Alternate Ending


Does anybody know about an alternate ending for this movie? Is it avaliable? If so, where?

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I saw this movie for the first time ca. 1957 or so and I also remember an alternate ending. In that version, Major Stovall (Dean Jagger) takes the cup he found in the curio shop and places it back on the mantle of the "O" Club. I preferred this ending, though the film is still a masterpiece. Would that more of the planes and bases had been preserved. If you ever get a chance, check out a book titled "One Last Look."


RH

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I do not own a copy of the movie on tape or DVD, but I, too, recall seeing the ending broadcast in past years where Harvey Stovall returns to the officer's club and replaces the Toby mug on the mantlepiece. It occurs to me that what we may be seeing these days is the broadcaster's rude perogative to edit films for length to fit into a particular timeslot and that they may be leaving out this scene in the interest of jamming the movie into a shorter time period to make room for commercials.

I know that the Steve McQueen movie "The War Lover" (Columbia Pictures, 1961) had extensive footage of taxiing B-17s with a variety of nose art moving to take-off positions that is almost always dumped to shorten up the film for broadcast...

Mark Sublette
Falls Church, Virginia

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I bought "Twelve O'Clock High" on DVD a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, it too has the truncated ending. I wonder if the longer ending is available somewhere.

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I have the book, "One Last Look" and it is a good one. Does anyone know of a source for the 1983 NBC documentary, "All the Brave Young Men" if it even exists. It is about the best news documentary I can recall that dealt with the Eighth Air Force during WWII.

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Hi,

The actual name of the documentary, hosted by lloyd dobbins I believe, was "All the Fine Young Men." I taped it at the time, unfortunately in SLP. Youy are right by the way, it was outstanding. I also wondered why lloyd dobbins disappeared without a trace. I guess he was too good.

Steve Trynosky

Correction, I just looked up my copy. It was called "All the Fine Young Men" however, it was hosted by John Palmer, not Lloyd Dobbins. The Copyright date is 1984 and it is listed as an "NBC News Presentation". The director was Darold Murray. I'd like to add my two cents on the Toby controversey, I too remember Harvey Stovall putting it back on the mantle. I suspect that this is where I wanted to see it put rather than how the movie actually ends. That folks is selective memory, sort of like thinking, after twenty plus years that it was lloyd dobbins hosting.

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I found that I had recorded a VHS copy of Twelve O' Clock High off of American Movie Classics in 1989 and in closely reviewing the ending, the film moves seamlessly from the final wartime scene where General Savage snaps out of his "mission" and lies down on a bunk to the one of Harvey Stovall in post-wartime civvies pondering his wartime experiences at the edge of the overgrown airfield with no evidence of his trip to the O Club to put the Toby back on the mantle. Yet I distinctly recall having seen the O Club ending myself in past years, so there MUST be two different edits of the conclusion out there.

Mark Sublette
Falls Church, Virginia

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I think you guys are all hallucinating! As far as I can tell, there is no alternate ending. Mark is correct that the film moves seemlessly, (a slow fade, in fact,) from the final wartime scene to the scene where Stovall rides away. Furthermore, if you look carefully, you can see the box with the toby in it still in the bicycle's front basket, so this is definately the ending Henry King planned on. Perhaps you are all remembering the book, also by Bartlett and Lay. In the book, Stovall does put the toby back on the mantle.

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You know. you may very well be right - perhaps it IS the original novel that I am remembering, rather than an actual viewing - I can imagine Harvey Stovall in the scene so perhaps I am confusing the book for the film. Thanks for pointing this out.

Mark*

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

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Hello elijahbailey.
I too vaguely recall Harvey Stovall, in the closing scene of the movie, placing the Toby Jug on the mantle shelf in the Officer's Club. My memory of it goes back to its first release in the UK about February 1950. I never saw that closing scene on any TV transmission, video tape, and it is not on the DVD either. However, there is two running times for this movie. One version is 127 minutes, the other is 133 minutes. I guess it would be on the longer version.

As for the the Toby Jug; if in reality taking it back to that abandoned and deserted airfield had taken place, it would no doubt have been swiped by someone as a souvenir. Those old airfields looked rather run down and badly neglected in the postwar years, unless of course they went back under Royal Air Force oparational use. Some old 8th Air Force veteran would have done better to take the Toby Jug back home to the US and shown up with it at a World War Two 8th Air Force veterans reunion!
All the best and happy days. smiley-39.

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The NTSC release runs the 24 frame per second original using a process called "3:2 pulldown" resulting in a 30fps version at the same running time, 133 minutes.

The PAL release runs the 24fps original slightly quicker at 25 fps, resulting in a 127 minute version.

Both NTSC & PAL versions are of the same cut.



"The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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I absolutely remember Col. Stovall placing the Toby mug back on the mantle in his 1949 visit to the air base, and I've never read the novel. This is probably my favorite movie, and I held off buying a DVD until a few weeks ago in hopes of purchasing the digitally restored version I once saw on TCM or AMC (before they went to the dark side - commercials.) Anyway, there is a movie version out there somewhere with Stovall leaving the mug behind. When I saw the ending on my Fox War Classics DVD, I immediately turned to my wife and told her the alternate ending. Then I found this posting.

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The alternate ending sounds like something I remember once. I also read that when originally filmed Savage dies in combat and that ending was dumped by the director.

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All versions I've ever seen, on TV, videotape, and even on the old Fleet circuit as a Navy brat in Taiwan in the mid-60's included the ending where Stovall returns the Toby mug to the O-Club on the base. I can't imagine the movie without it. That would sort of be like Citizen Kane without Rosebud going into the furnace. . .

Those of you of a literary bent may find a particular Len Deighton novel of interest, called BOMBER. It focuses on an RAF night bombing raid gone terribly, terribly wrong, and is viewed from just about every imaginable perspective: gorund crew, aircrew, citizens in the soon-to-be-bombed town, Luftwaffe night fighter pilots, German fire/rescue personnel, you name it. . . A stunning indictment of war, but not preachy, some marvelous plot devices that play on coincidence and dumb luck, phenomenal historical, cultural and technical detail, beautifully drawn characters. There's even a nod to the aforementioned Rosebud. Deighton's normal work is the spy thriller, but this is arguably his most mature and best novel in my 'umble opinion.

Hard to find anywhere, bur cruise your used paperback shops. And Most libraries will probably carry it. A good companion piece to Twelve O'Clock High. Why it was never made into a film is beyond me.

-Focke Wulf
Houston, Texas

"I'm not from here, I just live here."
-James Mc Murtry


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I'm glad other people are sure they have seen the Toby on the mantle version. I was certain that I had actually seen it telecast in my youth. My dad was big on war movies on Saturday afternoon!

As for "Bomber", you are quite correct - it is an absolutely riveting tale. I can even remember exactly where and when I bought my copy!

Mark*

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

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"Oh yes!! "BOMBER'" is a classic!! Hope a film version will be shot sometime soon!! Would be awesome!!

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Whether or not there was an "alternate ending", I can't say. True, the ending of the book's prologue had Stovall placing the Toby back on the mantle. But the ending as seen in all the cuts I've viewed including the DVD was put into the script at the direction of Darryl F. Zanuck in February, 1949 to book-end the flashback. There's now a great book, "The 12 O'Clock High Logbook", impeccably researched from hundreds of sources including 20-Cent Fox files, that tells the story of book, film, and series.

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You can buy a replica of the Toby mug at 918thpx.com. I've no interest, financial or otherwise, in this sale.

I understand from IMDB that the original was indeed brought home by one of the men from the actual unit, but swiped in the 1990s.

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I first saw this movie about 1950, have seen it on TV many times, have owned it on VHS and on DVD...yet, I have no memory of ever having seen an ending where Stovall placed the tobey back on the mantle of the OC. It always ends with Stoval leaving the abandoned runway, getting on his bike and riding away.

Sometimes the movie we see in our mind as we read a book is far more intense than the movie we see on the screen.

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I don't believe such an "alternate ending" exists, unless the scene was filmed, but ended up on the cutting room floor. I've never heard of (or seen) any release print of "Twelve O'Clock High" that has the scene in it. I agree with a previous poster -- some folks are mixing the novel and the movie up in their heads.

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Back in the day when I was a young newly minted Naval Flight Officer, the Navy Leadership Development course we were all required to take (at least in the brown shoe Navy) had the ending with Harvey putting the mug back in the O Club. I have never read the book and I'd likee to see a remake of the movie.

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But where would the Officer's Club be at the end of the movie? It looked like the whole base had worn down to nothing by that time.

Like I said earlier, I've seen this movie numerous times ever since it came out and have never seen any ending where Stovall returned the mug to any O.C.

Oh, well, it is still one hell of a movie.

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And yet, some posters here have only seen the movie, never read the novel, and they STILL recall the mystery scene...

Mark*

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The box was still on the bicycle and he didn't have the mug when he first went onto the base.

If the ending was altered, then so was the beginning.

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Until I read this message board, I too thought there was a scene missing where Harvey puts the mug back on the mantle, but thought I must be going crazy.

I do not recall having viewed a version for many years, maybe since the 70's, that included it. I just watched it on AMC, and sure enough, it ain't there as usual.

As noted, the flashback moves seamlessly into present time with the parcel still on the bicycle. I hope some of the more knowledgeable posters here can clear this up.

Hopefully future releases of this great film will restore the scene, if it is indeed missing. Maybe we will have to wait for the director's cut...


By the way, when I was in England some 20 years ago, I was able to convince my hosts to take me by some former air base locations. It now amazes me how the film makers managed to capture the look of the English country side at a filming location in Florida.

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As this is my favorite movie of all time (due to an intense respect for the B-17 pilots and crews of WWII)I would like to weigh in on the alternate ending discussion, mostly with questions--1. if there is an alternate ending, there is no reason to assume that the alternate ending doesn't begin deeper into the movie. In other words, the argument that there is no alternate ending because of the seamless fade to him walking back to his bike may not hold water if they did the cut before he grabs his coat and walks out of the hut. 2. If those of you that did not read the book have a memory of putting the Toby back on the shelf, could it be that the scene took place in some other part of the movie and has been cut?

I am afraid that this is going to be a mystery forever. Like King Arthur who may or may not be based on a true person, we may never know for sure what the truth is.....until someone finds a copy with the alternate ending in....which I doubt will ever happen.


"We're going to need a bigger boat..."

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I've never read the book, and I've seen the movie quite a few times. (A dozen, perhaps; it's still shown - as it should be - in USAF Professional Military Education classes.)

I absolutely KNOW this scene was shot, and I've seen it. It is one of the most meaningful parts of the movie to me. The symbology is so powerful: the mug faces into the room, and the viewer understands that it's OUR mission now.

In my mind's eye, it's there still.

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I saw this film in the theatre when it was released, and the mug shot was in it.


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Fascinating discussion, as the return of the Robin Hood toby by Stovall to the postwar abandoned -- and by inference, somewhat haunted -- Archbury officer's club is a very powerful and symbolic image from the novel's prologue.

I always wondered why the scene wasn't in the film, except to realize that were the scene played in real life, it would be much more likely for the Stovall character to keep the toby, to "rescue it," as it were, from the obscurity of the shopkeeper's window and retain it as a prized and iconic memento from Stovall's -- and the 918th Bomb Group's -- past.

I'm sure the book "The 12 O'Clock High Logbook: The Unofficial History of the Novel, Motion Picture, and TV Series," by Allan T. Duffin and Paul Matheis discusses this dichotomy between the "missing" scene so many posters remember as being in the film and it's absence (as remembered by many others,myself included).

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