Was Lou Grant gay?
I know he was divorced, but I always got the impression there was an underlying, unspoken theme that Lou was gay.
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MovieChat Forums > Lou Grant (1977) Discussion > Was Lou Grant gay?
No. All of the evidence presented about Lou's sexuality both on the MTM Show and on "Lou Grant" would lead you to conclude that Lou is straight. On the MTM Show, he was married and then divorced, which let the writers introduce a number of plot lines about Lou pursuing women, including Mary, and including at least one he knew before he was married.
"Lou Grant" was about the characters' work lives, and giving Lou a home life would have distracted from the central place of the newspaper on the series. However, Lou pursued a fair number of women on the series and had at least one medium-term relationship (with a cop he rear-ended while staring at a girl on the sidewalk, lol). He even revisited his high school sweetheart in the episode "Hometown," but the issue that drove them apart was not sexuality but religion -- the girl was Catholic and Lou was Protestant.
When it came to homosexuals, Lou was not repulsed by them, but he didn't find their issues particularly appealing either. This theme came up in the episodes "Nazi" and "Cop," the latter an extraordinary treatment of homosexuality, by the standards of the 1970s.
When it came to homosexuals, Lou was not repulsed by them, but he didn't find their issues particularly appealing either.
I have to say, after having seen "Cop" for the first time, that I think he was very sensitive to everything the gay character was going through, maybe more than I'd expected. I think he was particularly open-minded and sympathetic for someone who couldn't relate to dealing with homophobia.
"Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide share
Although I don't think Grant was a homophobe by any stretch, in the episode "Cop" when they are discussing listing the name of the victims who died in the gay bar fire, he said that they (meaning the patrons) made the decision to be gay. That's kind of ill-informed. I think he accepted people for what they were, but also his character didn't fully understand gay people either.
That's just my opinion.
I do recall that line, but I thought he just said "they made a decision," so it was more ambiguous. Maybe I'm giving his character too much credit, but I assumed that he meant that they made a choice to go to that particular bar where they would be "out" and they had to know that if something were to happen, people might associate them with that establishment. I've been such a fan of the character for so many years (first on The Mary Tyler Moore show and more recently since I'm watching this show on hulu) that I guess I'd just continue to be in denial if he turned out to be a little homophobic. Homosexuality had been removed from the DSM at that point (taken out in 1973), but I know that the notion that people make some conscious choice is still prevalent enough today, so I guess he very well could've meant it just as you said.
"Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide
Systole, your explaination makes total sense, and I see you're way of thinking... You might be right! I should watch that episode again.
shareHe said "they made their choice" and from the context of the conversation he meant "their choice" to be hanging out in a gay bar while still closeted. (Context: He, Charlie, and Mrs. Pynchon were debating whether to publish the names of five patrons of a gay bar who died in a fire). Also, the rest of the episode shows Grant to very tolerant of gay people. For instance, he encourages the gay cop to come out of the closet.
shareIn general, in the '70's, people did not understand they being gay was not a lifestyle choice. It's not a reflection of the Lou Grant's character -- it's a reflection of the thoughts about why a person would be gay. One of the leading explanations as to why someone would be gay (and it was always focused on male homosexuals) was that the gay man had such a domineering mother that he became repulsed by women. Seriously!!
shareAmanda: Lou didn't say they made a choice to be gay. He said they made a choice to be in the gay bar. Charlie retorted that he could think of a dozen reasons why someone would be in the bar that had nothing to do with sexuality. Lou argued that printing the names of the victims took precedence over the paper covering up the names of the victims.
shareYes, Lou was tolerant of gay people during that episode. I think it was unrealistic for a guy that age in that era to be that tolerant.
shareThere was another episode in Season One, "Hoax," in which Lou, Rossi, and an old friend of Lou's went to Jamaica checking on a supposedly hot story, and they're in a bar all wearing white suits. They spot another reporter from the New York Times who is there, and Lou is afraid that he's on the same story, so he goes over and talks to him to find out. He doesn't want to reveal that he's there in Jamaica on a story, so he claims he's on vacation. "With two men?" That's when Lou said, "Yeah, we're gay." The other guy didn't believe him.
shareI always got that impression that Lou Grant was gay, yes.
shareI think in the 70s and early 80s saying homosexuality was a choice was considered enlightened, because it indicated the speaker was tolerant of difference. The usual attitude expressed back then was by way of violence.
I never got the idea the character of Lou Grant was anything but hetero. He was old school about women and their place in society, but his attitudes were changing because, first, of Mary Richards, and then of Billie. He learned to respect women as people, so it makes sense he would extend that to gay people too.
I have not watched the whole run of Lou's own show, but I don't see any way people could construe that Lou was gay from The Mary Tyler Moore Show. He dated several women, including Mary's "aunt." I think he even had a fling with Sue Ann. Now, Murray... he's the one that would be gay if the show were airing today.
shareThey had originally planned for Murray to be played by Charles Nelson Riley so you may be right about that.
shareWhat a load of crap!!!!! First off, Murray was married and had three kids of his own and even wanted to have a fourth (which is why he and his wife adopted a son). Second of all, it was the worst kept secret in the newsroom that Murray was secretly in love with Mary and even told her so in one episode. And finally, he very nearly had an affair with a divorced woman. That was the episode where he bought a piano this lady was selling and used the piano as a ruse when he went to see her at her apartment. So honestly, why would you think that Murray was gay?
shareHonestly, I don't know how you can draw such a conclusion. Considering the fact that Lou himself had affairs on MTM with Sue Ann Nivens and Aunt Flo, that right there should put that issue to rest. I have seen this entire series over and over again and I never once gotten the impression that the "unspoken" theme of the series was that he was gay. Why is it that when people aren't married, other people automatically think that it's because they're gay?
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That is ludicrous. Were you attracted to the big hairy bear Lou Grant?
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