Why Does Joe Get Such A Bad Rap?

He admitted that he had a shadow of a doubt. That didn't make me feel like he was a bad person, mostly because karen had to force it out of him. What matters to me more than his little doubt was his actions throughout the movie. Always standing up and doing the right thing. That made him the hero in the story for me.

Why are you cutting and pasting this same entry from post to post Mitchmuse??? Cardin was a gooberbrain but your paragraph here makes him seem worse than the Nazis guarding Gardner's character in The Great Escape! Do you have some issues with him or the character he was portraying, baggage from your own life? Well stop spamming the boards with it, go see a councellor.

Imho- If one is exclusively sticking to only what was presented in the screenplay of this brilliantly acted film, then what was psychologically being presented showed Dr. Joe Cardin might be by his actions the only one who tried to move forward in as honest, healthy and positive way as could be expected. Many of the characters seem to allow the tragic circumstances to so wound them that they either refuse to forgive themselves and/or others or seem to be false to themselves because of what has happened. The character of Joe seems to be used as a reference point to showcase how so many around him act falsely either to themselves or toward others by the conflict presented in the story. Perceived doubt and fear can be powerful tools, and the darkroom where one is taken to develop their negatives. Sadly, this even happens to Karen in her relat. with Joe.

In possibly the defining moment of the film Karen is practically badgering and mentally manipulating or forcing Joe to ask if there was anything to the accusation, even though his actions have already spoken louder than words. After what the film presents as a completely sincere and totally reassuring response from Joe, she is shown as momentarily showing him she fully accepts this. But in reality she is not. Each viewer must come to their own conclusion, but it seems the psychological trauma and wounding she has internalized by the accusations of others leads her to not be true or fair to him or herself. She takes matters into her own hands and in a way does not give him the benefit of the doubt that he has overwhelmingly demonstrated by his actions to her and Martha. In her emotionally traumatized state she writes the possible ending between them, which in an ironic way is actually quite selfish. Yes, she is in great pain and worried if things can still be the same between them. But he has shown her every reason to trust him, and so for her to be this way, makes it seem to be all about her doubts and fears. About her internal doubt and fear that she refuses to give herself the benefit of the doubt about,and instead paints her future with Joe with a dark brush, almost trying to cast doubt into his mind.

Despite the wonderful acting by the leads and supporting actors [adult and children], this film leaves quite the depressing and wrong feeling for many in the end. I note to myself that I have seen and heard of true forgiveness and reconcilation displayed thru the power of faith in God and the gospel in real life between people where wrongs were just as great or greater than this film displays. And though obviously this film is dealing with how human deceit, lies and selfish weakness of character can all snowball into incredibly destructive results and not about how faith in God and selfless forgivenss can save all, it does for this viewer show that the absence of true forgiveness and reconciliation can leave a lot of wounded and confused people.

Of course [admittedly wishful thinking here, lol] the film does not show us that Karen after much soul-searching and time to heal remembered the actions and faithfulness of Joe, comes to her senses and returns to him and they marry and become stronger for all the struggle that was forced upon their lives by the lies and suspicions of others.

O.P., I looked at the possibility, too, that Karen just really wanted out of the relationship, for whatever her reasons were. Sometimes it’s hard for people to just be straight up about it. See, I hear people on the tainted marriage theories and all, but when it comes down to reality, either you are both gonna make it work or you’re not; she chose not to because it would not have made her happy – as simple as that. Not a bad thing, but the thing that gets crossed up in a lot of excuses time and time again. Really it’s black and white stuff, to a degree of weighing things to bring the decisions involved. But then, why dwell on it? I mean, it’s her right – as anyone else’s – to be unhappy, before then making the move to find happiness again. And this is to say she’s not a bad person because it was time, she felt, for a change. Again, it’s just sometimes hard for people to say that they simply aren’t “feeling” it anymore…and possibly because there can be felt a kind of fear of seeming cheap when doing so – ladies more so then men, from what I’ve seen and been able to put together from stories from both genders.

Oh, and flutzlipper, I loved your post most, not taking away that the other ones are interesting too. But I mean yours is around where I’m trying to go with all the above.

I wonder if the story challenges us to be more open-minded, communicative and forgiving. You all think?

But shouldn’t that decision be his? That’s where she was selfish. She couldn’t read his mind. And he’d stuck in there with her THIS LONG (to prove that he was willing to go the distance with her). She chose for herself…because SHE wouldn’t be happy, but that’s what is in the end, and she has every right to in that case. Thing is that it can be read what she was intending to do, for him, which was really for her – to spare her future grief.

People do that type stuff all the time. It just takes others some getting used to, I'd suppose, speaking from a viewer's perspective, who's also experienced breaking up from both sides as well.