off to him without consequences.
I'm not saying there were not things to sympathize with about Bender, but don't act like he was totally innocent. I know plenty of people that had bad home lives hat didn't act like Bender. I would venture to say Vernon's actions in the closet may have helped Bender in the long run, may have taken him down a peg and made him realize that demeaning people verbally was not the answer to his problems.