MovieChat Forums > Det sjunde inseglet (1958) Discussion > What do Atheists think?

What do Atheists think?

posted 18 years ago by Voice-in-the-Machine
136 replies | jump to latest

I thought this movie was interesting and very well done, but a lot of people talk about how moved they felt after it, or how introspective it made them feel. In honesty, I didn't really feel anything while watching this, nor did it make me think about death any differently that I currently do about death. My guess for this would be that I am not religious, nor have I even been, and I have never seriously entertained the idea of an afterlife, whereas this movie is centered on a very personal battle of a man questioning his faith and his views of death.

So do people find that this is a movie that appeals most readily to those that do wrestle with the idea of religion and death? Or are there other patent non-believers that were moved by this film?

[–] mikpii 17 years ago

I'm an atheist and I liked this movie when I watched it last spring, but it didn't have any dramatic impact on me, probably because I've done my soulsearching regarding religion.

[–] hec55rod 17 years ago

I never really give it too much thought, but I suppose I would fall under the agnostic category. In any case, I love the movie. I have for a while. I think I feel a certain connection with the themes touched upon simply because when I watched it the first time, I was very young, maybe 15. I was at the age when religion (catholic for me) was still a palpable reality for me. I mean, I hadn't come to any confirmed way of thinking about these matters. I could relate to the knight's plight but still sense that his squire had some good notions too. Anyway, here I am years later, and I still love the movie. I have different reasons perhaps, but the one thing that remains the same is the need for validation. To be sure, there is a lot about God and Death and so on, but the central theme that I can make out is one of validation. If you leave apart the whole does-god-exist angle this movie is essentially about Antonius wanting/needing attestation of his worth. I didn't think it was just about having something after death but about having something during life. It seemed he felt he wasted a lot of time and effort (emotional or otherwise) on fighting a "good" fight, that didn't really accomplish anything, so he sought out a deed, an action that would confirm his worth in life. For me, wanting to save the traveling family was this act. So ultimately, I'd say that an atheist could very well like this movie as it isn't just about religion.

[–] ynotdave 17 years ago

Atheist here (meaning I lack a belief in god) and no I wasn't moved at all by the movie but I did enjoy watching it and loved the Jons character the most. I read some really good reviews the past couple days so maybe I got my expectations up too much. Or maybe its because there was just nothing in this movie that I don't already think about and ponder on every day. I guess its nice to see your thoughts in a movie though. Anyways, I can see how it would be considered a classic, especially given the era it was released in.

[–] somethingfunny9 17 years ago

I don't think the film ruled out the existence of God, but seemed to confirm it at the end. This surprised me because I had heard so much said about it expressing the opposite. After the witch burns, the squire says to look in her eyes because she is afraid and sees nothingness. That sets up the second-to-last scene, where Jons' housemaid (?), who is set up as a sort of innocent over the whole film, sees death and smiles in ecstasy before uttering Jesus' final words: It is finished. It would seem her ecstasy comes from seeing the afterlife to me. Maybe not.

[–] Elori 17 years ago

This is an absolutely fantastic film, a modern masterpiece 50 years ago, yet a kind of film that is not made any more, and a work of genius. The character of Antonius is wonderfully appealing, and the wry remarks of Jöns are black humor at its best and also some of the most piercing notions about life and the world ever given on film. The themes and discussions portrayed by the film are actually very atheistic, and the movie portrays many of the ills and evils of religion as well existential, symbolistic ideas and thoughts that have lead to the prevalence of atheism as a popular modern view on religion. God, Death, and Man - even as the movie shows, two of these are very real, while the third one is nonexistent. Of the two, one is troubled by the other, which is alien, terrifying and fearfully inevitable and precise. So, as an atheist, I think this movie is very important, and a very keen look into the dilemmas of the modern day.

[–] scatterheart 17 years ago

I'm an atheist, I found this film to be moving. I mean, it wasn't HARROWING or anything watching it, but it was definitely melancholy. The movie wasn't about a man struggling with the DEVIL or with GOD, but with the uncertainty of either. One of the most intense scenes for me was when Block was questioning the "witch" on the stake. You could see the desperation in his eyes. He was so desperate to believe, but all he saw was nothing.

For me, what was wonderful about this film is that while it was about "religion," it was firmly rooted in humanity. No divine entity, God or Devil, ultimately came down to rescue the characters from their uncertainty. (Well, there was Death, but I don't think he was meant to be a divine character.)

[–] Stellato21 17 years ago

I thought it was great

[–] baghoomian 17 years ago

Question is Would an Atheist care? Would a Nihilist of all...CARE? no, not likely. They would probably praise it for its acting, writing, imagery, and theme

[–] ryanfrls 17 years ago

I love this film. I believe in God, but I am not of any religion. I have struggled greatly with Christianity. I go to a Lutheran high school, reaching a whole lot of inner conflict. But going on, the main thing I like about the film is the fact that it portrays the world as an overall dark and dreadful place, where God seems to be a pipe dream, and that is the way I see it, overall. However, it also shows there is hope, and as small as it may seem, it is also great and glorious, for Mary, Joseph, and their baby are still alive, people who do not dwell in the ideas of a forlorn fate that will crush them, but are happy, loving, kind, peaceful, entertain people, and they LIVE.People like them living shows there is still hope in the world, and people still live that are like that. Some Christian and some Atheist, and some from other religions. It is this I find most beautiful about the film, how hope survives through a dark grim hell that of which is the world, and that is how I see the word today.

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[–] kstamey4 17 years ago

In response to the original poster, I'm an atheist and I was deeply moved by this film. I regard the existential and religious underpinnings of the film to be incidental; I was moved mainly by the beautiful imagery and poetic treatment of the human condition. This is off-subject, but my two favorite characters were 1) The Squire & 2) Death.

[–] DrFuManchu06 17 years ago

Lifeling Athiest here,
loved the movie.

[–] saint_of_killers987 17 years ago

catholic turned athiest and i thought it was great. really good capture of a man struggling with faith and death.

"What a type you must consort with, that you not fear beating for such an insult"

[–] pgc6655 16 years ago

I'm an atheist who was moved by this film. It's fascinating to me how most European countries moved from being very religious to very secular. I imagine in its day it was quite provocative and perhaps an important step in the de-churching of Europe, which I believe began in France (Sartre's atheism etc.) and Scandinavia before anywhere else. I assume that Bergman was part of making it ok to doubt -- ok to admit it -- and he was part of removing the stigma of being an atheist.

I live in the Deep South in America, in a place that is STILL very religious, and so it's a subject I think about all the time. How can superstition continue to hold on in this day and age, after it's been questioned and rejected by so many? Will it change here as well? What things must happen for religion to lose its grip here -- and similarly, what must occur for Islam to weaken its hold over many people in the Middle East?

I don't know how religious Sweden was in 1956, or how many people still believed in God, but I venture to guess that a high percentage of them at least believed. Now, I believe the percentage is very low. A quick search I made turned up a 2007 study of teenagers in Cornwall which showed that only 22% believed in God. I bet it was 90% of more in 1956 and high as well in Sweden, so Bergman's film would have been much more provocative and exciting (or upsetting) at that time, but it's still a very fascinating phenomenon -- the throwing off of superstition in Western Europe.

[–] adolphe-artin 8 years ago

I don't know how religious Sweden was in 1956, or how many people still believed in God, but I venture to guess that a high percentage of them at least believed. Now, I believe the percentage is very low. A quick search I made turned up a 2007 study of teenagers in Cornwall which showed that only 22% believed in God. I bet it was 90% of more in 1956 and high as well in Sweden, so Bergman's film would have been much more provocative and exciting (or upsetting) at that time, but it's still a very fascinating phenomenon -- the throwing off of superstition in Western Europe.

What you possibly aren't aware of is that superstition is still alive and well in Western Europe: people are merely less Christian. But most are still spiritual. Today they merely believe in astrology, pyramids, numerology, scientology, healing crystals, shamanism, druidism, the Norse gods, you name it: all sorts of silly new age superstitions.

It's really quite fascinating, the things people believe in nowadays, just to fill their spiritual void. But if you ask me, we were bettter off with classic Christianity, Catholic or otherwise...

[–] JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies 16 years ago

I just hated the film . . . not sure if it had anything to do with my atheism, though. I think it had more to do with (1) not caring one bit about the characters and (2) feeling that Bergman could not manage to create or tell an interesting story. So whether you read it as a "character portrait" (or a series of them) or as something more plot-oriented, I thought it failed on both accounts.

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[–] Expresso79 16 years ago

The movie isn't about christianity or god. It's about how people percieve death and the afterlife.
One of the most important characters is Björnstrand the squire. As an agnostic i found him as the character i could relate the most.

As i said i'm an agnostic... but being an atheist or agnostic doesn't mean that you KNOW about death. No one knows what happens after death. That's exactly why i stay away from religions.
An atheist who says that he knows about the afterlife is just as naive as the the believer of any religion who thinks that he'll go to heaven or hell.