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Does Everyone Honestly Think The Brides Stayed Virgins?

posted 16 years ago by richard.fuller1
45 replies | jump to latest

I have been reading over a few threads here and I am really confused.

Do alot of people honestly think all the brides and the brothers did is skip thru the fields and pick flowers and watch the animals, like a Disney cartoon?

Is it all really, if the movie don't show it, then it didn't happen?

I thought the suggestiveness pretty well covered the possibilities of more than hand-holding taking place, emphasis on possibilities.

There weren't drunken orgies, but you don't have to have a drunken orgy to produce a child, so when each bride exclaimed 'mine!' toward the end, it meant they had at their disposal, at least, what they needed to produce such a child.

Yes, they made this declaration to put the brakes on the lynching, they didnt want to see any harm come to the brothers, but it also heavily implied that more than flirtatious giggling was going on.

Even today, if you openly asked a girl if she had sex with a guy, you run the risk that she would be offended at such a suggestion.

Did these brides seem offended by such a query, from a minister, each in front of her own father? Didn't seem that way to me.

Other posts here seem to all but imply that pre-marital sex wasn't heard of in the 1950s (I've said it once and I'll say it again; you got to wonder who is being more naive in such a situation).

And just because the possibility of pre-marital sex may have taken place between Dorcas and Benjamin, that doesn't mean all the brothers and brides followed suit.

[–] brad_filippone 9 years ago

Joining this thread seven years after the original post.

I was chuckling while reading through all the responses. Here we have a movie in which characters break into song in perfect harmony, and have a perfectly synchronized dance number while raising a barn--and yet someone expects realism when it comes to the topic of sex.

As has been stated, the movie was made in the 1950's. The movie shows us a world of make-believe in which young women behave like perfect ladies, in the traditional sense. That is, no sex before the wedding. We are not talking about a gritty realistic movie in which the temptation of sex becomes too strong to resist. The movie is pure fantasy, and the girls are "good girls" and behave exactly as girls are supposed to. You may as well say that Snow White was having sex with the dwarfs (a children's story, I know, but Snow White is also a traditional young lady when it comes to sex).

Furthermore, on the topic of whether or not one woman with a baby could be a good chaperone to six couples--if this movie depicted reality, probably not. But we know what she is like, since we have seen her from the beginning of the movie ("as sassy as can be!" as described in the first song). If I were one of those brothers, I wouldn't dare try to defy my sister-in-law, or I know I'd be facing dire, possibly painful, consequences!

Brad

[–] richard.fuller1 9 years ago

brad_filipone: "I was chuckling while reading through all the responses. Here we have a movie in which characters break into song in perfect harmony, and have a perfectly synchronized dance number while raising a barn--and yet someone expects realism when it comes to the topic of sex.

As has been stated, the movie was made in the 1950's. The movie shows us a world of make-believe in which young women behave like perfect ladies, in the traditional sense. That is, no sex before the wedding. We are not talking about a gritty realistic movie in which the temptation of sex becomes too strong to resist. The movie is pure fantasy, and the girls are "good girls" and behave exactly as girls are supposed to. You may as well say that Snow White was having sex with the dwarfs (a children's story, I know, but Snow White is also a traditional young lady when it comes to sex).

Furthermore, on the topic of whether or not one woman with a baby could be a good chaperone to six couples--if this movie depicted reality, probably not. But we know what she is like, since we have seen her from the beginning of the movie ("as sassy as can be!" as described in the first song). If I were one of those brothers, I wouldn't dare try to defy my sister-in-law, or I know I'd be facing dire, possibly painful, consequences!
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First, remove the songs to focus on the story and subject matter involved

Now from there, Millie is pregnant and does indeed have a baby. While she is recuperating, she would hardly be in any position to 'chaperone' six brothers and six young females all the time.

One of the brides even says to Dorcas (Julie Newmeyer, later Newmar) "what were you doing, sneaking out to the wood pile?"

I suppose that was more an insulting accusation and not a shocking revelation.

But the allusion is while Millie is pregnant and taking it easy, two or three brides can be assisting with household chores, but what exactly are the other three brides up to?

We have them singing about spring, . . . . . when a young man's thoughts turn to . . . . baby chicks?

And we also get this 'springtime' moment all in the span of one song, the same song in which Millie's baby is born, so that was a nine month span there alone.

They do not have internet, cell phones, radios, wifi, ipod, ipad, dvds, reality tv or anything else we have today, as well as they are confined to this mountain cabin and surrounding area with very handsome young mountain men. They are going to pick flowers and play musical chairs for nine months?

And these were also hardly like Snow White, as the dwarves did not abduct her and bring her to the cabin. That's the one bit I thought was strange, as it was all supposed to be resolved when the brides pelted them with snowballs with rocks in them and poured the water on them.

But we are 'shown' they are 'good girls who don't have sex' simply because they aren't shown having sex? We don't see them eating a healthy breakfast and dinner every day, do we think they massively starved? We don't see them going to the outhouse. Were they constipated?

I don't recall a scene where we see them changing their outfits, as the brothers are wearing different shirts when Hannah is born. I wonder how they did that? Hmm.

We didn't see Adam and Millie having sex to create Hannah, but we did get them in the bedroom together. So sex can only be achieved in the bedroom? We know that isn't true.

But because these were young couples of the '50s (1850s or 1950s) we must belive they adopted a strict and firm proper regimen of Saturday Night Live's Church Lady and lived by it, and promiscuous sex would never be encountered until the baby boomers 'discovered' it.

[–] jimprideaux2 8 years ago

I think it was more likely that they got together and broke out into song and dance numbers like they did at the barn raising. That's a lot more entertaining!

[–] richard.fuller1 8 years ago

Oh, I'm sure they were 'singing and dancing' as couples, off on their own.

Note from the moment Millie announced she was having a baby, the brides sang in the loft, sang of the months, then it was spring, off each bride journeyed with a brother, ending out in the field, then the announcement Millie was having her baby.

I seriously doubt they did nothing but sang for nine months.

[–] jimprideaux2 8 years ago

I saw nothing in the movie to indicate any of the couples intended on having sexual relations prior to marriage.

[–] richard.fuller1 8 years ago

jimprideaux2: "I saw nothing in the movie to indicate any of the couples intended on having sexual relations prior to marriage."
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Adam and Millie were never shown in the bed together having sex either, so where did Hannah come from?

No one was ever shown entering an outhouse, so did that mean they never relieved themselves?

For the entire span of the songs sung when Millie was pregnant (which hardly lasted for nine months in our time) no one was shown eating, does that mean they didn't eat for nine months?

I guess all the brides and brothers did then was chaperoned each other and fed the livestock. No tv, no wifi, no I-pod.

Yea, they just flirted. Innocently flirted.

[–] jimprideaux2 8 years ago

Adam and Millie were never shown in the bed together having sex either, so where did Hannah come from?

Pointless comment. My contention was that none of the couples intended on having sex prior to marriage. As Adam married Millie on the day they met it would have been impossible for them to have premarital sexual relations. As to where Hanna came from I think we all know the answer to that.

No one was ever shown entering an outhouse, so did that mean they never relieved themselves?

For the entire span of the songs sung when Millie was pregnant (which hardly lasted for nine months in our time) no one was shown eating, does that mean they didn't eat for nine months?

The actions of literary figures, and we are talking about literary figures, can be deduced from how they are portrayed by the author. Here the filmmaker portrays a group of human lumberjacks/farmers/settlers, men and women. As such we can assume, even if it done off screen, that the eat, sleep and crap. We can also assume that they perform the activities associated with their existence in the setting: feeding livestock, chopping wood, carrying water, mending tools, doing laundry, etc.

I guess all the brides and brothers did then was chaperoned each other and fed the livestock. No tv, no wifi, no I-pod.

Yea, they just flirted. Innocently flirted.

You can guess all you want. What you can't do is offer any evidence that any of the couples (unmarried) had or intended to have sexual relations prior to marriage.

[–] richard.fuller1 8 years ago

jimprideaux2: "You can guess all you want. What you can't do is offer any evidence that any of the couples (unmarried) had or intended to have sexual relations prior to marriage."
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Same could be said for you. You can't offer any that they didn't. Millie was pregnant and hardly capable of running around after a dozen young people to keep them from fooling around "just because it wasn't shown."

Just another deluded idea that pre-marital sex was unheard of before the baby boomers in the sixties, which was far from the case.

[–] jimprideaux2 8 years ago

Just another deluded idea that pre-marital sex was unheard of before the baby boomers in the sixties, which was far from the case.

I never contended pre-marital sex was unheard of. It probably happened more often than people admit or nostalgically recall. However there were strong social and religious taboos against it. These taboos lessened after the advent of "the pill" and other effective birth control devices. However these taboos were strong in the mid 19th century (when the movie was set) up through the mid 20th century (when the movie was made). A good many couples remained chaste until after they were married.

Millie was pregnant and hardly capable of running around after a dozen young people to keep them from fooling around "just because it wasn't shown."

My contention that the couples did not engage in pre-marital is not based on Millie preventing them from doing so. My contention is that there is no evidence by the brothers or the girls actions to indicate they intended to have sex. In fact, I not sure there is any evidence they even thought about having sex. Absence of evidence to commit an act supports the contention that the act was not committed.

Of course this is in answer to your original question "Does Everyone Honestly Think The Brides Stayed Virgins?" Two things. I think Anyone should be substituted for Everyone -- you'll never get Everyone to agree on anything. Also did you really mean to say Brides? I don't think anyone expects a Bride to remain a virgin except under unusual circumstances. I assumed you were asking about the kidnapped girls prior to them being married.

Your original question had to do with specific literary characters. These characters are creations of the filmmaker and the filmmaker endows them with personalities, dreams, desires, values, etc. We can safely assume that the characters act accordingly even off screen or as their fictitious lives continue after the movie. It is safe to assume they continued to feed livestock and raise families as that is were the trajectory of the evidence pointed.

Regarding pre-marital sex, this is not something that can be assumed everyone did. Many did and many didn't. So what is it for these specific literary characters? Even in the 50's filmmakers could show indications: a couple embracing at dusk outside the barn then dissolving to the next scene where its morning and she is drowsily awakening on the hay stack while he is preoccupied feeding the horses or something. Well except for the kids who accompanied mom and dad to the movies everyone in the audience knows what happened.

There was nothing like that in this movie. Nor do I think it was the filmmakers intention to suggest it for any number of reasons good or bad. They are written to portray good hearted but somewhat naïve characters who sing and dance their way to romance (wholesome) and marriage. They would not think of having pre-marital sex. Again, they are fictional characters.

[–] richard.fuller1 8 years ago

jimpreideaux2: " a couple embracing at dusk outside the barn then dissolving to the next scene where its morning and she is drowsily awakening on the hay stack while he is preoccupied feeding the horses or something. Well except for the kids who accompanied mom and dad to the movies everyone in the audience knows what happened."
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LOL!

And singing in a field couldn't lead to the same obvious conclusions?

Saying 'brides' is just the easiest way to refer to the six women. I guess I have to name them individually for you?

I guess they did have chaperones. They had all those musicians accompanying them playing all that music while they sang.

[–] jimprideaux2 8 years ago

I guess they did have chaperones. They had all those musicians accompanying them playing all that music while they sang.

Now you're just being silly! Why are you hung up on chaperones anyway? I never the need for chaperones.

Saying 'brides' is just the easiest way to refer to the six women. I guess I have to name them individually for you?

Of course you don't. I said as much in my post. However, inaccurate use of terms leads to sloppy thinking.

And singing in a field couldn't lead to the same obvious conclusions?

It's what they are singing about. I went back and viewed some of songs on YouTube to see if I was missing something. Couldn't find anything suggestive. Even the Lonesome Polecat sang that he yearned for some one to give vows to.

Of course I really didn't think I would find anything suggestive. The censors were all over this one beginning with the title. Nothing in the dialogue, songs, or actions was going to suggest that the "Brides" were going to lose their virginity prior to the wedding. The censors and the studio would make certain of it. Like it or not, fair or unfair, realistic or unrealistic, that's the way the filmmaker made these characters, and the character of the characters. These characters' character have virgin-till-married written all over them.

Of course the movie could be remade today. The characters could be written differently. Act, sing, dance and talk in ways suggesting each partner didn't care to wait till Spring. Nothing overt need be shown. At the end of the movie everyone knows what happened.

Such a move might be better or worse than the original. It would all depend on the writing, singing, dancing and all the other attributes of a fine movie.