Two films from the same era, both with quite different stories, but very similar in style. I'm just wondering, which do you prefer, Altered States or Videodrome?
. . . closing walls and ticking clocks . . .
Alterd states, the film is 'kin top doller. i watched it a very young age on the off chance that it would have nude women in it (it paid off there is). it had a profound effect on my fragile mind. solid gold m'man. videodrome is hype as well dont get me wrong, but that cronemberg fella gets on me nerves, its like he had one good idea (sexuality/penitration/infection/technoligy) about twenty odd years ago, and has proceeded to batter us all round the head with it for decades.
shareWhile Altered States rocks...I think you're missing the point: If you'd look a little more past the imagery in Cronenberg's films, there's a lot more to it. What goes on in his films is a lot more complex on several different levels besides sexuality and penetration:society, independence, conformity, and a lot of this is stream of consciousness type stuff.
If you're too annoyed with his images or find them unsettling, don't watch them. The fact that he can still make them (and has another one coming out soon that is all his own) is commendable by itself. Give credit where credit is due.
Speed
C'mon Cronenberg has been going over the same territory for years, i do get his point, i do think it is interesting i just think it is a singular point and to his credit he has explained it well, so well in fact i got it in video drome and didn't need it reiterated. I love naked lunch etc and can do the pepsi challenge with all the clammy, harts of darkness, room 101 imagery/subtle statements he can put out. I find him similar to that Lynch fella i dig what hes doing and what hes saying but there is a point in both there careers where they stopped being interesting and quite clearly started to rely on the imagery/feelings that they were able very successfully put to celluloid as a crutch. I want to see them expand and grow. I would say the same thing about Scorsese if he had just made films about Italian Americans all his career. I know Lynch made the Straight Story and recently Cronenberg has made A History of Violence both of witch are not relying on there trade mark imagery. I worry that people like these films because they make them feel clever, its the film fans equivalent of being a goth. The assumption is that if someone docent like these type of films is that they are to thick to get them or to thin skinned to stomach them, just another form of convoluted intellectual bigotry. Its a nonsense to say something like "dont watch them". To take the same idea i could say something equally patronizing like if you find my opinion to challenging simply dont read my opinion. Its all about communication of ideas rather than this dangourse "them and us" intellectual mutual masturbation. Death of the author.
Hit me back, i like this conversation.
Videodrome all the way. Though not one of my favorite films, Cronenberg combines real-life special effects (as opposed to CGI) and tells beautiful stories. This film was an excuse to try out some special effects, but the story, though good on concept, is painfully executed.
shareA draw, for nostalgia.
shareMy choice is Altered States. The theme alone struck a chord with me,...Cronenburg has and continues to make movies I enjoy,..(Scanners et. al.) but I saw Altered States when it first came out and under the influence of mushrooms myself,...I was blown away by the story, the music, visuals but most of all the script and the Acting. It was William Hurt's first screen appearance, and with a Shakespearean background grasped the essence of the character and I've been a fan ever since. If there was a weak performance I'd have to say it was by Blair Brown,...she didn't seem right to me,...overall though I consider it to be one in my top twenty faves. And mostly the images/scenes/dialog have stayed with me over these past 25 years,...as Videodrome has not. If you've ever taken any sort of psychedelic drug,...then Altered States might have been your choice,...it used to be a ritual of mine before a movie event or great concert,...to inbibe in these recreational drugs.
I beleive if one is to truly understand anything about altered states of consciousness,...one has to 'alter their state of Mind! Ha! Oh;... but what a long strange trip it's been!
Love & Peace T'
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agreed altered states is a better film. i had watched as a child and it scared me, but last night i watched a three in the morning and i was not sure if i was dreaming, it still scared the *beep* out of me. even more since lsd and mushrooms existed in my life. but videodrome is brilliant as well and scary in a different way.
Altered states is a much more involved story. The story deals with Willam Hurt not wanting to love Blair Brown then ends up in the end he does. Videodrome was James Woods using that biotch and then killing an old lady and growing a gun hand. Both great works but i think Altered States deserves to be in the Criterion Collection more than Videodrome. Naked Lunch kicks both their asses though and definatelly deserves to be Criterion.
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i completely agree with you on this one.
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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.
Videodrome is much better in all aspects.
Its a totally awesome movie!
About 20% of dollar bills have traces of cocaine. The other 80% is in Dennis Hopper.share
I liked both, but Altered States was my favorite of the two. Videodrome was plenty interesting, but it really kind of left the viewer hanging. In the movie, there was too much talking about videodrome and not enough illustration of it.
I'd disagree the two movies were similar though. They were actually both fairly unique as movies go. I guess there was a vaguely common theme in the search for the unknown, but that unknown was something very different in each.
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Altered States. I like the concept more. The effects in Altered States hold up better as well.
Thanks for the ride lady!
VIDEODROME by a mile!!
A masterpiece in general and IMO Cronenberg's masterpiece.
However, i don't think you can really compare these 2 films - in many ways they are two totally different concepts - even though both deal with hallucinations and both the main character's reality warping into something else - to the point of physical.
I only saw Altered States for the first time last night and enjoyed it very much. And i have to admit, i kept thinking this has a Videodrome "vibe" to it to a degree - but again, both movies are entirely different in their APPROACH and in story.
In a slight way - i felt Cronenberg's The Fly was more similar to Altered States than Videodrome. With The Fly you have a mad scientest who is altered by his experiments (accidently though in The Fly), same with William Hurt's character, a mad scientest - but when Jeff Goldblum turns into the Fly - it's almost Altered States-ish with the monkey version of William Hurt?
Then again, The Fly was a remake - but also a "rethink".
Actually, there was a scene in ALTERED STATES that seemed straight out of Cronenberg's SHIVERS. When William Hurt wakes up and his body - in particular his arm and chest are warping! The chest part is VERY similar to a scene in Shivers where a character's chest is warping. So who knows, maybe Altered States was influenced by Cronenberg in a small way?
Altered States was 2 years prior to Videodrome and it wouldn't surprise me if Cronenberg saw Altered States and it definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cronenberg enjoyed it. (infact, Altered States may have been the movie which Cronenberg took great interest in William Hurt - they were going to make Total Recall in the mid-80s - then finally got to work together in A History of Violence) But by no means do i think Altered States influenced Cronenberg with Videodrome.
Videodrome, by quite a few miles.
shareCronenberg films are complex and highly intellectual. The special effects in his movies are spot-on.
Paddy Chayefsky took his name off the movie. The visuals are ok in AS, but nothing near Cronenberg. I think I'll just read the book.
I mean, it's like comparing apples and oranges. There not really similar. I thought AS was more akin to 2001.
definitely Altered States simply because it's more unique and I've never seen a similar movie to it.
I like Videodrome and most other Cronenberg films but none of them comes close to this experience here.
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SEUL CONTRE TOUS
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I'll go with Videodrome, the plot about the violence and reality in television was just more interesting to me than the hallucinatory drugs and isolation chambers in Altered States.
shareVideodrome!
shareDamn right, Videodrome.
As good as Altered States is, it never quite transcends the gimmick of its own premise -- let's take a super-smart, super-driven character (and cast William Hurt who can play these characteristics in his sleep), stick him in an isolation tank, and have the experience fundamentally alter his life and perception. And throw in a few hallucinogens for good measure.
Now, the film's one truly sci-fi conceit -- yes, that one -- is probably the least intriguing aspect of it. It doesn't top the wonderful imagery of the hallucinations, and (as good as he is generally) the single-mindedness of William Hurt, in the face of such potential harm, begins to irritate. Instead of enhancing the story, this development arguably sabotages it, propelling it into the realm of the monster movie.
But hell, despite this, I love it, and watching it again last night on blu-ray was a wonderful experience.
For me, Videodrome is leagues ahead in almost every regard.
Let's take one aspect almost at random. James Woods and William Hurt are very similar actors in the respects mentioned above, and their characters are similarly driven to push the boundaries of their respective fields. But while Hurt continues to -- rather gratingly and implausibly -- push further into the abyss despite the pleas of those who care about him, Woods's Max Renn has no choice; the possible mutations/hallucinations he experiences as a result of the Videodrome signal have done their damage, and circumstances make it impossible for him to escape. (It'd be interesting to see the two switch roles. Or face off in a movie with a smart script.)
Or the use of surreal imagery. While Altered States contains some lovely and terrifying psychedelic Freudian hodge podge while Jessup is in the tank or whacked out on mushroom soup, Videodrome is far more disturbing in the way it integrates the hallucinations into the story proper. Max Renn is our window into the world of Videodrome, and as his perception shifts, so does ours. Eventually, we aren't given even a toe-hold on "reality". The cancer gun that has grown out of Max's hand is real to him, and thus real to us. But is it hallucination or mutation?
Anyway, it's just one guy's opinion, but I prefer the nightmarish unanswerable quality of Videodrome's "philosophy" over the rather pat pseudo-science of Altered States. The former haunts, while the latter amuses.
Great that you wrote that! I began to read this thread and wanted to "explain" my view on Videodrome, but why should I, you did it so well...?
Adding some of my thoughts, though, I see Videodrome as both a possible critic on TV and video watching that without a doubt has changed our way of thinking AND actually, feeling, possibly more than any other invention of the 20th century, par computers. BUT also the talk about the "New Flesh" is Our Future. Where will we go? Ask the young who grow up with computers and internet from the cradle. Why bother about the physical reality when the videoworld/internet/computer world offer anything between information, interaction, communication and entertainment? When we are dead, what will future generations do in and about the physical world? Some kids just dont go out anymore! We are mutating already. Thats what I think Cronenberg wanted to explore. And the very real aspects of these thoughts we can see signs of already, although the film was made in 1983 and is a science fiction idea.
Maybe we should discuss this on the Videodrome messageboard too..?