Watched Grand Prix a excellent movie, and than watched the extras. They said they wanted Mcqueen for the Garner role, but there was a disaggrement so Mcqueen decided to make Le Mans, to complete.
He should have taken the Garner role, Le Mans is total 3rd rate put up against Grand Prix, the acting, the camera work, its a poor film.
No wonder there is NO SE with extras and better sound, its not worth doing.
Sorry, cannot agree. Le Mans is simply the best car racing film done to this day.
shareHave you even seen Grand Prix?
shareTwo different movies. Grand Prix is more soap opera than race movie--but it does have some good footage and great cameos. The genius of McQueen is in cutting the script to the bone and keeping the acting natural. Those kaleidoscope 60's montages in Grand Prix didn't age well, did they?
shareI would agree on the acting except as you said the script was cut to the bone, there were barely scraps there.
it was 100 minutes of car porn interspersed with people not saying much.
I didn't know anything about any of the characters except her husband died last year or something, so I didn't give two hoots who won or if anything happened to any of them.
That's why Grand Prix was far better it built up the characters which made the car porn in that more interesting and the climax more exciting.
Le Mans was one of the dullest movies I've ever seen, they even managed to make the crashes dull.
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---it was 100 minutes of car porn interspersed with people not saying much.
I didn't know anything about any of the characters---
That's shy is the best car porn/racing movie ever made.
I have not watched Gran Prix, but just by the trailers is seems like a trashy drama, with some cars racing incidentially.
Who needs people? Who needs a back story? Who needs characters?
The two lead characters in this movie are Porsche, and Ferrari. All the other characters are just filling.
I have seen both films and think "Grand Prix" is a lot better I can understand peoples views about it being like a soap opera though. It is a fun movie with characters, to me "Le Mans" does not have any which makes more like a documentay but the drivers seem so dull plus the guy doing the commentating's voice almost sent me to sleep LOL!!!:-) If you want to see a real racing documentary that I think is a lot better that this movie you should check out "Champions Forever", also known as "one on one", and "The Quick and The Dead". It is narrated by Stacy Keach star of the 80's T.V. series Mike Hammer. The DVD was filmed due in the 1973 F1 season and you get to see interviews with the drivers, great racing footage and as a treat for the ladies then racer Francois Cevert naked a part from his under pants puting on his fire proof clothing!!!!:-) This really lit my fire!!!:-) On the down side you also see footage of accidents and death of drivers ETC. There is a very nasy scene at the start of racing driver's Tom Pryce's car hitting a marshall both men were killed at the South African Grand Prix 1n 1977 (I think the version I own is re-issue). There is a copy of this DVD to buy on Ebay. when searching for it type in Champions forever F1 and you will find it. Or you can watch it for free on youtube.:-)
shareI understand people's opinion about these two movies, Gran Prix and Le Mans, but they are very different. The more mainstream Gran Prix was more of a soap opera, but it played well. For those of us who would just as soon watch the race and the cars Le Mans will always be the top choice for race movies, always.
As for those two people flaming each other over and over without cause all I can say is don't you hate it when parents leave their computers on and the kids get on here and act like, well kids...
Both are very different movies. Grand Prix was made by a director who loved racing. The love story was included to get a studio to foot the bill. Only a studio committee could approve of such a story. Who ever heard of a fashion magazine sending a reporter all around the world to cover a whole racing season? Ridiculous. And Eva Marie Saint? Please. Now that French chick was hot and in my eyes a better actress. Even Jessica Walters was good but EMSt.? PU!! John Frankenheimer could have stuck any other plot line between the race scenes and still had a racing movie classic. The race scenes are what drew us to the movie not the love story. I love how each race had its own flavor. The "ballet montage", the "fan perspective", the "wet", etc. JF had to have loved racing to get it so right.
Le Mans is a movie made by a racer. Very little fluff. Who needs words? Wings was a silent movie about WWI fighter pilots. It held you with the flying and fighting without words. In Le Mans, McQueen was in an accident the previous year that took the life of the woman's husband. When they meet the following year they feel awkward with each other. He feels guilty though it wasn't his fault. She wants to blame him but she knows she can't. They come to an understanding and move on. What's so hard about that. When McQueen meets his main competition they share some chit-chat. None of the "I'll put him in the wall" type of crap from movies like Days of Thunder or Driven. Just two professionals tipping their hats to one another. That's real my friends. That's why, though I love both movies, I think Le Mans is the best racing movie ever.
Very well said!
I was 8 years old when Le Mans came out, and since then I must've seen it in excess of 100 times, mostly after I found it on DVD (I wore out one player by running this film on Loop for about two weeks straight!).
I just started to watch Grand Prix for the first time (since most everybody says it's "vastly superior" to Le Mans), and I got about as far as that first scene at the party with Eva Marie Saint, "OhMyGAWD! This is so boring! I just don't care about racers shmoozing with kings at parties, or fashion writers doing articles about them!"
Had to put Le Mans back on to get the bad taste out of my mouth.
I'll probably have to give Grand Prix another shot at some point, though.
Are you sure your moniker isn't 'GoldenGooseNumber1'?
Your comment/s are, for starters, written as if being drawled out by a drunkard, which therefore makes your mis-spellings and abysmal grammar an utter embarrassment to whoever schooled you, not to mention impossible to understand. Do you understand this?
As an example - what does "...decided to make Le Mans, to complete." mean? You've got me stumped, and I study English!
But that is not my point.
You obviously have zero clue about the real life race that this movie focuses on. The cars are real. Many of the drivers are/were professional drivers, the track/circuit is real. This movie is not about the actors. It is about the cars, the 24 hours, the speed, the smell, the sound, the lack of rules, the danger, the stamina. And of course the car that has covered the most distance.
But I possibly shouldn't have shared that with you, as I'm obviously writing to an idiot and I doubt whether you will grasp my point.
What more do you want, you little baby girlie type?
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
Your comment/s are, for starters, written as if being drawled out by a drunked, which therefore makes your mis-spellings and abyssmal grammar an utter embarressment to whoever schooled you, not to mention impossible to understand. Do you understand this?
Nope not a word, can you try to write English Please!
As an example - what does "...decided to make Le Mans, to complete." mean? You've got me stumped, and I study English!
U study English, makes sense with the kids of today!
But that is not my point.
Than what is prey tell?
You obviously have zero clue about the real life race that this movie focuses on. The cars are real. Many of the drivers are/were professional drivers, the track/curcuit is real. This movie is not about the actors. It is about the cars, the 24 hours, the speed, the smell, the sound, the lack of rules, the danger, the stamina. And of course the car that has covered the most distance.
U study English so this is correct is it?
I dont think so, study English dont you mean you are in kindergarten?
But I possibly shouldn't have shared that with you, as I'm obviously writing to an idiot and I doubt whether you will grasp my point.
Do you often write messages to yourself
What more do you want, you little baby girlie type?
Yep very grown up, from "Someone who studies English"
"Nope not a word, can you try to write English Please!"
"U study English, make sense with the kids of today!"
"Than what is prey tell?"
"U study English so this is correct is it?
I dont think so, study English dont mean you are in kindergarten?"
"Do you often write messages to yourself"
"Yep very grown up, from "Someone who studies English" "
Every one of your scribbles are incorrect. 100% wrong. Zero right. Well done 'Bruce-goose4'.
Read these attempts at grammar to your English teacher for a response. I dare say your teacher will be more embarressed. But there may be a light at the tunnel end as he/she will probably concentrate some 'one on one time' with you.
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
Every one of your scribbles are incorrect. 100% wrong. Zero right. Well done 'Bruce-goose4'.
Zero Right? now thats great English!
Is that it? Is that your best?
Correct me if you think you can. Hint - dictionary.
Ironically enough, your 6 word retort has two glaring mistakes AND you got what I wrote wrong. Too funny, too sad.
Get back to the movie, 'Brass-goose4'.
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
And get back to learning English
As you are NOT very good at the Queens English
Ah, BrassGoose01 - That is a very unoriginal comeback - taking what I've written to you and turning it around. Childish. Unimaginative. Uninventive. Cowardly. Gormless. Dullard. Drongo...
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
As you are NOT very good at the Queens English.
Neither are you pal. The Queen would probably be none to plussed at you addressing her as the Queen. There is only one Queen of England and all references to Her Royal Highness should be made in upper case. Further to this, surely 'The Queen's' would make more sense in relation to your observation, since by the laws of grammer, the english language when refered to as The Queen's english should be written so as to illustrate that it is either something that belongs to her, or derives from her reign. Punctuate your ramblings correctly if you want to be taken seriously, flower.
"This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional bloodsport."
Michael Delaney
Spelling mistakes & fictional words by phlbirchall while supposedly correcting me.
"...refered..." try "...referred...".
"...Queen's english..." try "...Queen's English...".
"...none to plussed..." try "...nonplussed...".
And if there was a few words such as "...none to plussed...", the word 'to' would be spelt as 'too'.
Also, try commenting on the film subject 'Le Mans', teacher girlie.
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
Well, I just read the "idiot rap."
I will have to agree with goose on this one snore. See if you can make this out over your absentee ballot and your Obama coffee mug.
U R A DIK!
kingarthurup - Has it ever occurred to you witless twats that I do NOT live in your country? You 'septics' are so full of yourselves, so far up your own arses, that this obviously doesn't.
The grammar & spelling is correct AS FAR AS MY COUNTRY is concerned. Kapish?
So your comment about "...absentee ballot and your Obama coffee mug." has zero bearing, excepting I expect you are a racist turd who deserves to be presented to the races you judge as being inferior to your 'good' self for them to deal with you as they please.
Up for that concept, nanobrain?
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
Good for you snoreflottado!!! You took the words right out of my keyboard. That guy who said he's an English teacher demonstrates just why the internet is overflowing with bad grammar, lousy spelling and general ineloquence. And while I'm here, I own both "Grand Prix" and "Le Mans" on DVD, and I've watched "Le Mans" many times and "Grand Prix" once. They're different movies, but my preference is for "Le Mans".
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"George W. Bush thinks that Kyoto is the guy who used to chase the Road Runner"
Mmmm...yes, 'marque917', 'Gooseygooner' is truly one of the worlds Grandest Prix!!
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
The cars are real. Many of the drivers are/were professional drivers, the track/curcuit is real. This movie is not about the actors. It is about the cars, the 24 hours, the speed, the smell, the sound, the lack of rules, the danger, the stamina. And of course the car that has covered the most distance.
I could not agree More, having been to Le-mans Twice for real, I wish i could go back to the 1970 le-mans to see the classics. Experience the more raw atmosphere of that era of motor racing, the film Le-mans gives a better sense of that feeling than Grand-prix.
The sound was terrible....the grainy documentary cinematography was irritating..the dialogue... what little there was.... was very unrealistic and forced...,sad to say McQueen looked very old and weather beaten. The crashes were quite exciting and very realistic tho
shareI prefer Le Mans purely because it's the closest you'll ever get to a real Le Mans race short of driving it yourself. It's clearly made by an enthusiast rather than a studio committee. No it's not perfect but then no movie ever is. I think of Le Mans more as a documentary.
If you're not into cars and racing then, yes, it probably is very dull. But I can appreciate what McQueen was trying to do, and I think he largely succeded.
Grand Prix is an entertaining film but I found the non-racing parts got quite dull in places. That doesn't make it a bad film either.
If you want to see a far more dull soap opera with occasional racing watch Winning.
If you're not into cars, racing or realism in any way then try Days of Thunder.
People should spend more time watching movies and less time bitching about IMDB spoilers.
STFU, they're both good. Maybe you should watch them when you're not on crack....
shareThis thread is too funny. Two guys in a flame war over a difference of opinion about a movie. And to top it off, one of them claims to "study English", when he himself has made several spelling mistakes. The mistakes are as follows:
drunked s/b drunk
mis-spellings is not hyphenated
abyssmal s/b abysmal
embarressment s/b embarrassment
track/curcuit s/b track/circuit
He needs to study harder.
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Duly noted & amended. Thankyou.
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
"Le Mans" is the better racing movie. In "Grand Prix" the cars are imitations - they are F3 cars made to look like F1 cars. In "LeMans" they are the real things - the producers had every 917 available for use in the film. The most real thing in Grand Prix is the footage at Spa, Belgium when they were allowed to have a camera car follow the field for the first lap. In "Le Mans" the Porsche 908 camera car was entered in the race and placed ninth but hadn't completed enough laps to be classified as a finisher due to extra stops to refill the film in the cameras.
Steve McQueen didn't make Le Mans to compete with Grand Prix. Grand Prix was released in 1966 and Le Mans wasn't filmed until 1970 and released in 1971. McQueen made it because he wanted to make a racing movie and he did. I like both films but they are very different. Le Mans is the most authentic racing movie ever made.
One final bit of trivia, during a SPEED TV documentary on the making of Le Mans it was said that they started filming racing scenes two weeks before the script was delivered.
Mqueen wanted to make more of a documentary. That's what Le Mans is essentially.
And the camera work on the race scenes in this movie is pretty damn good.
I agree, the soap opera aspect of "Grand Prix" took away from the film. My father loved the film and we watched it a number of times and it never quite worked for me, barring the race sequences. In comparison, "Le Mans" is a true valentine to racing. I guess John Sturges and the studio wanted a viable commercial story to hang the racing on and McQueen wasn't having any of it. More power to him. I read somewhere that though the film was made for 7.5 mill, it eventually made 19 mill., tho' McQueen didn't see a cent if it. I personally find the film almost elegiac, a salute to a time already going by.
shareIf read my May the 15 post I am sorry BIG TIME!!! Steve did not get it very wrong I did massive confession!!!:-)I watched Le Mans Saturday night and realised how good it was, and the battle between Steve and the Ferrari was really great!!! I think my problem was the fact that with GP. the racing started at the start of the movie so you possibly got into the film streight away where as with LE Mans you had to wait 30 mins before the race got under way. Though seeing the people arriving and camping gave you an idea of getting to the track and waiting for the race to start!!! Sorry for making bad comments about Le Mans.:-) Though the F1 documentary Champions Forever (One By One)is still an excellent documentary!!!:-)
shareThey're both good movies that show lots of racing images that normal folks don't get to experience or couldn't (to young), in a time when racing was a lot purer than todays homoganized formulas, I don't bother following any current racing, haven't for years...to corporate. Both movies are good place holders in time, the story line in each are suspect, who really cares if Jim Garner sleeps with Brian Bedford's wife or if Larry Wilson wins. These movies go a real long way to show great images using quality equipment and a talented cinematograghers, all the action and color of the events in a time that will never be re-created again.
Have you ever seen real documentaries of the time period? Most are some washed out grainy 8 mil shots with like Chris Economacky giving bad color commentary. Only the 'Speed Merchants' is kind of good...Icks and Mario telling stories pool side while Helmet Marko gets eye surgery is a bit morbid.
Hi Sagehaven, I have seen some one called "If Your Are Not Winning Your, Your Not Trying" this was a documentary on the Lotus team filmed during the 1973 season there is a very sad feature in it of when Francois Cevert was killed at Watkins Glen, and I have also seen a Roman Polanski one called "Weekend of a Champion" which focused on Jackie Stewart's weekend at the Monaco Grand Prix in 1971, and there is another on I have seen called Champins Forever ("One By One", The Quick And The Dead" other titles for the same documentary) which I think is a great documentary but you see Tom Pryce's 1977 fatal accident at the start and it is very graffic!!! I think all of the ones I mentioned are of good quality and the Weekend Of A Champion one has some fun candid moments of Jackie Stewart, Helen Stewart and Roman Polanski which are quite funny!!!:-)
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Doesn't matter much to me as I have both but admit I have to skip through on GP to avoid all the boring parts (which comprises 75% of the movie). LeMans however I can tolerate start to finish since 75% is racing
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