Estevez


Watching this makes it more apparent that Emilio Estevez is the greatest Billy The Kid ever, I like Kristofferson but he is far too old in the role, Estevez's laugh etc make it a much more enjoyable portrayal

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I thought Estevez and his laugh were phony. Kristofferson was too old, but according to the Kid's own words he would have been 26 when he died (Garrett's book said he was 21 though, but that's not concrete).

The Billy in the film is supposed to be something of a burnout, so the withered appearance of Kristofferson isn't too far off. If Dylan had any acting ability, I think he would have been a good Billy. He had the small physique and if he could've captured the charismatic @$$hole persona he had in Dont Look Back then he would've been perfect.

In my mind, there's never been a truly great portrayal of Billy the Kid (Coburn's Garrett, on the other hand, was perfect).

After seeing Casey Affleck in The Assassination of Jesse James, I think he'd be a pretty good Billy. He looks a helluvalot like him (so does Jon Heder but I don't think he has the acting chops).

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This Peckinpah fan agrees with you wholeheartedly. Estevez was actually perfect for the role. He played it with just the right amount of psychotic immaturity.

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[deleted]

Really guys, I thought Estevez was terrible. I'll take Kristofferson's under-acting over Estevez's scenery chewing any day.

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Scenery - chewing. HA HA HA ! ! !

Hard to give credence to anyone who thinks Jon Heder and Casey Affleck are good actors.

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Hmmm...where did I say Jon Heder was a good actor? In fact, did I not say that I don't think he has the acting chops to portray Billy?

Hard to give credence to someone who doesn't seem to comprehend what he reads.

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Jon Heder's name should never be uttered in the same breath as "acting" unless prefaced by, "if you want an example of very, very bad," and even thinking about him as Billy the Kid, even only to discredit the notion, is still a damnable offense in any big book.

Casey Affleck is a functioning retard. You failed to address that issue.

Difficult to give credence to someone who lacks the intellectual prowess cannot come up with a phrase synonymous with "give credence to."

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You still haven't explained where you got the idea that I thought Jon Heder was a good actor.

Casey Affleck was brilliant in The Assassination of Jesse James. He needs no defense.

Difficult to give credence to someone who lacks the intellectual prowess cannot come up with a phrase synonymous with "give credence to."

Difficult to give credence to someone who lacks the intellectual prowess to form a coherent sentence.

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Looks like this conversation has dried up, but my two cents: I liked Paul Newman in "The Left-Handed Gun"--not so much as the REAL Billy, but like a real person in a real world. Estevez is good, but he needs to show more depth, not only acting crazy on the surface. He can do it, I think, and has in other films, to some extent, but these days movies don't require a lot of depth in the performances. That's one reason I like "Once Upon A Time In The West" so much. Haven't seen "Benjaman Button" yet, maybe it has rich textures.

"I can understand it, but I don't like it none!"--Cheyenne.

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Loved 'Once Upon a Time in the West'. Bronson & Cardinale crackled.

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Why this is even a topic for discussion is beyond me. Kristofferson was born to play this role and I'm whole heartedly offended that you would merley imply that *beep* EMILIO ESTEVEZ would be a more fitting Billy. What in the world is wrong with you people? This shouldn't even be a hypothetical topic, that would imply that someone could have done a better job in the role.

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Completely concur with the original poster. Young Guns is the best movie depicting Billy the Kid in the history of film. This movie sucked. I turned it off after 12 minutes it was that unbelievable, no allure whatsoever. Young Guns and YGII were perfect, as a pairing, showing the West as it was with BTK around...

"Assaiii...assaiii!"
--Sensei Terry Silver Karate Kid III

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I love this film, but think Emilio was the consummate Billy. Close in age to Billy. Smaller stature. Kris was too tall & too old. Billy was said to have been borderline psychotic. I saw none of that in Kris, but plenty in Emilio. Call it over-acting, if you like, but I think it fit with the supposed historic Billy. I remember thinking that Dylan looked like Billy, but wasn't actor enough, for the role.

Having Dylan, as Alias, a totally fictitious character, getting about the title billing irked me.

So much for historic accuracy. Same goes, though, for Keifer & Lou's characters, in the Young Guns. Had to squeeze other Brat Packers in.

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Esteves played a version of Billy that may or may not have existed. If anyone wants a good idea of what Billy The Kid was probably like they might enjoy the book "Billy The Kid: The Endless Ride".

From everything I've ever read about The Kid he was basically a nice guy who was a bit immature, put his trust in the wrong persons, i.e. Governor Lew Wallace. Unlike his portrayals in the movies he doesn't appear to have been a sadistic killer and while four death's have been directly attributed to him (the first being self defense) he only shot one man in cold blood, Bob Olinger, the last man he killed.

One day someone will make a movie that basically tells the story the way it was. And it wouldn't bother me if Henry McCarty was played by Shia LaBeouf or Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Pat Garrett by Timothy Omundson and the movie directed by Andrew Dominic who made the definitive Jesse James film, The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford. That would be a film to see.

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Wallace, by MANY accounts, double-crossed the Kid.

WILLIAM Henry McCarty. That's where 'Billy' came from.

I think LeBouef & Gordon-Levitt are both too old now. Emilio was only 27 when he played him.

The rest you mentioned would be intriguing.

Pity Sam's dead & Walter Hill doesn't do much anymore.


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Ollinger wasn't killed in cold blood. He would often taunt the Kid. But it goes back further. Ollinger was one of Tunstall's killers.

Read about Ollinger he was a cold blooded killer who kept getting away with his crimes. His own mother said if there's a hell he's surely there. Ollinger got what was coming to him.

Billy's murder of Bell was really the only person he killed that didn't deserve it. Based on his own account of what he told people he felt bad about killing Bell. But when your setenced to hang I guess you do what you gotta do

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Alias is mentioned in Garrett's book about the Kid. Might be totally fictional, but there is historical precedent. There's no evidence that the Kid was borderline psychotic. Also, why does no one complain that James Coburn was too old to play Pat Garrett? Garrett was only 31 when he killed Billy the Kid. Is it simply because everyone acts like they care about historical accuracy even if it's about a subject they know very little about?

Also Keifer and Lou in Young Guns both played real historical characters (Doc Scurlock and Chavez Y Chavez). They changed each character's death for the sequel but they weren't fictional.

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There are a lot less accounts (that I know of) of details about Garrett. There are many about Billy being killed @ 21. Billy's age is mentioned frequently, when there are accounts of him.

There's even question if Billy & Pat were friends--or just acquaintances.

Interesting. I read the wikipedia page on William H. Bonny(William McCarty). I never saw Scurlock or Chavez y Chavez mentioned, though I did see Dave Rudabaugh & Dick Brewer.

Nor did I see an 'Alias'. I even did a search for 'Alias' on google. No results. I thought I recalled reviews saying 'Alias' was created FOR Dylan. Maybe not. That was 42 years ago.

Of course, that was only one source, but I was curious enough to read more about it.

Doing a separate search for Scurlock, I found him on Wikip. Also, I found Chavez y Chavez. They both rode with Billy--whether Billy was the leader--not sure.

Chavez died of natural causes in '24.

This is the only film I have seen them mentioned either, though.

Of course, that was only one source, but I was curious enough to read more about it.

Coburn was 45--playing 31.Kris was 37--playing 21.

Wikipedia has a great page about the Peckinpah film. It reports that Sam originally considered Bo Hopkins as Billy. He is 6 years younger than Kris, and he played 'Crazy Lee' in Peckinpah's masterpiece, 'The Wild Bunch'.




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My point is, people act like they care about accuracy when complaining about how old the Kid looks in the film, but no one ever complains about Garrett's age. Why are people complaining about historical accuracy if they haven't actually done much reading about the real history?

There's actually a lot more info about Garrett's life than the Kid's. We have no idea where the Kid was born or even what his real name is (Could be Henry McCarty or could be William Henry McCarty, but for years it was accepted fact that he was born with the name William Bonney). Before his death, the Kid himself told a census taker that he was 26 years old. Most agree that he was 21, but there's no certainty about that.

Paulita Maxwell said that Garrett & the Kid were "like two peas in a pod", she might have been lying, but John P. Meadows, a friend of Garrett's and the Kid's, said Garrett told the Kid to leave the territory over a card game (much like in the film).

As for Alias, he's mentioned in Pat Garrett's book on Billy the Kid, co-written with Ash Upson in 1882 (a year after the Kid's death), on page 14: Billy's partner doubtless had a name which was his legal property, but he was so given to changing it that it was impossible to fix on the right one. Billy always called him 'Alias.'

Alias also wasn't written for Dylan. He's in Wurlitzer's script long before Dylan was attached. He's an itchy, nervous stutterer, and though Dylan didn't do the stuttering, he got the itchiness down pretty good.

Bo Hopkins was considered, but the studio didn't think he was a big enough star. The guy Peckinpah really wanted for Billy was Jon Voight, who wanted to work with Peckinpah. For some reason that didn't work out. I can't remember if it was a scheduling conflict or just miscommunication. Voight would have been a perfect mix of youthfulness and weariness. I think Kristofferson is great in the film, but he wasn't able to build on a somewhat underwritten part, at least not in the way Voight would have. I think the deepness of his voice also makes people less willing to accept him as the Kid. I know that Peckinpah was trying to show an outlaw that is at the end of his rope, so I accept an older actor (a 21 yr old wouldn't get that weariness across). This is because Peckinpah was enamored with a brilliant fictionalization of the Kid called The Authentic Death of Hendry Jones that portrays the outlaw as a burn-out. Peckinpah wrote a really good adaptation of the novel in the 1950s. His draft was thrown out and that film ended up being One-Eyed Jacks, which had little to do with the book. Peckinpah then used pieces of his Hendry Jones script when rewriting Rudy Wurlitzer's Pat Garrett screenplay.



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I agree w/Samoan Bob.

I thought YG was horrible. It's been said that PG&BtK is more about the 1970s sensibilities than the 1870s. I think that was a critic not thinking deeply enough or just trying to be clever, because there were a lot of similarities in the two periods -- a nation coming off an assassination of a president as well as a country-dividing war would tend to create similar attitudes.

IMO, YG reeked of 1980s sensibilities and was more about showcasing 1980s actors than anything. Heck, why didn't they just stick Molly Ringworm in there, too? I love Repo Man as much as I love (good) Westerns, but I do NOT want to see Otto playing Billy the Kid.

Finally, Casey Affleck was outstanding in the Jesse James movie.

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Casey Affleck was fantastic.

Regarding Pat Garrett, be though he was only 31when he killed the Kid, I like the idea of someone not famous but who is a good actor playing him, thus my choice of Timothy Omundson. One of the things that irritates me (among many in Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid) is the way Coburn as Garrett struts out at the end like he's mister cool when, in reality, it's reported that he and his deputies had to stay inside Peter Maxwell's house all night for fear that Billy's friends (who really loved and cared for him) might get revenge for his shooting.

Someday they'll get it right.

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I really love both actors as Billy but I think Kristofferson was better.

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Estevez! Ha. He only ever got on screen because of his papa.

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