As far as MTM being a better actress than MS, I realze that the field of comparison is a hugely skewed one because while I have probably seen Streep act in at least 20 movies, I only have OP and Mary's 70s show (never watched TDVDS much), but - and I think IY would agree with me here - within the range of playing Mary Richards, there was virtually nothing that MTM did not get a chance to do, and do exceedingly well. She made a character come to life (of course she had 7 years to do this), but she was funny and charming and vivid and (with the exception of the show's last season, which I have my own reasons for not liking), she always seemed fresh and in the moment and she pretty much resembled a real person. She also responds to the other characters so well, and I don't really think that Streep does this so much. And then she made OP, and for me that was enough to show that MTM was equipped with full circle versatility. Plus depth. Those two performances are all I personally need. Meryl Streep, on the other hand, is wildly versatile and her technique is flamboyant and engaging, but she has practically zero depth. And despite whatever gifts and skills she has, I cannot imagine Meryl Streep being able to portray a weekly sitcom character anywhere near as successfully as Mary did. She would have to be lovable to do that, and I don't think that she just has this to share with others. (God, all this makes me sound like I hate Streep and I don't!)
Then, of course, there is the fact that MTM once said "I cannot play a character. I can only play me." So, in a way that's kind of a big deal. Meryl's characters almost invariably have a coldness to them (even the likeable ones), and just maybe because she doesn't bring much of herself to the role. And, then, ironically, the super chilly Beth Jarrett is actually more likeable than almost any of Streep's characters (to me, anyway), and I think it's because there is more of a real person (however aloof) inside Beth Jarrett than in any single of Streep's characters. I never thought about it this way before. And then because there is something authentic going on with MTM's Beth Jarrett, the fact that this is a woman who is dealing with (or not dealing with, as it were) her demons in a way that I personally believe or respond to just makes Beth a much more terrifying person than any ofMeryl Streep's people. Beth Jarrett seems to have so many more dimensions.
Like more and more when I think about "Sophie's Choice", which is Streep's most celebrated role (and kind of annoyingly above reproach), I think the movie could really be transformed into a painting of Streep's beautiful face, get somebody to play the flute for background noise, change the title to "The Shining Eyes of the Polish Madonna", stare at it for 5 minutes and you'd basically get the same experience as from the two and a half hour long movie.
There is something essentially so "perfect" about Streep that about the only thing for you to do is admire her. But that gets boring after a while.
I guess what it comes down to is one's own personal preferences. You know how like everybody seems to love "The Shining" (and I do enjoy it myself), but almost always seems like there's the one same thing that all the fans can't stand about the movie, and that is Shelley Duvall's performance and whenever I hear that I just want to scream because I think that she actually gives a really good performance in the movie and I just want to say that really they just don't like the actress or the character or they think she's weird looking or whatever, but then that could be a little arrogant of me, just I usually just totally back off and if I do say anything at all in defense of her performance it is invariably the iconic image of total horror on her face when she first gets a glimpse of that axe coming through the bathroom door. And you know what's so fun, Rascal, is that every time the Shelley detractors have the same basic response and agree that "yeah, well, she was really, really good in that scene." Success for Shelley! Also (and I'm sorry I am just in one of my rambling moods, I think I've been cooped up as long as Jack and Wendy!), but the look of total, pure fear on Shelley's face... Meryl could NEVER have achieved something like that!!!
So, Rascal, just what is your estimation of MTM's performance in OP? I've never really heard you say. I'd love to hear your opinions on it.
"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida
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rascal67
8 years ago
I like MTM's performance in OP. I only really knew her as a comedienne before seeing it, and I saw SIX WEEKS-82' theatrically, before I watched OP thoroughly in the mid 90's. I have to be honest and say that I only really saw Moore as a tv personality and not a major movie star, or that she had what it took to embellish the credentials of being a major movie star. That could be very narrow-sighted though, and I have changed my tune and opinions on acting performances over the last 2 decades. The thing is with Moore, she didn't do much cinema film, only tv, so I never really had much of an opportunity to really see her chops as a major film star and what she was capable of. I would have to sit thorough the MTM show from season one and watch the whole thing to get a more detailed and informative personal opinion on her talents.
As for her portrayal of Beth in OP, I thought she did a excellent job of portraying this cold and aloof woman, who was internally struggling to find her feelings and attempting to express them, yet failing abysmally. Her character has brought up much discussion with me on these OP threads—just as Meryl Streep has on the KvK threads—and that is due to Moore's credit in bringing Beth Jarret to life in all her foibles, faults and flaws. Watching her in OP, I sometimes think that this was the "real" MTM. I also find it interesting, that I find it difficult to attribute positive qualities towards Beth.
This was a difficult role to play, in order for the viewer to see how incapable she was of being genuine and honestly open and giving of herself, and at the same time make her sympathetic. Moore does make her pitiful, rather than me just wanting to feel whole contempt for her. She was in a sense, her own worst enemy. These are the best roles and while I haven't read the book yet, I would have loved to have known a little more about Beth and observing her character before Buck's death. That would have given her behavior even more credibility, in regards to Conrad and how she felt and acted towards him. That said, I feel that Moore gave a nuanced portrayal and she made her character real enough so the perceptive and discerning audience can understand her. The quality of these performances in the film, also needs to be attributed to Robert Redford's direction of them.
Don't eat the whole ones!...Those are for the guests. 🍪
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