MovieChat Forums > The Dirty Dozen (1967) Discussion > Was this an anti-war movie?

Was this an anti-war movie?


Just wondering. I've seen it numerous times.



*****
We are doomed.

reply

It cannot be an antiwar movie when it allows the audience to indulge into watching the manslaughter of Germans burnt to death in a bomb basement shelter. The premise of the film is to kill the high-ranking Germans in the chateau to hamper the German military's ability to respond to D-Day. But the end does not justify the means of brutally kill them.

But hey, it all depends on how you judge the story. If you only allow your senses to indulge into the experience of watching without evaluating the morality below the surface, then it can be seen as an anti-war movie.

I personally find the slaughter of the trapped Germans officers and their innocent wives and mistresses to be a reprehensible, cruel and inhuman act that should not take place in the movie. The fact that the Germans deserved to be punished for their acts of cruelty and inhumanity does not justify to sadistically kill them and allow the audience to celebrate the brutality.

What is your opinion?

Is this an anti-war movie?

reply

The scenes you've described are one of the reasons why I wonder whether this movie was really intended to be anti-war. It's kind of a no-glory war picture. It begins with a hanging, makes the regular Army seem sadistic and incompetent (mainly via the Colonel Breed character and his goons), climaxes with the indiscriminate slaughter of soldiers and civilians, and concludes with a sarcastic comment by Wladislaw.



*****
We are doomed.

reply

I've always thought of this movie in the category of the rebel character bucking authority and the way they do things. From Reisman all the way down through the dozen soldiers.
As for the end, they were short on time and it was the easiest way to kill them the quickest and complete the mission. The non-military people were collateral damage, just like all the civilians that were killed during the war from bombings and other things. Civilian casualties are looked on much differently now than in the 40's.

reply

What would you have done, left the officers alive?

reply

More anti-military than anti-war. There were many satirical and disparaging references to military leaders; 1 Borgnine agreeing with Marvin about the "lunatic" at the top who ordered this mission; 2 The "walk slow, look dumb and act stupid" general; 3 The final scene with the generals telling them "what a good job they did" and Bronson saying it could be become a habit with him killing generals. 4 Marvin's ridiculing of "by the book" officer Ryan. 5 The unrealistic confidence of the German generals that they were totally secure in that location. This is a very entertaining film because of the great cast and this unusual treatment of war time military. And as far as brutal acts of killing, when it comes to war there are no ACTS WHICH ARE NOT BRUTAL.

reply

Thanks for your response. Your analysis makes a lot of sense.


*****
We are doomed.

reply

More anti-military than anti-war.


Probably more anti Brass/real echelon bureaucrat that anti military: Worden, Breed & the rest are portrayed as spit & polish martinets & overly impressed with themselves...meanwhile, as Reisman says, he's not interested in 'embellishments; only results". So it's the classic 'grunts/sharp end' vs Rear Area A-holes' dichotomy-with a dose of sadism thrown in for giggles.





Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

reply

You fail to take into context who is saying what.

Just because they describe one general as a lunatic doesnt mean they describe all generals as lunatics, or that they criticize military in general.

---
You shall have no other Kates before Kate Winslet.

reply

Other than "The Green Berets", and some war comedies, can you name a dramatic war movie that's PRO-war?

reply

Yeah, most of the movies made during WWII. The thing to remember is that TDD was made during the Vietnam war. Of course it was anti-war, like Kelly's Heroes and MASH. As you say about the only movie made during that time that was pro-was was The Green Berets.

reply

You have to separate the mission from the men. These individuals were crooks on death row. They never asked for this assignment like so many officers in an army yet they are called upon to commit horrible actions for the military leaders.

For them this act was the culmination of hard work, team building and rehabilitation their time together and with the Major. In the end these soldiers were glorified even though the military hated them. It was the Major who believed he could make officers out these crooks. In the end he did.

reply

The box office wasn't very strong. Lee Marvin it.
It was an absurdist view of an intelligence operation. Add to all that the murder of the party invitees which IMO was gruesome by design. I didn't really think the Tarantino film was similar but now I see it after seeing DD in a generation. Yes, it is.
#MeTV has been showing it this month.

reply

Neither pro-war nor anti-war, it's deliberately morally ambiguous. The cause is just, the methods are not, and the officer in charge has to wrestle with his conscience through the film.

It's an action film and not realistic... yet the characters are realistic, they seem to be real, flawed human beings, who react to the insane situation believably. It really is a great movie.

reply