Tony Montana Was a Decent Man: Debate

He was a murderer.

Okay, he refused to kill one wife and two kids. He also spared the life of that one guy after murdering two other people. He killed a LOT of people. Even before the film begins, he's been murdering people ("I never killed anybody that didn't have it coming to them." - which is, I assume, by Tony's "standard")

He was a scumbag/creep.

Look at the way he treats women. His mom and his sister are the only two he treats, eh, let's go with better. But to the rest of the female populace he behaves like one of those wolves from the old-timey cartoons. His sister and mother are the only two women I'd argue he loves/likes, but he doesn't respect them or treat them with dignity. His mom he doesn't seem to care about once she yells at him and his sister he treats like a pet. Any time she tries to have a life she wants he loses his temper and beats people up or kills them. I don't buy for a minute that he really felt anything for Elvira, he just wanted her to peacock her around, "I got the boss' girl!"

He's a jerk to his friends, family, and associates.

He treats everybody wretchedly. Especially Manny, but every associate of his he backstabs or betrays or yells at. The bottom line is that, unless you're doing everything Tony wants, he spits venom your way. And even then, sometimes, he just randomly turned on people. He relentlessly hits on his friend/boss' wife.

He keeps claiming to be truthful, but he just lies like a maniac - a lot.

His mom is the clearest indicator of his personality. He walks through the door and she knows he's scum. She calls him out on it and references the past. This isn't new for Tony.

Tony hit the shores of America with an inferiority complex and a chip on his shoulder. He felt he was owed the world and walked around, all two bits of him, like he was some kind of king. The reality is that the guy was a low-life bum.

I call BS on his having any real love (non-possessive/ conditional) to his sister and mother, I call BS on his disliking capitalism (Elvira calls him out on that one) - and incidentally, disliking capitalism isn't moral, it's political - and I call BS on his loving Elvira - he saw her as a possession and his advice about drug use/ jobs/ hobbies was just part of an argument - he was trying to bug her.

The character did have some kind of wonky ethics at play, but there's not a lot of redeeming factors here.

Scarface is a cautionary tale about greed and arrogance summed up in its protagonist, Tony Montana.

Great Argument,...but in the "Grand Scheme" of things he was a (VERY) Bad Guy with ethics and morals that he truly believed in.

That and he thought just about any and everyone was "Out for Theirs", except his mother, his sister, and I believe Kids in general.

And because of the circles he ran he was mostly correct.

He proved his evil("evil" isn't the word I really want to use but can't think of another) when he shot and killed his best friend who was with his sister.

Buuuuttt, I also don't accept that one scene throughout the whole movie.

NOWAY do I believe that any person/friend would've shot/killed Manny. Pistol whip him, maybe even pull a gun on him (hard to believe that too) but I don't buy he'd shot and killed his best friend. Manny was there when they were dead broke, washing dishes, saved his life, the one person's opinion he'd listen to,...

I saw the film last night and mostly agree. He was obviously a "bad guy" but as they go had an understandable code, which was shown to be unbreakable as he basically sacrificed himself to save the kids, and only killed people who had it coming. Manny was maybe an exception, but he had been clearly warned to stay away from the sister, and Tony felt guilty when he realised they were married rather than one of Manny's usual short sexual flings.

I think this Tony is more moral and likeable than the one in the original film (though I saw that years ago).

- He refused to kill the whistleblower's wife and two kids. He pretty much sealed his own death by not going through with the assassination plot. THAT takes a sense of ethics.

Kids are just people. There is a sentimental attachment to them. Killing their father was not ethical, and leaving them alive means nothing in the face of all the other murders. He feels it's his choice, his whim whether someone lives or dies. He ends up killing his best friend in a fit of rage, and not long later is saying he loved him. He's a total mess and the sentimental kid crap is a red herring, ethically.

- He felt a sense of love and loyalty to his sister and mother.

Yes, that scene with his mother was very interesting. She was the one person he didn't beat down. I believe this is due to cultural traditions of Latin American people wherein the mother is revered much more than in some other cultures. But his sister - he didn't respect her freedom to marry or go out with the man he trusted most in the world. Because his trust wasn't trust between equals. It was really just "Can I control this person." He respected no one. Not even himself. That's why he had to put everyone else down to put himself up. A losing game, as this film shows.

- He loved Elvira and wanted to have kids with her and recommended to her she reduce the drug use and also do some social work instead of sleeping all day.

That social work crap was pure sarcasm. Yup, he wanted her to reduce drug use so that she could serve his purpose - to have his children. He SAID he loved her afetr she left him, but again, this love is like his trust - it is a word to use to gain control over people. He wanted her back, but he didn't love her in the sense of respecting and valuing her, caring about her feelings and needs, listening to her very valid points when she said he'd be a crap dad, right before she left him.

Apparently he NEVER reflected upon his own failings and anger issues until after he killed his best friend. What a macho idiot!!! Very sad. And, no, not decent. A mosquito may fly higher than a cockroach, but it's still an insect. It doesn't have a human heart or mind, and neither did Scarface. Apparently he had that beat out of him well before the movie begins.

A freak is what he is. Bad genes should be wiped out earlier.

Tony was fundamentally a “bad guy” who possessed some redeeming qualities. His mother had him pegged — he was ruthless killer.