Martha's breakdown scene - The Children's Hour (1961) Discussion

[–] wishful_thinker_777 19 years ago

I too can relate to MacLaine's character. Needless to say, I have a similar situation and find strength in Martha's ability to face her "demons." I also know what it's like to have your reputation sullied due to rumors. (My friend's and mine were while attending a Christian school. However I was just beginning to understand my sexuality and my friend was and is still adamently atraight.) MacLaine got the emotion dead on. As for the acting...yes I do believe that we have made some headway in the acting department over the years, but for its time, this performance is truly amazing. To all of the others out there who have been touched in some way by this film, straight and gay alike, you are not alone.

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[–] Latinfilms 19 years ago

OMG, this films is fabulous. I love Shirley McClaine now. Her performance was top notch.

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[–] herbidacious 19 years ago

The scene *does* feel a tad highly strung, but I suppose that would be the average reaction if a school ma'am realised she was gay in those days. I'm slightly annoyed by Karen's insistence that it's not true, she's only talking herself into it, but you can only assume that springs from the shock of the moment.

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[–] zdrabik-1 18 years ago

Hi all! I live in Hungary and Im looking for a way to obtain a copy of this movie. Could anyone help me by suggesting a suitable method for me?

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[–] herbidacious 18 years ago

Have you tried looking on Amazon?

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[–] liss54 18 years ago

Although I wasn't carried into the depths of Martha's sadness and breakdown, I did start clapping when she finally blurted out that she loved Karen (and I was alone in a dark apt, haha).
I really wanted to scream at them "you're alone in a big house, let yourselves fall in love!! - Makeout, for god's sake!!!" --It was so frustrating. And they're both so beautiful. (I thought they had "screen chemistry" but it could be wishful thinking).
I can't believe that's how society used to be, but I do know that a lot of America is still basically like that. It sickens me. Move to cities and be strong!!!

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[–] brunchie 18 years ago

Here's food for thought. Like you said, "you're alone in a big house, let yourselves fall in love!! - Makeout, for god's sake!!!", what if Martha's going upstairs "to sleep" was actually an invitation to cuddle but when Karen didn't and walked out, Martha felt alone and unrequited in her feelings and that's what led to her suicide?
Es todo bueno!

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[–] DanaShelbyChancey 18 years ago

I am not gay, so I can't see it in the same light, but the theme of the story is as much about the power of a rumor-- to destroy.

I feel as if that power made Martha doubt herself, made her wonder about things she hadn't given much thought to before. Her Aunt says she never showed any interest in men, but there are no hints she liked women either. Perhaps Martha was just a passionless type of person. The rumors and the uproar made her wonder, and doubt. I don't necessarily take it that Martha finally found out she was gay.

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[–] fabGirl 18 years ago

Well!

Shirley MacLaine played the character with the mind set that Martha was a lesbian and had feelings for Karen. The film is heavily cut and there are alot of footage that never ended up in the film because of The Hays Code that indicated to the audiance that Martha had sexual feelings for Karen.

Shirley MacLaine talks about this in The Celluloid Closet.

Remember, the main grain of the film is the lie, although a lie, its the juxtoposition of it being the truth, the catalyst, that destroys Martha.

All lies have elements of truth in them for them to be convincing. Why else did the adults believe the child. The evidence was there.

The film makes little sense, you have to read the play and research the stroy it is actually based on of two female teachers in Scotland, to understand that is is a subject of homosexuality and the prejudice of society.

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[–] jdmartin61 17 years ago

I'm a 45-year-old devotedly life-long gay man. I was physically attracted to men since I could remember. I even grew up very much in the company of gay men and women because one of my parents was gay. "Homosexuality" wasn't openly spoken of in the '60s and '70s (in my recollection) the way it is now so I had to kind of "learn by experience" about my own "gayness" just as so many other men and women have done. I believe I gained a great deal from that whole process. Who knows?

In the late 1970s, I saw a documentary on TV (late-night, of course) about the portrayal of homosexuality in film over the decades. By the time a montage of old film scenes reached the more modern period I was so moved by the "breakdown scene" In a film called "The Children's Hour" (I hadn't heard of it before). I had known of the actress, Shirley MacLaine, by that time but I didn't know that she was the actress in the scene until years later. I was so moved by her performance in the excerpt I saw. It would be many more years before I knew she played the role. "Life" magazine issued a cover picture of her and a story about the film at time the movie was released.
I finally saw the movie in my late 20s.

Some of the other TV documentary footage of the 1960s showed men in an extremely "campy" light and I didn't relate to it, except that I thought some of the men were attractive. I knew by then that real gay men and women come in all "shapes and sizes" like non-gay men and women. DISCLAIMER - about this last: Remember that I'm speaking of a memory from when I was about 16 or 17. Please do not take offence at what I say in my middle years.

Life's experiences can be the best teacher.

Peace,
John Martin, Texas

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[–] greendimension 18 years ago

I agree with what you say Dana. I dont think Martha was gay. She was a victim of circumstances and coincidences and sheer bad luck. That scene where she touches Karen's hand and then withdraws it because she became afraid of displaying her feelings as a friend. She was confused to the point where she was seeing everything in a sexual way.

The movie is based on how lies and rumors affect ppl, but from the posts here, it looks like those who support homosexuality want to intrepet the movie as such.

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[–] MovieBuff1414 17 years ago

I felt like you too. I'm also christian, but then I looked at the books in the New Testament that said stuff against homosexuals and saw that they were homophobic out of context, but they were not directly against homosexuals in context. Plus, as long as you live by love, you need no boundries.

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[–] napalminthemorning47 17 years ago

Incredible scene. One of the most emotional and powerful scenes I've ever seen in a film and I've seen A LOT of films. I've been deeply in love with Audrey Hepburn for a long time and she is pretty much my favorite actress of all time and she was wonderful, naturally. But MacLaine stole the show. One of the best performances from any actress.

"Of course I'm home. I'm always home. I'm uncool." Lester Bangs, Almost Famous

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[–] twilightfun 17 years ago

greendimension: "The movie is based on how lies and rumors affect ppl, but from the posts here, it looks like those who support homosexuality want to intrepet the movie as such."

And I'm sure you mean in the way that gay people only CHOOSE to desire the ones they do, right? (Note the sarcasm)

True, the movie does focus on how lies affect, but...there is, as stated, truth in lies. Now, it's up to you to WANT TO interpret your acceptance of those truths, opposed to alternatively trying to sweep them under the rug as a convenient method to hide what you refuse to believe floats other boats. The problem, though, is that there's a reality of attraction/desire besides your own.

Personal decisions are of whether we'll attempt to make moves -- NOT of how we feel to do what we do.

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[–] greendimension 17 years ago

oh, chill

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[–] strawberryicecream 17 years ago

Oh wow, I just watched this movie and I don't think anyone has ever broken my heart like Shirly Mclain. She was soooo believable in that scene, especially during the very begining when she was gasping after every phrase, like just thinking about it was physically painful. And when she cries out, "I can't bear to have you touch me! I can't bear to have you look at me! I just feel so sick and dirty!", I just wanted to give her a hug and kiss her sweet little face and tel her it's okay. One of the most tragic characters I've ever seen in a movie.

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[–] jdmartin61 17 years ago

I first saw the last part of Martha's breakdown scene when I was about 16 or 17 as a part of a late-night TV documentary of how gay life had been portrayed in the movies from older to modern (then the 1970s) times.

I knew at the time who Shirley MacLaine [Beatty] and Audrey Hepburn [Ruston] were but I didn't realise that it was they who were performing in this excerpt at that time. All I saw was MacLaine's expert performance as the anguished young woman who was compelled to bare her soul. The whole experience helped me learn to shape my own life as a gay youth. I had never doubted to myself that I was gay and for the first time I had a raw understanding of older times when even realising that you were truly a homosexual could be very traumatic for so many young people.

John Martin, 46, Texas

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[–] mrsbookbabe 17 years ago

My sister and I first saw this movie when we were in our early teens (it was on TV - around 1968 or so). We were both amazed at the acting and the subject matter. I had seen a different version of this story (it is called These Three) and they managed to take this story and change it around so much -- the girl at the school says that she saw one of the women's boyfriends with the other women! Merle Oberon played the part that Audrey Hepburn played in the 1961 film. In the credits it said it was based on Lillian Hellman's The Children's Hour. I thought it was sad that a play written sometime in the 1930s had to be so completely redone with no hint of the actual story, but in 1961 they were able to do it justice. So the ending of We Three is "happy" -- no suicide, Merle Oberon gets the guy, yadda yadda this and yadda yadda that!

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[–] hunozthtiluvu 16 years ago

I am still discovering and learning my sexuality, and certainly felt a lot of connections with Martha.

What she went through made me scared to continue watching. I was in a school's computer lab, people kept coming in and finding me hugging to my bag and trying to hold the tears back while being very reluctant to watch the scene that actually tortured me a bit.

I couldn't help but kept wondering, since it already happened, and they were blamed for something they didn't do; why wouldn't they just do it anyway, so they would feel less angry about the whole discrimination.

yah, I'm sure a relationship is what they wanted the least, and that was a torment to both of them.

I don't intend to be offensive, but I have to defend my opinions.

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[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] carliex3 16 years ago

I always cry during Martha's breakdown.
Shirley MacLaine did such a great job, in my opinion.

chaos is what killed the dinosaurs, darling

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