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(Serious Question) Why is Russia Invading Ukraine?


Does anyone legitimately know? I'm so tired of hearing the "it's because Putin is evil" argument.

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The reason is not hard to guess. It is in the list of the demands from Russia, I think mainly 2:

1) Ukraine permanently giving up joining NATO.
2) Demilitarize Ukraine. Ukraine to remain as a neutral country.

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Fake news.

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How so?

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Nato and demilitarization are just pretexts to get more of the Ukraine's land and specially resources - oil, gas, industry - most of them being in East Ukraine, what a coincidence, right? Well, not.

Do you really think that if Ukraine gives up NOW and gives up joining NATO and ditches it's army Russia will give back Crimea and all the land they are interested in? If you think so you are naive.

Plus: Putin needs a puppet in Ukraine, just the same as he has one in Belarus. As long as he cannot control Ukraine he will keep smashing it ... unless he gets what he wants (land, oil, gas, industry).

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So you even admit everything I said was true.

But you called it fake news anyway.

I am sorry, you are the sort of low life I don't like to talk to.

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No, I don't.

This is not true, they are NOT the main reason Russia attacked Ukraine. Those are the main fake reasons.

"1) Ukraine permanently giving up joining NATO.
2) Demilitarize Ukraine. Ukraine to remain as a neutral country."

Can you fucking read???

The main reason is: land and resources grab.

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And if I remember correctly, Russia also asked during negotiations that Ukraine will recognize the independence of Donetsk and Lukansk, and recognize Crimea as part of Russia.
So basically 4 main demands.
But since all media reports peace talks but never the actual topics of those peace talks, I'm not sure it's only this.

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The underhanded BS that the US has had going in Ukraine has hidden all of this and flattened the narrative to black and white, good and evil and cast Putin as Hitler. When this is over, if the world has not been destroyed the BS of America may ruin our brand ... who is going to take the US seriously anymore. Already with the fake invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan we are the most feared nation in the world - and now we are trying to off that to Putin and Russia.

The most ridiculous BS is in the news, and no one can report or express any different opinions - just like the run up to the Iraq war. Even normally sensible media has had to jump on the bandwagon of this jingoism and war mongering. I think the US supports these nationalists in Europe because it does not want Europe to unite... which is why our nationalists, the Republican, supported Brexit.

This BS story of Trump and the GOP is going to collapse - hopefully, because like the West in Ukraine, these nationalists are doing nothing good for the people. The same inequality and disinvestment in industry has hit Ukraine as affects Americans ... and the people are tired of it and getting wise to it.

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There are a lot of factors. I posted earlier about the oil and gas rights in the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. Ukraine also passed a law making Ukrainian the official language and that ticked off the Russians. Twenty to thirty percent of Ukraine's population are ethnic Russian holdovers from the Soviet Union. All of the ex-Soviet republics have ethnic Russians who live there and identify as Russians.

https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/621aa86ad2857119a7608f44/Why-specifically-Ukraine?reply=621ac9c6d2857119a76090f9

After the takeover of Crimea, Ukraine built a dam to divert water from Crimea. Russia was not paying for the water so their water supply was cut off. Russia was delivering water by truck but that was expensive.

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/597910-how-a-ukrainian-dam-played-a-key-role-in-tensions-with

Putin also posted an essay during Summer 2021 that stated that Ukrainians cannot exist separately from Russia. Putin sees Ukraine as a part of Russia but the Ukrainians have been trying to separate from Russia for 30+ years.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-new-ukraine-essay-reflects-imperial-ambitions/



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You can watch a few documentaries, "Revealing Ukraine", "Ukraine On Fire". It is a long running story that has not been reported on in the West. You can find both of them on YouTube I think ... if not they are cheap to rent on Amazon Prime.

Basically Ukraine has been subverted with Western money. The US has funneled money to PR firms to get candidates elected to the Presidency.

Two of the most important were Victor Yushenko, you might remember because he evoked a lot of pity because while running he was somehow poisoned with dioxin and his face puffed all up, but he survived and won the election. But he was a lousy President, so he got voted out. But before he left office he posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor or whatever they call it to a man named Stepan Bandera, white nationalist and a Nazi who was a terrorist. This action demonstrated Yushenko's and the US's ties to the Nazis in Ukraine. No one can govern from either side because if they cross the Nazis they get murdered. Something never reported in the Western media. Meanwhile the country is looted, industries that might compete with the West are shut down.

Ukraine's government also banned the use of German, and began to make life hard for the Russian majority in the Southeast of the country - the Donbass. This area, and the Sea of Azov is Russia's only warm water port - a strategic necessity for them. Check a map.

Then came Victor Yushenko, a Russian supported candidate, a friend of Putin, but they disagree strongly on certain issues, for instance Yushenko believes Ukraine is an independent nation while Putin thinks its ties to Russia are so strong it is really part of Russia. Yushenko did an OK job as President, but all this time the West was moving in with money. The economy started to go bad because the West shuttered almost all of Ukraine's industry, train, auto, aerospace, shipbuilding, etc, and people started to leave Ukraine - a million a years.

Meanwhile the Nationalist Nazis were attacking Russians, which culminated in the Maidan uprising where Nazis shot and killed police, and burned Russian protestors in a building. When the government tried to bring back order, the Nazis basically ran Yushenko out of the country. He grabbed a helicopter, but his car was machine-gunned by Nazis as he was leaving.

Skip to Zelensky, the current hero President of Ukraine. A popular media figure, a rich guy with millions in offshore bank accounts. The problem is that even he cannot get much done because the Right-wing nationalist Nazis who the West has basically hired as thugs threaten to kill him if he does anything they don't like.

Meanwhile the US is making plans to try to wedge Ukraine economically to the EU, and militarily to NATO, which they promised not to do, and Russia say is an existential threat. Ostensibly this is the reason Russia invaded because of the possibility that Ukraine would join NATO. The other side of that is that Germany and France do not want Ukraine in NATO because they do not want to be on the hook to defend Ukraine is Russia invades.

The plan of the US has been an unwanted disaster for Europe. Russia invaded because their demands are:
- Change Ukraine's Constitution to forbid joining NATO.
- Recognize Crimea as Russian.
- Allow the Russian areas in Ukraine autonomy/indepence.
- Ukraine should be neutral/demilitarized.
- Get rid of the Nationalist Nazis. ( see Azov Battalion )

Russia has been steadily broadcasting their stand on these issue for years, and the US/West has been ignoring them and calling their bluff. I think Putin, just my opinion, that Putin invaded Ukraine and said he would use nukes because right or wrong he felt he needed to make a statement and draw a line.

There is a lot more to this than I can fit here, and I do not mean to attack or defend any side of this. Seeing Putin's motives is not to agree with him.

My personal opinion is that the fighting should have stopped ASAP, but the Nazis are the ones who prolong it and provoke it - because they know they are either gone or dead when Putin gets a hold of them. They have gotten millions of dollars of Western arms, and the longer this goes on the more chance that they will escape to greater Europe and terrorize other countries will all those arms. Imagine US government officials or airliners flying into Europe and being downed by Stinger missiles. It is insane.

I think Zelensky doesn't want to miss his chance to a worldwide hero and it is pushing him to make bad decisions. Ukraine cannot win against the Russians, and he seems willing to get Ukrainians killed and blow up the country so he can be bigshot oligarch President. It's a frickin' mess.

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The most important reason is that Ukraine is the door to invade Russia. That's why NATO wants it so bad.

From Kyiv to Moscow, there's a plain that can be easily crossed during peak winter (frozen ground) or summer (dry).

Besides that, intercontinental nuclear weapons are difficult to take down, but they can easily be taken down in a narrow window after lunch. Anti-missile weapons deployed in East Ukraine could take down Russian intercontinental nuclear weapons easily. That means NATO could invade Russia without being afraid of nuke retaliation (other than submarines, which is a small part).

In a nutshell: if Ukraine joined NATO, Russia would be completely vulnerable and couldn't even retaliate if the NATO decided to invade them.

That's why it's a deal-breaker.

Russia is not gonna stop until they have enough territory to feel safe, which probably is about 2/3 of former Ukraine. Peace negotiations are gonna fail. Russia does not trust treaties anymore: Ukraine didn't fulfill Minsk ones and NATO supported that. Putin is dying, and he's not gonna die without leaving that problem solved.

I only see two possible solutions Putin could accept: either Russia creates a buffer pro-Russian state (they're invading the pro-Russian areas, which are East and South Ukraine), either Russia takes the invaded territory as part of their own. I think the second one is more likely. If Putin was thinking about a buffer state, he would have already publicized it, so pro-Russian population in Ukraine would support Russian forces. In general, East and South Ukraine don't want to join Russia, but they don't like to be part of West Ukraine neither. Probably, they would be much happier being independent, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

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Some interesting replies here...

I'm going to slightly disagree with the NATO threat for one reason only: Ukraine was never going to be allowed in NATO.

Zelensky admitted as much and said so himself:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/zelensky-ukraine-must-recognize-it-will-not-join-nato_4338836.html

https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1503716898604728323

Too many countries, even the U.S., had to acknowledge Ukraine couldn't join due to corruption, and what's more, only non-hostile nations can join NATO, but Ukraine has been at war for years, thus making them ineligible.

The only way NATO would pose a problem for Putin is if the U.S., and other NATO nations flipped their vote and decided to let Ukraine in, despite them being in a soft war, so maybe Putin decided to go for a mild invasion to guarantee Ukraine wouldn't be accepted into NATO (not that the corrupt globalists would actually play by the rules).

The U.S., bio labs in Ukraine were Putin's primary targets during the initial invasion. Some Russians were commenting about it a couple of weeks ago, but only recently did it appear in the news:
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/victoria-nuland-ukraine-has-biological?s=r

The big question is: why did Russia seek those labs out first and why did the MSM all claim that the existence of those labs was "fake news"?

This story seems to be unfolding like a rose in bloom. Unfortunately there are no trustworthy news outlets covering all of the different angles in a cohesive fashion.

We obviously know it's not about genocide, since Putin didn't just glass major Ukrainian cities, only select targets in select cities.

We know it's not entirely about conquering Ukraine because they made a bee-line for the labs first instead of securing the bordering regions.

Putin seems to want Ukraine (or certain parts of it), but is going about it in a rather clandestine fashion. It could all just be for show for the globalists to enact their own political measures within their given States (similar to the games South and North Korea played together to curb-stomp interest in a certain political candidate).



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Putin seems to want Ukraine (or certain parts of it), but is going about it in a rather clandestine fashion.

Not that clandestine.

I read in an article about a week ago stating that the key is Uman, and I think it was right. Uman is the key city that separates East Ukraine from West Ukraine. A classic maneuver in Ukraine is taking Uman both from the south and the north, encircling enemy forces. That's what German forces did in WW2, encircling Soviet ones in West Ukraine after the Battle of Uman. Putin seems to be doing the reverse one: if Russia takes Uman, Ukrainian forces in East Ukraine will be encircled and isolated, to either surrender or die.

You check the map, Russian forces are going down from Kyiv and up from Mykolaiv to take it. It's not clandestine. It's clear as day. And I think Ukrainian government knows it, but they can't do shit. That's why diplomacy is speeding up. In 3-4 weeks the war is likely to be over. Putin knows it. Zelensky knows it. Biden knows it.
https://i.redd.it/rgwqqo3noqn81.jpg

And Kaczynski knows it too. That's why he started to move. Ukraine holds some old Polish territory. Maybe there's others than Russia that want a piece of this cake.

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Thanks for that graph. It's quite interesting (and much less of a mess than the ridiculous images the MSM have been showing).

So they didn't target the regions with nuclear power plants first? That's very telling. So we know it's not simply about energy resource control (although they are making for the plant in Voznesensk based on the chart).

They also didn't immediately take Odessa, despite having secured Kherson? That's odd, since it would seem like they would immediately want all ports under control ASAP for naval invasion. I guess the Voznesensk plant is more important than the Odessa ports?

A classic maneuver in Ukraine is taking Uman both from the south and the north, encircling enemy forces. That's what German forces did in WW2, encircling Soviet ones in West Ukraine after the Battle of Uman. Putin seems to be doing the reverse one: if Russia takes Uman, Ukrainian forces in East Ukraine will be encircled and isolated, to either surrender or die.


That makes sense, and it also explains why the Russian military convoys were moving at a rapid clip at the start of the war.

But that leads to another question: with Russia's superior air and naval forces, why not just use the navy to secure the south and the air force to paratroop in at Kyiv in the north? Seems like focusing mostly on ground forces was a cumbersome way about it, but maybe they did do that and had the convoy meet the troops further inland?

In 3-4 weeks the war is likely to be over. Putin knows it. Zelensky knows it. Biden knows it.


Seems like it. The media is drumming it up like Russia is losing massive amounts of troops while simultaneously killing countless civilians, but the fighting is far and few between, sporadic and only at specific locations. I'm curious what the end-game of this maneuver will look like and how the globalists will respond?

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But that leads to another question: with Russia's superior air and naval forces, why not just use the navy to secure the south and the air force to paratroop in at Kyiv in the north? Seems like focusing mostly on ground forces was a cumbersome way about it, but maybe they did do that and had the convoy meet the troops further inland?

East and South Ukraine have a majority ethnic Russian population.
https://twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1504320868545351683?cxt=HHwWhsDS3YL3teApAAAA

That's why Russian forces are being so careful and avoiding using Air and Artillery, and that's why Ukrainian forces (that purged ethnic Russian) are using civilians as human shields. Putin is not gonna give them back to Ukraine. It will become either a buffer state of part of Russia, one of two.

I'm curious what the end-game of this maneuver will look like and how the globalists will respond?

I was reading about Russian doctrine a couple of weeks ago. I didn't save the link, sorry, and it's a pity, since it was VERY interesting. According to modern Russian geopolitical doctrine, there was two scenarios: either a local conflict now in Ukraine, or a unstable situation that could escalate later on to WW3.

According to that doctrine, taking East Ukraine would create a more stable scenario and would improve the relations between Russia and Europe mid and long term. And I personally agree, there's a proverb that say "good fences makes good neighbors". East Ukraine is the Russian fence.

I hope the war ends quickly, with as few casualties as possible, and Russia gets into a more safe and stable situation. That country is a source of natural resources, and it's in the best interest of Europe to have a stable commercial relationship with them.

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That's why Russian forces are being so careful and avoiding using Air and Artillery, and that's why Ukrainian forces (that purged ethnic Russian) are using civilians as human shields.


Ah, now that completely explains the Volnovakha situation and how the Azov were using the civilian buildings for cover as a tank ambush and why Putin had that area lightly shelled.

I imagine that's why certain areas are on the receiving end of some missile strikes, but only sparingly so.


According to that doctrine, taking East Ukraine would create a more stable scenario and would improve the relations between Russia and Europe mid and long term. And I personally agree, there's a proverb that say "good fences makes good neighbors". East Ukraine is the Russian fence.


Hmm, that does make sense. The timing of this is all weird because I'm not sure why Putin didn't pull the trigger on this maneuver sooner? What changed between 2014 and 2022 that he decided to ramp up the move? Or rather, why now? But I guess it doesn't matter... and like you mention, it's best this thing is over and done with quickly.

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Good post. I haven’t seen this spelled out either. Just knew there were financial interests relating to ports and oil.

The buffer zone makes sense. Shame we can’t build a 1500mi buffer zone between the US and the anti US Democrat party.

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I posted the video several times.

Here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE

Bottom line: financial and strategical resources.

Russia NEEDS to grab East Ukraine (gas, petroleum, most of the Ukraine's industry) along with Crimea.

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Russia feels it isn't respected with it's oil wealth and criminal authoritarianism. Ukraine wants to join the European Union. Putin feels humiliated. So he claims Ukraine threatens its (own)Russian ethnics amongst its borders, which Russia now refuses to recognize.

In yesterday's public opinion poll 70%+ Russians believe their country will attack Poland.

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Now that is I would call "fake news", and clearly propaganda as well.

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In yesterday's public opinion poll 70%+ Russians believe their country will attack Poland.

Fake News.

This is the exact wording and result:
https://activegroup.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Слайд5-5.jpg

Whatever western media you used, they lied, both about:

1. The wording. It wasn't 'attacking' but 'extending influence (including military means)'. US is right now military supporting a proxy war in Ukraine to extend their influence in Europe. You can say it's wrong, but then it should be wrong for US too to mess in Ukraine to keep their influence in Europe, otherwise it's a double standard.

2. The numbers. The answer was positive for 30% of total, and for 40% of those who answered that question (so about a 10% chose not to answer it). What you can't do is to add both numbers. That's Fake News.

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I don't even need to know that to know it is fake. Poland is NATO, it is totally different, otherwise why would Ukraine joining NATO even an issue?

I don't think 70% of Russians are that stupid. Can't say the same to whoever believed that.

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Poland is NATO for now. Western countries are in decline. Decline usually leads to atomization. Each one going their own is just a matter of time.

Chances are Europe will adopt a neutral position in the US-China conflict and will abandon NATO in 2-3 decades.

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I would say that before the Russian invasion, but I think NATO is strengthening now. Germany ordering F-35 I think is a part of it.

Also even NATO disappears over time EU is likely to establish an European defence union in it's place, base on the current "Common Security and Defence Policy".

Chances are Europe will adopt a neutral position in the US-China conflict.

That is probably wise, considering US blocking Nord Stream 2 is screwing with Germany, also taking major Australian defence orders from France, and angling to take the additional Indonesian order of Rafale jets from France as well. US's hostility towards EU was quite clear, it is not just China is a potential challenger of US, EU is already a challenger. Weakening and breaking up EU is clearly in US interest. I think to US NATO should not disappear, EU should.

Fighting with China does not benefit EU one bit, only US. I hardly think EU is that keen.

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