MovieChat Forums > The Children's Hour (1961) Discussion > film typical of it's era SPOILERS

film typical of it's era SPOILERS

posted 17 years ago by tkrolak
15 replies | jump to latest

The Children's Hour, according to Vito Russo's history of gays and lesbians in the films, The Celluloid Closet, was the first Hollywood movie to show the suicide of a lesbian.

It was the release of this movie, in December 1961, and Advise and Consent, six months later, that ended the Hollywood Production Code system of censorship, as it had been practiced since 1934.

These two films, although achieving a certain amount of visibility for homosexuals, did not begin positive characterizations of gays and lesbians on the screen. Suicide became a convenient way to get rid of them in scripts in the sixties. Other examples were The Sergeant, Reflections in a Golden Eye, and, the most ridiculous one of them all, The Fox.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ruderabbit 17 years ago

The same "sacrificial lamb" thing was done with African-Americans on film back in the day as well as other minorities. The psychology is pretty simple to figure out if you put aside cynicism. These films are speaking to the most bigoted audience members (or the bigotry that exists in all of us) by saying, okay...so now they're dead, do you feel guilty? Just a human being like anyone else, still got something against them? It sounds laughable to us now, but that's what purpose these type of films served at the time. That's how movies taught social lessons. Next up: the black judge and the gay best friend.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ruderabbit 17 years ago

Uhm, I was referring to the "gay best friend" in romantic comedies - a stock character long before gays were out of the celluloid closet. I think they were a little more than friends in "Brokeback Mountain", LOL.

But yeah I guess that the 'gays having to die' cliche extends all the way up to "Boys Don't Cry" - but as it's a true story, it's not a cliche. And it really had much more to do with 'sexual ambiguity' and posing as the opposite sex (in small town America no less) than it does homosexuality.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] tkrolak 17 years ago

Regarding Horton, who were "Mr. Peabory and Sherman"?

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] tkrolak 17 years ago

I am a baby boomer too. Rocky and Bullwinkle are well remembered by me. Your post said "Mr. Peabory". But the names of the characters I could not recall anyway. Edward Everett Horton's voice of Mr. Peabody I can recall as well as the time machine. There is an image of the nerdish boy with the glasses in my not completely failed mental computer. However, it was just his name of Sherman I forgot.

Still etched in my trivia department are Rocky the flying squirrel, with his goggles, and Bullwinkle the moose. Bullwinkle would use the exclamation of "chillybeeby!". Why he said it, I don't know. Just to be funny, I guess.

Rocky and Bullwinkle were pals who had adventures and caught bad guys. But the funniest characters in the show were the Russian spies, Boris and Natasha.

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[–] quexbot 17 years ago

I don't care if this movie was made yesterday or a thousand years ago.
I think any movie that tells you that Lesbians deserve to die is sickening. What are they trying to tell? That I don't belong in the world of the living? That as innocent as a Lesbian may be, she can be granted sainthood via martyrdom, and go live in heaven, where she cannot possible disturb the peace and well functioning of our great society, but she cannot possibly be among other living citizens?
This is the kind of movie that imprinted in all Lesbian minds the following: It *has* to end bad because it's a Lesbian love story. This is a horrible lie. It may sound ridiculous, but I've heard this line one time too many for young Lesbians. It breaks my heart every time I hear it. People to this day will kill themselves, or let themselves be killed because of who they love. It's reality, not fiction. This is horrible.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] tkrolak 17 years ago

As Lillian Hellman said, the basic theme of the play The Children's Hour was the effect of a child's lie. Lesbianism was a subplot. But Vito Russo, in The Celluloid Closet, pointed out that the play had shown Martha's growing love for Karen. In the film, she is shown as only a close friend until the first dramatic climax when she reveals her love to Karen. He quotes MacLaine as saying this didn't make sense. She and Audrey Hepburn argued with the director,
William Wyler, about this but were overruled.

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[–] Beau_Buffet (341) 2 years ago

"I think any movie that tells you that Lesbians deserve to die is sickening. What are they trying to tell?"

It's SO clear that the movie is telling us that it's the society's view of homosexuality that is wrong, NOT the fact of being gay.

You really think a lesbian would kill herself in 1961 if everyone around were okay with this?

It's the bigotry of the society that is detrimental to itself, not the homosexuality of a percentage of its people. Republicans are working hard to bring the society back to this horrible state, but, fortunately, the world is (very slowly) evolving.

[–] redban (6574) 3 years ago

"the suicide of a lesbian" -- but I don't think Martha really was lesbian. She was saying she was a lesbian only because she was frustrated and distraught. The idea that she would be unconsciously lesbian (i.e. she was lesbian but just didn't know it) isn't very convincing, and the idea that the lie helped bring out her lesbianism would mean the lie produced a positive effect, which contradicts the movie's whole criticism of lies & rumors