MovieChat Forums > Twelve O'Clock High (1950) Discussion > Simply the best war and leadership movie...

Simply the best war and leadership movie ever, period.

posted 17 years ago by meh130
21 replies | jump to latest

Damn, this is good. What is amazing, if you are an Air Force historical nut, is you will recognize the characters, to some extent, even if you don't know who they are based on.

This movie is timeless, because basic human characters do not change as generations change.

That is why this movie, to this day, 60 year later, still serves as a leadership tool.

My personal favorite scene is when Gen Savage is driving in to take over the 918th. He gets out of the staff car from one side of the car, referring to his driver by his first name, smokes a cigarette, then enters the car from the other side, and refers to the driver as "Sargeant". It is Savage putting on his game face. It is saying he is the same as Keith Davenport, but leadership requires a level of acting.

It also points out something I have seen in both the military and corporate worlds. People in leadership positions need to have a break sometimes. Davenport, and later Savage, need to be pulled from the direct leadership role. The Army really understands this, and is a model to be emulated.

This is just a great movie on so many levels. Believe me, with decades of experience working under both civilian and military leadership, there are many times I have longed for, no, begged for, a Gregory Peck to knock the doors down and establish himself as a leader in an organization.

This movie is simply the bomb, pun intended.

[–] tcolones-1 17 years ago

meh130 :

You will get an AMEN from TC on this fine post and I could not agree any nore with you... its my all time favorite film. Like you I am a veteran and the son of a WW II Combat Marine veteran..so I got to see this movie very early on in my life ( now just hitting the big 54) ! As a long time student of the Mighty Eighth and long time member of the Eighth AF Historical Society.. this film has been my all time favorite and I never tire of the moive and its message. Have you picked up the newly released DVD reissue of the moive.. it has many extras about the making of the film and historian Allan Duffin who has written and wonderful book on the making of the film and 1960's ABC-Tv series is featured in the documentary. His book is outstanding and worth adding to your collection. One of my many favorites in the film is the groups first briefing with Gen Savage........ the famed " YOUR ALREADY DEAD " speech ! Talk about letting them know a new sheriff is in charge !!! I just am greatful that this film was made and they did not try to alter history . Like you sometimes I wish we had meetings like this and got things done ASAP in my company ..without all the emails and bogus consultants who keep one guessing ! Great film and great acting by Mr Peck & company... a keeper for alltime. I think ever senior high school class should see this film ...they might learn something ! Thanks for your post..................... Amen Brother !!!!!!!!! I could talk about this movie 24/7 !

"Well it looks like I am chopping and no chips are flying " !!!!

Long Live " 12 O'Clock High " !!!!

Tom Colones
[email protected]

[–] marihef 17 years ago

This is one of the best films ever about the War...my late father was a B-17 pilot with the 8th..Dad wasnt a big fan of war movies, particularly air war movies, but he admitted TOCH related the 8th experience as close to the way it really was as any movie could.

[–] deeveed 17 years ago

We all know what a great movie this is. What I think it has is a great deal of
realism and psychological insight into war and those who have to fight in them. All along we get the concept of men doing their "duty" in situations where man and machine are a shot away from being blown out of the sky. To go into battle knowing that the statistics aren't with you is probably one of the most depressing things that can befall a soldier or airman yet the air arm kept flying sortie after sortie after sortie. You know I'd be curious to know how long did men like Savage and Davenport last in command under the circumstances? Couldn't be very long I gather. I'd think the psychological strain itself would kill someone emotionally as well as physically. Execs charts and folders probably were always "open and at the ready" if you ask me.

[–] Moncrest 17 years ago

No additional comment needed. I agree with the previous "posters" simply the best.!!!

[–] Neil_before_Zod 15 years ago

"No additional comment needed. I agree with the previous "posters" simply the best.!!!"

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I second that

[–] rfirment 15 years ago

It is still used to teach leadership today.

[–] JoeinFla 16 years ago

I agree that it is one of the best. When I was in the US Navy during the Cold War(77-83), I went to a leadership school when I was promoted to E-5. Imagine my surprise when our final project was to watch this fine movie, pausing at times to discuss the various styles of command and leadership that were used throughout the film. You would think that this film was made as a tool for leadership training! It was uncanny!

[–] GrinningDwarf 16 years ago

We watched and discussed the leadership aspects of this movie during crew leader training in the California Conservation Corps, as well.

*************************************
"Where's the rally point?!"
"Anywhere but here!!"

[–] rlippman-2 11 years ago

I watched this again last night, not having seen it since I was a little kid watching it with my father. Now, at age 50, having risen in the corporate legal world and worked under many partners and CEO's with military background, I found this movie fascinating. Of course, I also had to wonder about how much was drama vs. real life military history. Some of the things that take place, for instance the way the transfers and IG visit were handled, surely left out some important real world details.

I would love to see a DVD commentary on this film given by the leadership school professors that JoeinFla writes about. Boy, now that would be something worth watching!

Another movie recommendation with excellent insight into leadership and motivating men, watch "Master and Commander" with Russell Crowe.

_______

A wrench to the head changes everything.

[–] marilynnewman 10 years ago

I just watched it since 1951 on Amazon. I've loved this film since I saw it at 7 years old, I still remembered after 60 years, that the third plane in at the beginning crashed. I don't know how a film, can make you cry and smile at the same time, but it does.

As for leadership, I'm not sure the best way to get people to work for you is consider yourself dead. It seems to defeat the purpose of getting pride in your work.

It's sort of like the crazy people who beat themselves with whips, to show something to god, but like I told a friend, doesn't that just make him think you must like it?

[–] navdough 16 years ago

When I went through US Air Force Officer Training School back in 1996, we watched the film as part of a class on leadership. I believe they're still doing it in OTS classes today.

[–] deeveed 16 years ago

And I'd be real curious as to how they approach teaching using the film nowadays. Just wonder what they emphasize.

[–] baltizhar 14 years ago

my husband is getting his masters on strategic leadership and I am helping him with this paper. the assignment is to read "Be Know Do" a book about Army Leadership and also watch this movie. I am thrilled to read these posts, it is breathing life into this movie. this isn't just about leadership, its about history and most importantly, about men. brave men. the movie and all of you help memorialize the heroes that died in war, the impact of ALL those lives, and it touches me to see the posts from you brave veterans. the course apporach or what is asked of the student is to basically analyze the movie/book and state your point of view and thoughts on the material. in this case, one can argue that a stern leadership style may or may not a create successful organization. basically, you get to decide what qualities or traits are important in leaders and argue your case.

[–] SeisCinemaSeis 16 years ago

To each his own. I found this movie particularly boring. IMO It's highly overrated. I cannot see why it's praised so much, there are far better war movies shot before and after 12 O'Clock High. But then I am not a war-lovin' people. I guess this kind of movies aren't my cup of tea.

5/10

[–] deeveed 15 years ago

I don't know Les. Under the circumstances shown in the film, life for those airmen was anything but "boring" as you write from your chair. Savage could do you favor so you can empathize a bit with those men who got shot at and and oh btw blown up in one fell swoop ...;-)....

[–] fnj2002 14 years ago

There's one in every crowd. Hard to see Clionauta's post as anything but troll.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rwsmith29456 15 years ago

Absolutely, one of MY favorites, too.

[–] mm1-11 12 years ago

I would like to add that another good movie about leadership and character is "The Caine Mutiny". Though it demonstrates it in a very round about way of showing how leadership breaks down when people are not able to rise up to being true leaders but fool themselves into thinking that they are.