MovieChat Forums > Bringing Up Baby (1938) Discussion > The word 'gay' in the film referenced ho...

The word 'gay' in the film referenced homosexuals...

posted 19 years ago by rainwaterdrought
300 replies | jump to latest

I'm not sure if this is all correct, but considering my professor had tought the field for a while, I'm going with him on this one.

After watching "Bringing up Baby," my college professor said that the word "gay" used in the film is actually describing homosexuals. Firstly, many people have pointed out that "gay" came to be a popular term in order to describe homosexuals in the 1960s, but according to my professor, the Los Angeles area (which had quite a few homosexuals at the time, especially in hollywood) used the word gay even before it became the popular way to term homosexuals. Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, he also said that it was an improvisation by Cary Grant and Grant, being a hollywood star, knew the term gay from people he met in hollywood. Thirdly, it passed by the censors because many who headed the censorship board thought the word gay meant happy, which was commonly the case at that time. It was kind of like an inside joke I suppose...

My professor also told us some interesting trivia like how the writers actually had a wild, homosexual love affair while they worked together on the film... Well anyways, I hope that helps the debate...

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] djepic1 19 years ago

Hey, I think I'm in the same class with you. Maybe even the same period?

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Your professor is wrong. 'Gay' meaning homosexual wasn't in use then. The word gay meant gay as in bright or lively. Several films included 'gay' in their titles. No one thought that those films were about homosexuals. In the context of Bringing Up Baby, the use of the word 'gay' is in the traditional sense of being bright or lively. Grant is wearing a woman's robe because Hepburn has taken all his clothes while he is in the shower. Wearing a woman's robe doesn't translate into being a homosexual. If anything it is cross-dressing which is what transvestites do. However, the scene isn't a joke about transvestites either. It's a joke about Cary's character, who's a stodgy scientist, suddenly being bright and lively (i.e. gay).

By the way, the writers of Bringing Up Baby were Dudley Nichols, a man, and Hagar Wilde, a woman. They may have had an affair during the film but it wasn't a "wild, homosexual love affair".

Your professor should teach some other subject.

[–] chccubsfan128 19 years ago

No you are definately wrong it is the homosexual gay, the joke doesn't make sense the other way. The aunt and Maj Applegate don't know he is a stuffy professor, they think he is crazy. So the only context that makes sense is the homosexual one.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Your explanation doesn't work at all. Why would putting on a woman's robe be 'gay' as in homosexual? It could only mean that the Grant character had become bright/lively or carefree/lighthearted. It's the Grant character saying it. It doesn't matter what the aunt or the major know about him. He's commenting on his own behavior.

The use of the term 'gay' is just an old usage of a word that has taken on a different modern meaning. The film was made 67 years ago. Back in those days, women film characters used to say that a man was "making love to" her. The term didn't mean having sex which a film character wouldn't be allowed to say. It meant flirting. You have to understand film dialogue based on it's historical context.

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[–] wiccairish 19 years ago

Actually, Flumpy, most transvestites (cross-dressers) are heterosexual. However, most *drag queens* are gay or bi, very rarely heterosexual. In that movie Grant's character only donned those clothes because his own were drenched.

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[–] wiccairish 19 years ago

Transvestites (cross-dressers) are drawn to cross-dressing for either emotional or sexual gratification, usually in private and when the wife/girlfriend isn't home. Drag queens do it for political or entertainment purposes.

[–] dreadpirate2 18 years ago

I don't think that most people at the time distinguished between transvestitism and homosexuality. A lot of people don't today.

As for the joke, who knows? You can't help seeing it as meaning "homosexual" now, and it's funny either way. The possibility that it's a knock at the censors makes it funnier.

I did accidentally kill her father when I went to pick her up for the first date. AWKWARD!

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

It was a joke. Men wearing women's clothes as a joke has a long history. Milton Berle did it on his TV show all the time. There's a whole genre of current films with black actors cross dressing as black women, see e.g. Eddie Murphy in The Nutty Professor. Do you figure he's gay?

There is absolutely no evidence that Grant was gay.

The joke works perfectly using the term 'gay' in its original sense. Do you think that people who saw the film in 1938 didn't think the joke was funny because they weren't in on the use of 'gay' as meaning homosexual. Of course, they thought it was funny.

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[–] loploppresents 18 years ago

Okay, first of all, people back then weren't as enlightened about the distinctions among various sexual preferences/practices. Many equated transvestitism with homosexuality. Very few people back then would have said, "Hey, wait a minute... Most transvestites are heterosexual!"

Secondly, think about the syntax. Grant says, "I just went GAY all of a sudden!" WENT gay. If he was talking about gay in the lively/carefree way, the correct syntax would be: "I've become gay..." or "I became gay..." "To go gay" is an expression used in reference to homosexuality.

Thirdly, since 1933, five years prior to the filming of Bringing Up Baby, Grant had shared a house with Randolph Scott, and there had been many rumors about their relationship. Grant had the good humor to let the rumors fly and even playfully encourage them a little. The line in Bringing Up Baby is an inside joke about those rumors.

If you want a good history of homosexuality in film, see The Celluloid Closet. It even refers to this line in Bringing Up Baby.

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

i agree,the term "gay" at that time did not mean homosesexual,,it meant happy car free'''there where movies likt the 'gay devoicee'which was not about homosexualty,sometimes i feel the main stream should take back that word,for its true meaning.........

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Rainwaterdrought, I don't know whether what your prof said is true or not, but I'm going to believe it cause that's a fun and much more interesting explanation than the others. Plus it just makes the whole thing even funnier because Cary WAS gay...or bi. Whatever.

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

i feel the same way,,,he was not,i only wish he was still around to defen his self.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

The sleazeballs who write celebrity biographies only start claiming that people are gay after the person is dead. That's because dead people or their estates cannot sue anyone for libel.

[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

probally so,,,didn't grant sue jay leno for that very same thing?????

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Not Leno. In 1980, Chevy Chase made a public remark about Cary being gay and Cary sued him for $10 million. Chase publicly apologized and the matter was, apparently, settled.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

NO, Cary Grant WASSSS a bisexual. I mean SERIOUSLY. He just REALLY was. There is nothing wrong with that so I don't see why everyone is getting all defensive and freaking out. The man just went BOTH WAYS. Big deal! The fact that he sued Chase just proves it. A completely straight man would have been like, "Yeah, whatever" and that's that.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

You have absolutely no evidence that Cary Grant was a homosexual. It's all rumor. If anyone had any evidence it would have come out already. Just because you want people to be gay, doesn't mean they were/are.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Yes, I WANT him to be gay, you know? It is in my best interests. He LIVED with a man. I mean come on.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

A lot of men live together. Jimmie Stewart and Henry Fonda lived together. Do you think they were gay too?

[–] DryToast 19 years ago

I knew a handsome young man who used to be Mr. Grant's caddy. Every year until Mr. Grant's death, he sent this young man flowers on his birthday.

"Everett Sloane - he was good - pills. Margaret Sullivan, pills. Lupe Velez, a lot of pills."

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Nice story. However, why should anyone believe it? And even if it is true, why does that make Grant gay?

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Lysandra, are you a homophobe? I happen to be a BIG Cary Grant fan and I love him to little tiny pieces. You seem to have a problem with the mere suggestion that he was gay! What is that about? In all of the books about Hollywood that I have read, all of the autobiographies, the stars pretty much took it for granted that Cary was bi! They didn't make a big deal about it, but it was there.

Yeah, Jimmy and Henry lived together, but I mean they did it for practical reasons. Cary and Rudolph had a mansion together! Ever see pics of the two of them working out together in their tight exercise outfits? Just a little gay.

THAT'S JUST ONE MORE REASON TO LOVE HIM.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

And what should we call a person who goes around claiming that someone who is not gay, is? A heterophobe. You have no credible evidence at all that Grant was gay. Go look up the definition of 'credible evidence'.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

I really can't because that is two words and the thing about dictionaries is that you can only look up one word at a time, hon.

Here are the facts:

-Neither of us have ever met Cary Grant (I am assuming)
-Neither of us know him personally or in any way
-Neither of us have any proof that he was gay or not
-Neither of us should give a care on account of we do not know him
-You are a homophobe

I think it's sad that you would probably dislike Cary if you knew for sure he was gay. Why that attitude? I just always thought he was gay and that's that. And I'm not a 'heterophobe' (why don't you grab a dictionary yourself) because I'm pretty sure that all of my favourite actors are straight. So yeah!

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Actually I have been around Grant although I never formally met him.

The reason I know he wasn't gay is because he said he wasn't and absolutely no one has ever said they had gay sex with him. If you know of someone who has, tell us who it is.

It is not homophobic to point out that someone who is not gay is, in fact, not gay. It is simply a statement of fact.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

A lot of people said he was gay and a lot of people said he was straight. I used that to come to the conclusion that he was bi. I cannot simply disregard all of the info stating he was gay nor can I ignore the fact that he liked the ladies. I say the man went both ways.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

What a lot of people say isn't evidence unless they are actually talking about having sex with him. I don't care what you believe. There is simply no evidence that Grant was gay (which includes bisexual).

[–] BreeInAZ 19 years ago

What a lot of people say isn't evidence unless they are actually talking about having sex with him. I don't care what you believe. There is simply no evidence that Grant was gay (which includes bisexual).

OMG!!! Gay does NOT mean bisexual! How biphobic can one be?

Cary Grant admittedly was bisexual... this is no secret. FYI - so were Erroll Flynn and Tyrone Power... many Hollywood men have been and are bisexual. There have been rumors about Brad Pitt's biseuality for years and let us not forget Angelina Jolie's fairly recent lighting striking comments about marriage "I don't think i could ever marry a man who is not bisexual." That pretty much sums that up, huh?

Ted in Gilbert, AZ

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Cary Grant was not "admittedly" bisexual. He, in fact, denied that he had ever had sex with a man. Bisexual just means that someone engages in both heterosexual and homosexual activities. Hence, bisexuals are also homosexuals. The terms are interchangeable. And Grant was neither a bisexual nor a homosexual.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Grant sued Chevy Chase for $10 million for making a public statement that suggested that Grant was gay. That's adequate proof that he wasn't "admittedly bisexual".

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[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Troll alert

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[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

I know that it is hard for someone like you to follow the logical progression of a thread but the poster above described Cary Grant as "admittedly bisexual". 'Admittedly' means that the person, in this case Cary Grant, admitted that he was gay/bisexual. I pointed out to the original poster that Grant never admitted that he was gay/bisexual so he was clearly not "admittedly bisexual". You then started trolling.

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[–] BreeInAZ 18 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary_Grant#Personal_life_in_Hollywood

enough said.

Ted in Gilbert, AZ

[–] DryToast 19 years ago

I believe that where there's smoke there is usually fire.

Some people can impartially look at all the "evidence" and say two and two might be four, or two and two might not be four.

Then there are those people who say two and two can't possibly ever be four, and their rudeness and hysteria on the subject only serve to point up their emotional problems. People like this need professional help.

"Everett Sloane - he was good - pills. Margaret Sullivan, pills. Lupe Velez, a lot of pills."

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Thanks, momom49! I think that it's probable that it was just meant to mean 'happy' or whatever, but I still think that Cary was a little bit gay. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just think that with all of that evidence it's hard to ignore it. Like someone up there posted, "Where there's smoke, there's fire".

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

What is the evidence that Grant was gay? And by the way, gossip is not evidence.

[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

boy,this sure did turn into a debait?,,i still say that cary grant was not gay,,,or bi...if he was gay,,i guess i would still see him as one of my fav,30,and 40's actors..but the man said he was not,,,and thats good enougth for me.....no smoke no fire!!!!!!

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[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

See, Lysandra...the last two posters gave actual proof to support their belief that Grant was not gay. All you did was contradict everything I said. If you had only offered some interesting proof in any of your numerous posts, we would have finished this argument long ago.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Everyone is presumed to be heterosexual. The burden of proof is on whoever wants to claim otherwise. I didn't have to prove anything to you since Grant was heterosexual as he was presumed to be.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Yeah, but the whole point of an argument is to present new ideas and opinions and defend them against others with opposing ones. All you did was contradict.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

No. Everyone is presumed to be heterosexual. The burden of proof is on whoever wants to claim otherwise. I didn't have to prove anything to you since Grant was heterosexual as he was presumed to be.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch!

I'm beginning to think that maybe Cary was not overly gay. But really...he gives off that homo vibe and he does not seem to mind being a little bit feminine every once in a while, so I believe that he did have a bit of gay in him.

[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

don't agree,i have seen a lot of cary grant movies over the years,i cant recall any that shows any feminent roles????even in my faverate wife.,there was the scene with the doctor and he was getting clothes for irene dunn he was still massculent in that scene.but i must say i never saw the cole porter movie to the end.even in bring up baby,while wearing the night gown,to i saw a man in a night gown.(nothing feminent because he played it that way)...

[–] DryToast 19 years ago

If you think you have to be feminine (feminent?) to be gay, you're sadly mistaken.

"Everett Sloane - he was good - pills. Margaret Sullivan, pills. Lupe Velez, a lot of pills."

[–] DryToast 19 years ago

Everyone is presumed to be heterosexual.

Only by people who are wrong 10 percent of the time, and by people who have an anti-gay axe to grind.

"Everett Sloane - he was good - pills. Margaret Sullivan, pills. Lupe Velez, a lot of pills."

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Cary spent practically a whole movie in drag! THINK! Remember? The little uniform and the wig?

Anyways, he does not strike me as the kind of man who would be afraid to experiment because he appears to be very comfortable in any situation.

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

no,no thats not what i'm saying,,,i'm saying he can play feminine roles but with masculinus...the other poster was saying when he played these roles he was femine in them.(and stop making fun of my spelling...........

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

great story

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[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Exactly! He did not seem uncomfortable at all when he had to act like a woman! He just went along with it and retained all his dignity. It was so mervelous!

[–] RamblerReb 19 years ago

In defense of John Wayne's latent homosexuality, he did dress up in a fluffy pink bunny suit on Laugh-In.

Authority is the aqua regia of golden character.

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

ok,,,mommom
lets take another break from bringing up baby' we have three movies,you seam like a real cary grant fan. we have three movies
1.the front page
2.his girl friday
3.the front page,with jack lemond and w.matthew
question which one was the best...i'll give you a hint cary grant was in one of them...

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

yeah,,you really are a cary grant fan...and i have seen people will talk.it was very enjoyable.but my favarite cary grant MOVIE,is my favarite wife,ID,and RS,but i'm not going to type the story.(except end i love it when he comes back from the actic in the santa suite)...merry christmas.........
and you know the hint was just a joke.................

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

mommom i know that i was just pulling your leg,,,,,you know you mad a good point about cary grant making a comedy western,,it would have funny!

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[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

ok,,,,momma(donna)
thanks for the heads up on the suv!(be looking forward to more posts on !CG and others............................................................

[–] crimeandpunishment 18 years ago

ha, ha, ha. that's like saying "everyone is presumed to be white" or "everyone is presumed to be male."

[–] binksonfilm 19 years ago

Not that it would have been considered a comment on Grant himself, but haven't you ever heard of an "in-joke" being used in a movie? Like the Disney animators and their single frame "revelations"?

Isn't that the point of some double entendre, that not everyone gets the second meaning?

But all the other layers we might want are in place, namely great acting, sufficient plot to bedazzle and confuse, as well as some brilliantly witty dialogue with plenty of delicious double entendre. Many directors in the American studio system loved to work in sexual references as often as they could, Hitchcock most notably for some extremely obvious phallic manipulations in his one romantic comedy, Mr. and Mrs. Smith. But I think Mr. Bone helping out Miss. Vance chase down her big ol' leopard (pussycat) is pretty rich. And 'finding the bone' is to(sic) funny. Cary Grant in a woman's fluffy nightgown screeching "Because I just went gay all of a sudden" to explain his strange attire, as he leaps into the air, is the last straw.

http://www.hour.ca/film/movie.aspx?iIDFilm=6155

The breakneck pace of the dialogue allowed for an extraordinary amount of double entendre. Hepburn and Grant spent an entire day on the “what happened to the bone?” scene because they couldn’t stop laughing. Indeed Hawks maintained that one of his favorite lines evaded the censors because the audience was always laughing too hard to hear it. He said that only when finally seen on tv, could you hear Cary Grant say, “I feel a perfect ass” after the back of Hepburn’s skirt had been torn away.

http://www.moviediva.com/MD_root/reviewpages/MDBringingUpBaby.htm

For these reasons I should perhaps have better entitled my talk, "What Did Cary Grant Know About 'Going Gay' and When Did He Know it?: On the Sociolinguistic Development of the Popular Term GAY 'homosexual'."

Let me begin by summarizing the major etymological strands that gave us GAY 'homosexual'.
(1). It is well documented that GAY was an adjective used in England in the earlier twentieth century to describe prostitutes, and the meaning of the term appears to have been extended sometimes to male homosexual prostitutes and male homosexuals (see Jonathan Lighter, in the 1994 first volume of the RANDOM HOUSE HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, s.v. GAY adj. 1a).
(2). It is well documented that the term GAYCAT was applied in earlier-twentieth-century America to juvenile male hobos, many of whom putatively became the passive sexual partners of older male hobos (see, e.g., THE OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY, s.v. GAY CAT ;. RANDOM HOUSE HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, s.v. GAY adj. 1b).
(3). The primary meaning of GAY was 'happy', with important semantic extensions of meaning as 'carefree, colorful, energetically frivolous, hedonistic'. Thus a GAY party in this extended sense (3) was a party that was happy, colorful, energetically frivolous, and/or hedonistic--just the sort of party at which stereotypical male homosexuals might be found, since queers were/are stereotypically, among other things, party animals who were/are carefree, colorful, energetically frivolous, and hedonistic. The extension of GAY to mean 'male homosexual' may well have thus been largely little more than a kind of metonymy based on stereotypes: homosexuals are GAY; therefore, GAY means 'homosexual'.

http://www.americandialect.org/americandialectarchives/oct97056.html

Also, check out:
"Romantic Love and Friendship: The Redefinition of Gender Relations in Screwball Comedy" by Tina Olsin Lent, (pp. 314-331)
http://tags.library.upenn.edu/tdlee

[–] jg67 18 years ago

"He LIVED with a man. I mean come on."

Oh. Well in that case he must have been a flamer.

"Girl,you betta bash Mister upside the head and think about heaven later!" - Sophia

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[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

gay

adj 1: bright and pleasant; promoting a feeling of cheer; "a cheery hello"; "a gay sunny room"; "a sunny smile" [syn: cheery, sunny] 2: full of or showing high-spirited merriment; "when hearts were young and gay"; "a poet could not but be gay, in such a jocund company"- Wordsworth; "the jolly crowd at the reunion"; "jolly old Saint Nick"; "a jovial old gentleman"; "have a merry Christmas"; "peals of merry laughter"; "a mirthful laugh" [syn: jocund, jolly, jovial, merry, mirthful] 3: given to social pleasures often including dissipation; "led a gay Bohemian life"; "a gay old rogue with an eye for the ladies" 4: brightly colored and showy; "girls decked out in brave new dresses"; "brave banners flying"; "`braw' is a Scottish word"; "a dress a bit too gay for her years"; "birds with gay plumage" [syn: brave, braw] 5: offering fun and gaiety; "a gala ball after the inauguration"; "a festive (or festal) occasion"; "gay and exciting night life"; "a merry evening" [syn: gala(a), festal, festive, merry]

Synonyms for 'gay'

alert, animate, animated, blithe, blithesome, bouncy, brash, carefree, cheerful, cheery, chipper, chirpy, confident, convivial, devil-may-care, festive, forward, frivolous, frolicsome, fun-loving, gamesome, glad, gleeful, hilarious, insouciant, jocund, jolly, jovial, joyful, joyous, keen, light-hearted, lively, merry, mirthful, playful, pleasure-seeking, presuming, pushy, rollicking, self-assertive, sparkling, spirited, sportive, sprightly, sunny, vivacious, wild, zippy

[–] jfulbright 19 years ago

I'll step into the fray and agree on a few points about this:

First: look at the structure of the line: It's, "I just went GAY, all of the sudden!" No one, even in the 30s, "went" gay to mean he had become carefree. One might say, "I felt gay, all of the sudden," but not, "I went gay." It doesn't make any sense. It would be like saying, "I went HAPPY!"

Second: I don't believe that line is in the script. Seems ad-libbed.

Third: It passed the censors because they didn't get it. There are a few other things that should've been flagged by the censors as well: I heard Hepburn utter the phrase, "Oh, Jesus," at one point.

The "gay"line ranks as an inside joke for me.

Disagreement:
As for the "wild, homosexual affair" between the writers...I don't see how that would be possible. As previously noted, wasn't one of them a woman?

RE: Let's call this one a draw:
Cary Grant may well have been bisexual. People have often cited examples of famous actors who lived together at some points in their lives (I believe Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart shared an appartment for awhile), however, this usually took place as an expense-sharing situation BEFORE either became successful. Cary Grant and Randolph Scott shared a "bachelor pad" for a long time after both were stars. In that very homophobic time, it would seem odd that two virile Hollywood actors would jeopardize their images by living together for so long if there weren't some very good reason for it.

OTOH, it doesn't really matter, and it didn't really matter to Grant or his wives. Whether or not that rumor is true has absolutely no bearing on the hilarious "gay" line in Bringing Up Baby.

It's a funny film, and it's a funny moment, regardless of what "gay" meant then.

[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

you are 100% right about the way the line went'''maybe it was in error...and he ment i just felt gay''but didn't you notice that when he said the line he jump up in the air...as to mean happy carefree??????

[–] jfulbright 19 years ago

If Grant doesn't mean "gay" in the homosexual sense, then the joke makes little sense whatsoever, even in the context of 1930s America. Sure, 99% of the audience would've gotten, "I just became unexplainedly happy, suddenly," as the meaning of the joke, it really wouldn't have been all that funny.

There was a HUGE gay subtext in films in that time and in subsequent decades. Gay audiences knew how to read between the lines for sure, and even straight people got a lot more out of mainstream films than we could glean today.

My original reading of the line stands. Whether 90% of the audience "got it" is up to interpretation.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Do you seriously think that the scene wasn't funny to the 99.9% of the audience who didn't get the alleged gay reference? Of course it was funny. That's because the scene is funny without regard to any supposed allusion to the character declaring himself to be a homosexual. That's patently obvious.

The scene is similar to other ad-libbed scenes in the film like Kate Hepburn's scene where she accidentally broke the heel on one of her shoes and starts limping and says "I was born on the side of a hill". It makes absolutely no sense but is funny in the context of the overall 'lunacy' of the film. It's one thing to say that the 'gay' scene is a between the lines nod to the gay community and quite another to say that the scene is not funny unless you get the supposed 'gay' joke. The scene, in fact, stands on it's own as a funny scene.

And this, of course, is why your claim that the term 'gay' is used in its modern sense in the film is wrong. The scene is funny without regard to any 'gay' joke being slipped in and there is absolutely no evidence that any of the persons involved with the film had any intention of making a 'gay' joke in the film.

And by the way there was no 'huge' gay subtext in films in those days. That's absurd.

[–] loploppresents 18 years ago

"I was born on the side of a hill" DOES make sense because if she was born on the side of a hill, one leg would be shorter than the other. Of course, this wouldn't actually happen in real life, but the line does have a certain logic to it, if only an absurd logic.

[–] mjr1114 15 years ago

Actually, maybe this one line caused the movie to fail?????
Afterall, if they didn't get the line, they may not have laughed or if they did get the line, they may have been too appalled at it and spread the word to their friends and colleagues. You weren't there to know, but you keep insisting you know what the line meant to those audiences, as if it were a hit. IT WAS A FLOP! This means that the audience of the day didn't even GET the movie or they just didn't appreciate the humor, all together. Why constantly argue the point? You've only succeeded in making yourself look more and more naive with every argument. The world was not as innocent as you'd like to paint it, back then. The turn of the century from the 1800's into the 1900's was quite scandalous. You should do some reading. Drug use, prostitution, unwed mothers, murders, etc, were as predominant, if not more so, than as they were at the turn of the century from 1900's to the 2000's. So proves the saying, 'The more things change, the more they stay the same.'

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Blackjack870 19 years ago

Etymology

I'm surprised none of you decided to look up the Etymology of "Gay" in your desire to prove whether or not the usage meant homosexual.

Here are two sites you should check out (I've tried to posted the two most reliable looking sites, and besides, both agree)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gay
http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorg.htm

Anyway, in reality, if gay was used to mean homosexual, and it did slip through the censors (who I doubt were stupid), then Cary Grant was probably involved in the gay culture of Hollywood (or at least was pretty exposed to it). Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not saying he was gay (perhaps he was exposed through other homosexual friends), I'm just saying it most likely meant homosexual in the film and he knew about homosexuality in much more than normal way for the time.

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

If the word 'gay' was generally known to mean homosexual, as your sources claim, the censors of the day would have caught it and not allowed it in the film. The are many uses of the word gay in its traditional meaning in the films of the era including The Gay Divorcee, The Gay Caballero, etc. Neither Grant nor the writers of the script or Howard Hawks were gay. There was absolutely no reason for any of them to make a gay joke in the film. The scene at issue stands alone as a funny scene without regard to any reference to homosexuality. Dressing like a woman isn't the same thing as being gay. The use of gay in the film has only been reinterpreted as meaning homosexual since the 1960s when the word became commonly used to mean gay. This is a no-brainer. Stop bringing it up.

[–] GoUSN 17 years ago

Well, of course you're right, jfulbright. . . . Those of you who maintain that this use of "gay" simply was meant in its now-archaic sense of "giddily happy" are just being obstinate. Current, nuanced understandings of transvestites as not necessarily being homosexual while drag cross-dressers usually are would not instantly have been a distinction on the mind of a 1938 Hollywood insider saying the line "I just went GAY all of a sudden." The speaker of that line would well have known that "the 'Bohemian' lifestyle" included female impersonators as common ingredients at "gay" parties of the time. Hence, the line. . . . .

"Imagine I had placed into my IMDB signature a clever saying regarding people like you."

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

The two people who wrote the script for Bringing Up Baby didn't have a "wild homosexual love affair". One of them was a man, Dudley Nichols, and one a woman, Hagar Wilde. The OP's professor is obviously a homosexual who sees gay activity everywhere even where it can't possibly exist. His comment is fully consistent with the claim that Grant's ad-lib in BUB was a gay joke. Neither are true which doesn't stop people like the OP's professor from making such ridiculous claims.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Homophobics are FUNNYYYYYY! It is so easy to get to them...

[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Heterophobics are FUNNYYYYYY! It is so easy to get to them...

[–] bunny226622 19 years ago

Okay, I looked up Cary Grant in Wikipedia and found this:

'Grant was the first to use the word "gay" meaning homosexual context on screen, in an ad-lib during a take that was kept in the film. Its meaning was not fully grasped by censors and so it slipped by the Hays code. In the famous 1938 screwball comedy, Bringing Up Baby, he appears in one scene wearing a pink dressing gown, telling incredulous observers "I just went gay all of a sudden".'

Also, I'm thinking of Victor/Victoria in the use of the word gay. Isn't it set in the 30's. I can't believe that whole story would be written with such a historical inaccuracy. In that movie society defines homosexuals as "gay" and it's set around the same time "Bringing Up Baby" was made.

I think the term "gay" was probably used within certain social circles--perhaps mostly gay people used it. And I'm inclined to believe that some people in Hollywood might know what it meant. But it hadn't hit the mainstream and probably most of the people who saw the movie at the time didn't get that part of the joke.
Oh my god, the turkeys are hitting the ground like sacks of wet cement!

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Lysandra_Yaxley 19 years ago

Wikipedia is mostly rubbish and anyone who cites it as authority is an idiot. And I say that even though I have submitted information to the site.

[–] dain_bramaged_926 19 years ago

Of COURSE you have. Of course.

[–] obxparadise 18 years ago

wikipedia is not a great resource. it is written by whomever wants to put information in there. Anyone can edit anyone's entries.

[–] thelefthandedgun 19 years ago

hey,,mommom,,all is well ,,,i cought your post on don knotts????
by the way check on my post on its a wonderful life,,i'm interested in your responce to my post??????on george bailley