MovieChat Forums > Alexis Zorbas (1964) Discussion > i think this movie have some gay conotat...

i think this movie have some gay conotation...


I´m not homossexual or homofobic, but i find in this film some homossexual conotation (by the way, that´s cool, because at that era put anythinng gay in a movie was almos impossible)
But talking with friends, nobody seems to see that way...
my points are:
- Alan bates is clarely gay in the movie (at least in today´s eyes). Is that a proposital choice? The actor is realy good or really bad? ;)
- the movie is about a relation between they too.. but dont seem to me just a ordinary friendship. is more than that. There´s kind of a sensitive way in their interaction, and lot of scenes that show a unusual jealous...
- Bate´s character avoid the contact with the widow justifying himself with the phrase "i´m different", but when he decided to curve to the pressure of zorba, the relation with the widow is clarely maternal.

there´s a lot of little details, like the way he looks and had instant fascination for Zorba, the passive style etc.
someone had this impression too or think it´s possible?

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It seems you´re projecting things. There are a lot of movies with a father/son relationship, and there is some in this movie, with the diference that the age diference is not that great.

Also, unfortunaly, nowadays male friendship is not encouraged. Since everyone is afraid to be labeled as an homossexual male friendship is much more shallow than it was a few decades ago. Nowadays anything slightly diferent from watching a sport game together is seen as slightly homossexual. In this movie its not.

And there is also the fact that Zorba is greek, and not only the greeks but a lot of latin people (like italian, brazilians and so on) are much more friendly between each other. A colder relationship is what you would expect from americans or british.

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EVERY movie has gay conotations somewhere, according to someone...

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Okay, so first of all the movie have NOTHING to do with the LGBT things. Nothing! It is a pure life-adventure with great philosophical and comical elements. That's all.

And what I've read that it represents women badly... Guys this is nothing at all. The movie shows again - NOTHING! See below.

The book... well that's another thing. It goes (as always books do) into much greater detail in both subjects. I am currently a bit over the middle, first reading ever. Must say this book is the best thing I've ever read!

First of all the gay thing - while the author never mentions a word about the sexuality of Basil (forget Alan Bates here! Let's discuss Basil only!), actually the book begins quite disturbing in the first 5-10 pages describing in deep detail the deep emotional connection between Basic and a very dear best friend of him. It's strictly platonic in general with few mentions about touching hands as I remember. The author goes into such deep detail that I was wondering if this is written by a homosexual person.

However Zorba is clearly into women. This is mentioned trough the entire book and this is the second flaw of Zorba (his greatest flaw is the fear of getting old). Women are the source of youth to Zorba. He is clearly into the flesh pleasures - eating, drinking and women, with one great exception - dancing and music (especially his santouri).

The book witnesses the transition of Basic from the love (yes, this is the word) to his friend to the love to the widow (at least to the middle of the book where I am now, not sure what happens later).

As for women presentation... look now, there is one very general thing you all don't get here. The Zorba world is not the world of Downtown Athens (where I suppose they lived different, can't say I am not Greek). The world of Zorba is Crete! And Crete is provincial Greece. And there live a different breed of people - raw and with different understanding of things but still charming and good people. Wise people too. I am from Bulgaria (the capital - Sofia) originally and must tell you people in the deep province in the whole Balkan region are pretty much the same (Zorba mentions this several times - Bulgaria, Macedonia, Turkey, Greece etc) and I do know these people (lived with them in the army).

The world of these people you see is much different today. The book goes into deep detail and there are few disturbing episodes really, but these people are the Balkanians, living in the deep province. However as I said, this does not makes them bad. These same people are the people of Sparta as well (remember the movie "300") and somewhere not so far is the city of Marathon as well, so this is a land of heroes too and the heroes are grandparents of these same guys of Crete. The kill of the widow and these type of things are deeply forgotten and no longer practiced on the Balkans. In the past however what do you think the people in the deep provinces in your country did? Wild Wild West my dears, where you would be stolen, sold for slavery and who knows what else. In London you would be stabbed by Jack the Ripper probably. Do the world of Oliver Twist or Uncle Tom's Cabin is so much different? Don't answer. So stop being so critical and enjoy the movie as it is - a fragment of the lost world of Crete.

And grab the book. As much joy there is in the movie with the fun and the teachings of Zorba, in the book it is multiplied by ten.

"The sleeper must be awaken!"

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I don't think there's a gay connotation besides a gay man living a repressed life. He's definitely gay. The director expertly shows the widows reaction as she sees his reaction to her nudity. Then his hands are shown clenched behind her back.

But the friendship is platonic with Zorba. If anything I took it as a coming out story.

Amy: I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!

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luciok says > there´s a lot of little details, like the way he looks and had instant fascination for Zorba, the passive style etc. someone had this impression too or think it´s possible?
All the details you speak of are in you own imagination. The impression I have is that you need help! Hopefully during the past ten years you've been able to get that help.

But talking with friends, nobody seems to see that way...
Your friends don't see things the way you do because the points you presented don't support your conclusions. What your comments suggest is that you don't have a clue about friendship and you lack a clear understanding of what constitutes normal human behavior and interactions.

the movie is about a relation between they too.. but dont seem to me just a ordinary friendship. is more than that. There´s kind of a sensitive way in their interaction, and lot of scenes that show a unusual jealous...
Oh, I see, it's okay to bash straight men. They couldn't possibly have close friendships; they can't be sensitive; or even jealous of each other unless it involves sex. Do you even know how absurd that sounds? No, I guess you wouldn't or you wouldn't think the way you do. If you had suggested they couldn't possibly be gay for those same reasons, all the politically correct types would be in an uproar. Where's the outrage in defense of straight man?

Alan bates is clarely gay in the movie (at least in today´s eyes). Is that a proposital choice? The actor is realy good or really bad? ;)
I'm pretty sure Alan Bates was not gay but this raises a good point. If a gay actor had been cast in that role and was attracted to Anthony Quinn, that might show up in his performance and lead people to think the character was supposed to be gay too. I can see how that might cause a lot of confusion. Movies are make believe but if we have to question every single detail it's a fail. The reverse is also true, if a gay actor is cast opposite a female lead who is his love interest, the lack of attraction would show. Not all of us can pretend away everything and accept things as they are not. Our brains simply won't allow it.

Bate´s character avoid the contact with the widow justifying himself with the phrase "i´m different", but when he decided to curve to the pressure of zorba, the relation with the widow is clarely maternal.
So now if someone says they're different it automatically means they're gay. Nonsense! What I understood him to mean when he said 'I'm different' is that he's not in the habit of having casual, meaningless sex with a random woman even if that's what she wants. Sleeping with miscellaneous women was Zorba's thing; he even said it was a sin for a man to let a woman, who wanted him, sleep alone. Basil also sensed there might be trouble if he took up with the woman all the other men in town wanted. He knew their frustrations would lead to violence. It turns out he was right.

When he finally went to her it was because he was feeling low, defeated, broken. He wanted to be comforted and was beginning to take into consideration some of the things Zorba had been telling him about life.

I´m not homossexual or homofobic, but i find in this film some homossexual conotation (by the way, that´s cool, because at that era put anythinng gay in a movie was almos impossible)
Yeah, you're probably in denial. The things you say reveal more about yourself than you're willing to admit or accept. Why would it be 'cool' to put anything gay in a movie then or now? I'm not saying don't make those movies. I'm sure they have an audience but it doesn't include everyone. What I don't approve of is doing what you're trying to say happened with this movie; sneaking it in. People should be able to opt out of watching things that don't interest them.

If I knew some movie was about gays or had a gay subtext, it would not be on my watch list. I know people may not like hearing that but that is just too bad. There are many other genres I have no interest in seeing and wouldn't appreciate them being slipped into movies either. No one ever calls me a bigot or insensitive when I say I don't like horror movies or westerns or when I say I don't appreciate gratuitous violence or sex in a movie. So get over it!


Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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if you want to be specific, then he would be bisexual - gays don't kiss girls and they don't sleep with them

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