The ending had very subtle suggestions to me that karen wasn't entirely straight anymore. How do you guys feel about that?
I, being a huge hepburn fan, didn't really like seeing this transformation at the end. It's so subtle, one can decide either way as to karen's orientation at the end. She was obviously in love with Garner throughout most of the movie, so this doesn't make much sense to me.
What is your interpretation and how do you feel about it?
I think Audrey Hepburn's character was still supposed to be straight. I believe that the idea was that she loved her friend with all her heart platonically and that is was so unconditional that she chose not to judge her friend negatively like everyone else did. She refused to acknowledge everyone else at the funeral because she was standing up for her best friend who's love was beautiful no matter what form it was. Some people do not understand that you do not have to be ashamed of loving a gay person of the same sex. It does not make you gay too. If anything, it makes you an amazingly tolerant person and a true humanitarian.
shareI feel Karen was straight, which she had always been. I also feel she loved Martha as a girlfriend. I have very strong bonds with my girlfriends but I would have noticed if they never showed any interest in any guy. That is something girlfriends talk about.
I thought this was a beautifully made movie. The acting all around was impeccable. Shirley MacLaine was great and I have never been a fan of hers.
It makes you realize that love is love and no one should be judged.
right. so ... i've read all the comments this far. but i've never heard anybidy discussing a couple of things. audrey's character had been engaged with garner's for two years. she was rather hesitant to get married for a women who we supose, was in love. i'm not saying the character was gay, but still ... think about it. and there's this one more thing. in the beginning of the movie the martha and karen were talking about random stuff. they get to talk about the time they met, when they were young, bout the first time martha had ever seen karen. she said that when she saw her, she thought to herself "what a pretty girl". i'm just tryin to say that karen did kinda know, before martha told her. even during the talk they had, when martha revealed that she was gay, karen asked her "why are you telling me this?". had she not known before, she wouldn't have asked smth like this.
opinions anybody?
I think Karen was putting most of her energy into establishing the school; she would have been expected to put it on the back burner when she married, especially once she started a family. Note also that she wanted to start a family right away, as though to make up for lost time. It would have been the most natural thing in the world to marry sooner and wait to start a family; she sort of reversed the order.
I was born in 1954; my parents had been engaged for two years and I, their firstborn, came along (by intention) more than two years after they married. This wasn't unusual for those times (the early 60s weren't much different than the mid-50s); Karen's courtship isn't the least "unnatural," if you'll allow me a little joke.
I think "Why are you telling me this?" is a natural and probably rhetorical response upon hearing something you really don't want to know. I don't think Karen knew about Martha's feelings for her, especially since Martha took pains to even hide them from herself. Such a sad story.
I started watching this movie. It was building and there was a hint that it could have gone in the right direction. Like a big MONSTER jumping out. But ...WTF? The big monster was in the closet? Lesbians? That's IT? Jesus, I'm gonna go to the MONSTER channel and watch something decent.
Kinda Hitchcockian until it rather fizzled out.
as being freed, which was why Shirley MacLaine's character killed herself IMO, so Karen could be free. Notice she killed herself right after Karen suggested they go somewhere else to start over. Karen wouldn't leave her friend, but Martha knew that wherever they went, the taint of scandal would follow - it would always be a shadow over their lives as long as they stayed together. But Karen on her own could truly start her life over.
shareYes, I also think Martha's was an act of self-loathing and self-sacrifice, plus I think she was exhausted and at her wits' end. She just couldn't cope anymore. Her distress always makes me weepy.
shareI've been a fan of this film for ages. I think Brennan-8 has the correct interpretation. But aside from a desire to set Karen free, I think that Martha could not accept the truth about her own sexuality.
Karen was not a lesbian; there is absolutely no reason to suppose that. But I have the feeling Martha *always* sort of knew that her feelings for Karen were probably a little more than just as a friend. That's much easier for women to cover up than it would be for a man. I don't think she was happy with what she knew down deep about herself, and I suspect she denied to herself the nature of her feelings as long as she could. That brat's lie and the events that followed created such a strain on her that she opened up to Karen. Some secrets are very hard to keep.
As for Karen, I think she lost respect for Joe when he wanted to move far enough away so that no one would know them. She felt (rightly) that none of them should have to run away, because none of them had done anything wrong.
She didn't want a man like that to share her life with.
God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety
As for Karen, I think she lost respect for Joe when he wanted to move far enough away so that no one would employ them; she was ready to go. She felt (rightly) that none of them should have to run away, because none of them had done anything wrong. She didn't want a man like that to share her life with.
A two-year engagement wasn't that unusual in those days, especially for a teacher about to marry a doctor. She's trying to make the school successful, he's establishing a practice and both of those things take time.
I was a schoolchild in the era of this film and I remember very strongly that teachers were expected to go on maternity leave in their third month. Many didn't return from that until the child were in school. Karen therefore didn't want this to happen before she was ready for it to happen. In an era before birth control, she did this the best way she could.
As for whether she was actually a lesbian, I think the film ends ambiguously because it could. I haven't read the text of the play, but others on this board have led me to believe that Karen is heterosexual. Her distress at Martha's mental state is normal for a long-term friend who might be thinking "Oh, God; I didn't see this coming."
The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.
[deleted]
Martha, Martha, Martha!
Yes, it was certainly Shirley MacLaine's character who was madly in love here, but even though Audrey Hepburn's character delivered all the right lines about being committed to Dr. Joe, I couldn't help but notice she had much better chemistry with Shirley than with James Garner. It is true that women often form much stronger bonds with each other than with men, but I'm still not convinced that Karen's feelings for Martha were strictly platonic. Of course, the era would have kept her from speaking of those feelings, much less acting upon them.
I'm amazed that Martha was as open as she was, but as you would expect from a film of this era, she paid the typical price for it at the end. No good lesbian went unpunished!
Karen's orientation is definitely up for debate. I was questioning whether she was still straight. I think she definitely could have easily been in love with Martha. Go, Hepburn, for choosing such an awesome role!
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6264/052311.gif
I honestly think the Bible is flawed because it says people would go to hell if they choose to be gay.
Ambiguous, and OUTSTANDING for 1961.
Audrey Hepburn is the Queen of the World!
I personally thought Audrey's character was straight and never even thought about the possibility of being with Martha. I truly felt she loved Martha as a best friend and would do anything for her, Ex. her asking her to go away with her. For Audrey's character to do that knowing that Martha loves her show's true friendship.
However one would wonder if Audrey's character find later that she indeed loved Martha.
My mom was the one that told me "no, Audrey's character loved her, she accepted it, she was IN LOVE." I said "wow, mom. You really think so? i didn't get that.." She said "yes! how can u miss that??" I thought that was interesting for my mom to see cuz she's super black/white christian, but she loved the movie.
I really love this movie cause its so subtle. It doesnt end in a bow-tie, its open for interpretation. I'm so proud Audrey did this film, if i met her i would tell her my most proud movie she did was The Children's Hour and thanks for taking the risk, due to the times.
there are different ways to love different people. she loved her fiance of coruse but she loved martha in another way which mattered to her so much when she lost her. so karen doesn't have to be gay, she just had to have loved martha like a sister at the very least
sharehi
I just saw this movie last night. Amazing Both actress' were great
I too was wondering about Karen's orientation in the end... I think she was straight...but maybe not
Hugs
>The ending had very subtle suggestions to me that karen wasn't entirely straight anymore
Care to explain? Homosexuality doesn't work like that. You're straight, bi, or gay (among other things). i didn't see anything in this movie to suggest karen was anything but straight. yes, martha was her best friend and co worker but that doesn't mean it was anything more than that.