I thought this was better than The Searchers. - Stagecoach (1939) Discussion

[–] telegonus 20 years ago

In some ways I think that Stagecoach is superior to The Searchers, though I think that Wayne is better in the latter film, the performances are often, to put it mildly, variable. Overall, Stagecoach is a technical tour de force, with not a wasted shot or line of dialogue. It all comes together perfectly in the end. The Searchers is more "serious", but that doesn't make it better. It tends to ramble a lot, and the humor is for the most part dreadfully unfunny. They're both brilliant films, but in different ways.

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[–] nihilistdude2000 20 years ago

I agree. When I said the acting in the Searchers was atrocious, I should have made a point to exclude John Wayne from that comment. He was very good, as usual.

"Hey Neighbor, you got about one f ucking second to live buddy" - Frank Booth

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[–] joseph-johnston 19 years ago

I agree that the acting in "The Searchers" is of variable quality especially from Wayne & Hunter. Wayne is better in Stagecoach simply because there is less of him. He was, let us be honest, an actor of limited range.

Stagecoach is consistently well acted but of course a less ambitious film than Searchers.

I would place Stagecoach as the best western that I have seen but "The Searchers" is still a fine movie. Ford was such a classy director but not obsessed with directing actors.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] chrisludlam 18 years ago

It's a very close call,but Stagecoach,with it's fine characterizations,just wins by a nose!These are my two favourite Westerns,regardless!

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[–] TonyRo19 17 years ago

I think the pacing of The Searchers isn't that great. It's beautifully shot, the acting is pretty good, but it's all sort of hindered by seeming to take forever to get to the end. Then when they do find the girl, they leave her there. Then there's a wedding and the funniest fist fight in movie history. Then they go back for the big action scene and the rescue.

Stagecoach is a great story that doesn't take longer than necessary to tell. It has some great characters and equally beautiful camera work and scenery. I think John Wayne had better acting in Stagecoach and the action was more frequent and better in this flick.

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[–] Wakanohana 17 years ago

"The Searchers" has been dissected and over-analyzed to the point that it's tougher just to watch it and enjoy it for what it is.

"Stagecoach" is no lightweight film, it has just as much depth. But it's easier to simply watch it and enjoy the performances. Stagecoach has not a single wasted frame.

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[–] E_Mcgraw 17 years ago

Great post by all of you and i myself find Stagecoach better. It's just way more fun than the Searchers in my opinion.

Does anybody think that if Stagecoach could have been filmed in color with the look of the Searchers, then would it have moved the movie up another notch, which it is about as good as you can get aready, or does everybody just prefer the way it is.

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[–] Wakanohana 17 years ago

I don't mind at all that it's in black-and-white. But someone should do a video and audio remastering. (or whatever it is they do with old films to clean them up and improve the sound)

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[–] elm0catt 17 years ago

the 3-strip Technicolor cameras were too big,bulky,and hard to manage at the time "Stagecoach" was made in 1939 and never would have been trekked to the middle of nowhere.

Remember that this was the very first film shot in Monument Valley and in 1939 there weren't even roads down to get there.

By the time of "The Searchers" the Technicolor process and cameras were streamlined and much more user friendly and proper roads and some anemnities were now available in the Valley.

And YES a full out remaster and restoration is needed for "Stagecoach". PLEASE WB! PLEASE!!

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[–] theFoss 17 years ago

The Searchers is a fine film with some flaws, mostly, IMO, unnescessary characters, and pacing issues, especially with the insertion of the comedy set pieces, like the fight and the running gag with the sword. The color of The Searchers is breathtaking, but, lean, mean, and trim in the black and white shadows, Stagecoach is a film where there are no wasted shots, and very little fat on the story. The only scene that could be trimmed that doesn't develop character or advanced the story, is the song by Yakima, and even that sets up the plot point of the vaqueros stealing the fresh horse team. Even a throwaway shot, like that of Carridine's gambler, Hatfield, standing guard at the ferry, helps to show the character's humanity, as he covers the poor, burned, and murdered woman with his cape.

The Searchers could survive without the characters of the older niece (after all, the brother and sister-in-law killed with nephew, younger niece kidnapped, is already plenty of motivation for revenge), Harry Carey Jr., Ken Curtis, Patrick Wayne, the women in the cantina with the beans, and my personal un-favorite, Half-witted Mose...these losses would tighten up the narrative, and allow the superflous wedding and fight scenes, and the sword in the butt gag to be dispensed with, imo, to no great detriment.

In Stagecoach, the action scenes filled the screen, and color would have added little to the characters or composition...this is not as true for the deeper character study in The Searchers, where sharper focus on Wayne's Ethan and Hunter's Martin makes the tale...and spotlighting all the minor characters, without real development, just creates distractions.

Finally, to the poster who doesn't think much of Wayne as an actor, I recommend She Wore a Yellow Ribbon to him...Wayne gives, to my opinion, an oscar caliber performance in that film, an also near perfect Ford effort that only suffers from the slapstick brawl that was inserted near the ending.

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[–] id-entity 16 years ago

I prefer The Searchers overall but the editing in Stagecoach is phenomenal.

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[–] pgharett-676-553123 11 years ago

The Searchers maybe could survive without some of the characters you mention, but I don't believe it would be as good. I love those John Ford stock company actors like Carey, Curtis, Ward Bond, etc. It's hilarious the way Curtis delivers that line "I'll thank you to unhand my fiance," with that funny accent. Earlier on, when he was courting Vera Miles, he said "There's no place I'druther be than right here right now." I've always found those lines funny. The actor I don't care for is John Qualen with that Swedish accent. "Ethan, this country."

I think The Searchers is much easier to watch with the humorous scenes included. John Wayne gives a great performance, for which I believe he should have won an Oscar, but he's not always easy to watch in it. It's a shame he wasn't even nominated.
In the Dvd's bonus material, there's a documentary where screenwriter John Milius says John Wayne's performance is the best by any actor in any movie. If it's not the best, it's certainly one of the best. I can't imagine anyone else pulling it off.

I agree that She Wore a Yellow Ribbon is a great example of Wayne's acting ability
(he said it was his favorite of all his films), but The Searchers and Red River were maybe his best performances. Red River is another movie where he wasn't easy to watch. You end up rooting for Montgomery Clift. John Wayne named his youngest son after his character Ethan Edwards in The Searchers, so he must have been proud of his performance in it.

I think I like watching Stagecoach more than The Searchers because it's easier to watch. Both movies get 4 stars from movie critic Leonard Maltin, which is no easy feat. He's also a Ford buff and has made documentaries about the making of Ford movies like The Quiet Man and Rio Grande.

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[–] Big G-2 11 years ago

I give it to STAGECOACH, and others have already written (better than I could) on why it is the superior film, so I will leave it at that.

I don't mind at all that it's in black-and-white. But someone should do a video and audio remastering. (or whatever it is they do with old films to clean them up and improve the sound)

One of the most disappointing things was when Criterion released this. They have a great record of restoring and rereleasing films, and thought this was going to be in the same vain. However, their version (blu-ray included) was no different than the copy Warner Brothers used for their DVD release (and Warners' had a great looking cover, while Criterion’s cover, I thought was rather bland).

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[–] summeriris 11 years ago

It's also interesting that Orson Welles watched 'Stagecoach' about 40 times when he wanted to learn how to direct movies.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] red_wyrn 15 years ago

I think there are a number of shots in the movie that would have benefited from a wider aspect ratio... but then we're left with the inside the Coach shots would would have likely suffered from the different ratio...

Other than that I thought it was a fantastically well made film

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[–] Kinematico 17 years ago

Westerns are not my cup of tea, in particular, John Wayne films. However I did enjoy "Stagecoach" more than I thought I could do it.

I've seen "The Searchers", a movie that is praised as one of the best westerns ever (just behind Sergio Leone's Trilogy and perhaps "Unforgiven" or "The Wild Bunch"), but for me "Stagecoach" is the best movie out of the two.

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[–] sightless 16 years ago

I too watched em back to back for the first time yesterday.
The searchers was decent, stagecoach was my favorite western of all time:/

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[–] narnia4 16 years ago

Stagecoach, classic, great and everything, but I think The Searchers is the best western there is.

I'd have to disagree about characterization majorly. Ethan Edwards is very complex in The Searchers, and pretty much every character (including the ones that are used for comedy) are 3-dimensional. Even Mose, despite how ridiculous he was, was a far deeper character than most realize.

Put on top of that some of the best cinematography ever, some really terrific acting (imo, but I won't force the idea on anyone) and what I think is really wonderful dialogue, not to mention that many, many of the great directors have loved this movie and borrowed from this movie (Spielberg, Scorcese, Leone, etc.) David Lean studied this film to shoot landscape for Lawrence of Arabia. In short, incredible movie.

That said, I don't want to put down Stagecoach in any way. It's incredible too. I'll watch them both anyday.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Jackdon 15 years ago

Stagecoach is a better film in virtually every aspect than The Searchers. Stagecoach is the first adult western and crossed over the genre that built the industry. Its still THAT good.

The Searchers has taken a life of its own in part because it was THE film of the "brats". They all put pieces of The Searchers in their classics so when new generations see The Searchers, they see the influence which make it seem better than it actually is. I think its a classic and one of the great character studies in american film, but its got moments hard to watch and Vera Miles' performance is pretty awful (but she's unbelievable in Liberty Valance). The real brilliance of the Searchers is in Ethan Edwards, one of the greatest characters in film history.

Also The Searchers is the furthest thing from an art picture you'll see.

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[–] hnt_dnl 15 years ago

I love both films, but I've probably seen STAGECOACH at least twice as much as THE SEARCHERS. As others have alluded to, STAGECOACH seems to move at a brisk pace with no distracting scenes. Obviously, STAGECOACH is a highly influential film (not just Western), but THE SEARCHERS is also. And THE SEARCHERS has moments (mostly by Wayne) that just plain blow me away. Both films are proof that John Wayne had versatility as an actor.

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[–] SeanJoyce 15 years ago

Give me Stagecoach over all other Ford/Wayne films...and that includes the hallowed The Searchers.

"...if that was off, I'd be whoopin' your ass up and down this street." ~ an irate Tarantino

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[–] Hancock_the_Superb 15 years ago

The Searchers is a great movie, and much more ambitious than Stagecoach, but it is very flawed. Stagecoach is a nice, compact, action-driven Western and near-perfect as such.

I think it's fair to say Stagecoach is better although they aren't really that similar aside from genre. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is better than both, though.

"PLEASE DON'T DATE ME! I PROMISE I'LL WORK HARDER!"

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[–] SeanJoyce 15 years ago

Stagecoach is a nice, compact, action-driven Western and near-perfect as such.

It's just as character-driven as it is action...

"...if that was off, I'd be whoopin' your ass up and down this street." ~ an irate Tarantino

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[–] aapc-2 15 years ago

I think the two films were both very good, but Stagecoach was better written, and for that I liked it better.

But, the Searchers was good in the way it never showed you some stuff. Like the malevolent Wayne going in to scalp the Native American, but they cut away before showing him do the deed. They didn't have to, it was a perfect edit.

"I'm not gonna hit you...
The HELL I won't!" - John Wayne in McLintock

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