Nearly half of the nation's approximately 2 million farm workers lack legal status, according to the departments of Labor and Agriculture, as well as many dairy and meatpacking workers.
Farmers have a legal option for hiring labor with the H-2A visa program, which allows employers to bring in an unlimited number of seasonal workers if they can show there are not enough U.S. workers willing, qualified and available to do the job.
The program has grown over time, with 378,000 H-2A positions certified by the Labor Department in 2023, three times more than in 2014, according to agency data.
But that figure is only about 20% of the nation's farm workers, according to the USDA. Many farmers say they cannot afford the visa's wage and housing requirements. Others have year-round labor needs that rule out the seasonal visas.
Some people I talk to feel that they are entitled to have an easy to exploit "underclass" of people who perform cheap labor for them to keep prices low. This is why they are opposed to raising the minimum wage or having any minimum wage at all.
Growing, producing, harvesting and moving food is extremely important, a living wage should be paid for all of those people who do that kind of work. Don't want to pay someone a living wage to make your food, then make it yourself, right?
Regardless of what side your on, do you want to see every illegal farm worker deported?
I think Trump will fold on deporting all illegals just like he did on prosecuting Clinton and building the wall. Does anyone think Trump will actually go through with farm worker deportations?
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Yes, deport illegal aliens. But my question was, do you think Trump will side with the law as it is written, or side with the farmers that want cheap labor and keep the illegals in the country?
I think Trump will keep the illegal work force in place on the farms.
This is a tough issue with no easy answers. I live in a small town surrounded by farms. I know some farm owners personally. They have a very hard time getting people to actually work. They show up drunk or high or not at all.
If illegals are willing to work, put a system in place to get them their green cards. Make farmers pay them a decent wage.
Did you read what this idiot just posted? He is seriously trying to claim that Kamala is tougher on the border than Trump. Does he really think anyone is going to believe his bullshit?
There are millions of Americans who would do farm work for good wages despite your anecdotal evidence. You say it yourself, make farmers pay a decent wage. Why aren't they already paying them a decent wage? Because cheap labour provided by illegal workers have driven the wages down to a level not considered decent. Deport illegals, pay decent wages , entice American workers.
I am not saying that no Americans would not do farm work for decent wages. Don’t know that there are millions. Where is your evidence?
I actually do not even know what these farmers were paying. I was just trying to point out that many Americans have crappy work ethics. Or maybe it is just where I live.
I have “anecdotal evidence” from all the jobs I have held in this town. Besides my regular job, I have a part time restaurant job. I cannot even remember in the past two years how many employees have come and gone. They call in sick or do not show up at all. Many Americans just do not want to WORK. There are plenty of able bodies people in this town with EBT cards, just hanging out with their cell phones, tattoos and cigarettes.
As much as Americans should come first, many do not want to work. If people want to come here and work, there needs to be a way to help them. Of course do it legally. One of our cooks at the restaurant just got his citizenship last summer. He did it legally. And the man works incredibly long hours. I admire that.
You ask for evidence of my claims yet provide nothing but anecdotes yourself. Where's your evidence? I don't think your anecdotes are enough of a reason to let millions of illegals stay in the country.
My evidence is in what I observe and deal with at work. Or doesn’t personal experience count for diddly squat?
I don’t think we are on opposing sides. I definitely want legal immigration.
But the reality is that immigrants ( in any country) are the ones who do the boring, dangerous or hardest menial jobs. I live in what was coal country. Who do you think the miners were back in the early 1900’s? A lot of my ancestors from Central Europe, the Irish too.
I do not believe in giving welfare benefits and everything else to illegals. But there has to be a middle ground. Many people come here desperately looking for work. There should be a way to admit them and allow them to take the jobs that, face reality, many Americans refuse to do.
The middle ground is they enter the country legally, get a green card and work legally like you said. If they've already entered the country illegally then they are willing to break other laws.
Yeah I get you, there nothing wrong with playing devil's advocate and I do it fairly often myself. Sorry if I came off as a bit hostile, it wasn't really my intention but I can get animated and be a blunt twat occasionally.
Not at all. More illegals entered the USA while Trump was president compared to the number deported by Trump. The same president who refused to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it will not deport a significant number of illegals. It will make him look bad to his big business buddies if he takes away their cheap labor.
"Refused to build a wall"? That's pure Democrat lying. Every obstacle--legal, political, and financial--was thrown in Trump's way by Democrats to prevent a wall being built. Then they lie and say he "refused" to do build it. Democrats live in a psychological fantasy world of lies.
Trump promised to build a wall. Trump did not promise to build a wall as long as the democrats allowed him to do so. Trump's failure obviously meant that Trump lied.
Do you really think Trump was so stupid as to think no one would stand in his way when it came time to build the wall and make Mexico pay for it?
Ranb is a very special kind of stupid. He/she states that he/she cannot vote for Trump because Trump apparently isn’t conservative enough yet openly defends far left policies.
Ranb is as transparent as glass, you'd think the embarrassment of literally every prediction they made about Trump being arse-backwards would send them into hiding but they seem quite proud to make these retarded claims. Adds a whole new spin on the phrase Ignorance is bliss
Which far left policies have I defended? You cannot name a single one and prove it. The MAGA says the RKBA is a leftist policy though, is that what you're talking about?
They will not if Trump has anything to say about it. Why did Trump let millions of illegals remain in the USA from 2017 to 2021? If Trump was unwilling or unable to do anything about all of them back then, why would he do anything differently in 2025?
The thing that irks me is that they're saying they're sending back the ones who are breaking the law, first. I'm sorry, but coming into the country illegally IS breaking the law.
Exactly, then some will try to muddy the waters and claim they're not illegal immigrants they're seeking asylum, well they can be deported then seek asylum through the correct channels can't they.
Overstaying a visa or entering illegally (at least for the first time) is a civil violation, not a criminal violation. Do you think the non-violent civil violators should be deported prior to the violent illegal aliens?
I think one of the things they're going to do is make it illegal to employ illegals again. They used to do that. We'll see what happens. You want specifics, and I'm not part of the transition team, so I can't help you. I only know that someone who actually sees violent illegals and illegals driving down wages as a problem is better than Biden/Harris. You are either argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or you think otherwise.
Verification of status has been a thing since 1986. But even Trump ignored the law so he could hire illegals. What makes you think Trump is going to do anything different this time around?
I made it very clear that I think Trump will do little or nothing to address the problem of illegal immigration.
If Trump thought hiring illegals was a problem, then why does Trump hire illegals?
It goes without saying that it would have to be enforced. That Thomas Homan guy sounds like he doesn't intend to mess around. Trump doesn't have to pussy-foot to make liberals happy this time around. Again, that Homan guy sounds serious!
"But how can we do this and not separate families?" a reporter whined.
"Deport the children with the adults," Border Czar Homan said.
He sounds serious.
The one thing I will always remember about the pandemic was someone posting about a couple of people in his office when they heard about the upcoming lockdowns. They were seriously jumping up and down with glee: "There goes Trump's economy! The only thing he can get elected on, and it's going down the tubes!"
So there's that -- even intelligent Democrats knew that before the pandemic, he had a great economy. He listened to Fauci and Birx and flushed it. But until then, we had cheap gas and a booming economy. Too bad for the Dems, the minorities that they love to set against one another and claim they're going to help -- then don't, because they need to claim they're going to help them in another four years -- were awakened to the fact that whatever The View or MSNBC told them, they and their families did better under Trump.
So remember when Trump said he could do anything per the Constitution? This included forcing the governors to keep the economy open and prohibiting lock downs.
I was doing better prior to Trump's election and after Trump left office. Primarily because of the pandemic that Trump mismanaged. My net worth is increasing every month, even in retirement.
The increased inflation during Biden's term limited the increase in my net worth, but it never went down. While inflation was lower during Trump's term, it is hard to inflate prices when the economy is so depressed by the lock downs that Trump so willingly allowed. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
How nice for you that your experience was different from the majority of Americans.
Biden had a government and a media devoted to gaslighting the public. "Don't believe your lying eyes," those of us who went to the store were told. "The economy is fantastic!" Unfortunately, those of us of the Great Unwashed were hit by sticker shock.
But you did well. Mazel tov.
I will agree with you that Trump never should have listened to the Dems, Fauci, and Birx. They kept screaming that if we didn't lock down, keep kids home, wear masks, etc., we were all granny killers. He should have fired them all.
But the way you argue, you'll probably tell me you don't remember any of that, and find articles and government stats that claim it never happened. Ah, well. The rest of us lived through it and remember it. And the insistence on telling us that we didn't experience what we did, or because you were one of the lucky ones who were doing so well you weren't touched by it, is something conservatives are hoping y'all will continue to say for the next four years. It's what got Trump elected.
I remember all of the infighting. I was also touched by it.
But the president is the big man in charge, he should not be allowed to just say it was someone else's fault. As Truman once said, "the buck stops here".
Why is it that the MAGA are so eager to make excuses for Trump? You all treat him like he was a doormat and not the president.
You want me to think that Trump was good for me and other Americans, he was not.
That is the point. Trump will not deprive businesses of their cheap labor. Trump refused to deport them all the last time he was in office. He will not do so this time. Why do you think Trump is going to do anything different?
Are you going to get a farm labor job after the deportation starts? If they start that is.
I'm just saying that the whining I'm hearing now is coming from Democrats who want their slave labor. Not a good look, btw.
"Let me guess, you only eat pure MAGA food that is unsullied by illegal immigrant hands?" That's a silly argument. I'd say it was beneath you, but obviously it isn't.
I live on a farm. I grow much of my own food. Even disabled, I can do it.
Quite frankly, we don't actually need all the illegals picking the crops. It's gotten this way because of bad laws barring minors from the fields, and people who sit at home with a "Beulah, peel me a grape!" attitude about how they should get their produce. Once upon a time, people went out to farms and picked their own. Beulah may not be around to peel your grapes anymore.
Why did Biden/Harris leave the back door to America open to get so many illegals into this country? You're blaming Trump and stupidly saying that Trump won't deliver on his border promises because he wants slave labor. It's the DEMS who've let so many illegals in. They appear to be the ones who want the cheap labor. And when we talk about deportations there's always folks like you saying no one will pick the crops or do the work in housing, etc. if we don't have illegals to do it for us because they're not high-paying jobs. But as I told you, folks like you are going to have to lose that, "Beulah, peel me a grape!" attitude. There are lots of white people have done those jobs and continue to do them. They just don't expect to be living high off the hog while they're doing them.
I am also blaming Trump for doing the same things that most other president do.
Of course Trump is not going to deliver on his promises. He proved that during his first term. What promises did Trump deliver on? The wall is not complete, Clinton is still not in prison. Illegals are still in the country.
The desire for cheap labor transcends party lines. It of course Democrats and Republicans who want cheap labor. But this is the Trump section of the forum, so I'm talking about Trump. Trump just got re-elected and is making more promises he has no intention of keeping. But I might be wrong.
I've lived long enough to know that the second term is different from the first, because the President in question won't be seeking reelection.
He won't keep all his promises, no. The Dems will give him fierce pushback, and he doesn't have such a commanding majority in either House. Some bills he wants passed will likely be defeated. But he'll damage his party if he doesn't finish the wall and at least get out the illegals who are dangerous criminals and who are taking jobs from Americans.
I'm saying that it isn't conservatives who are saying every field worker needs to have a "living wage," and we need our little brown underclass to keep us in avocado toast. Of course, when the lovelies on MSNBC say it, it isn't racist at all. Not a bit.
We've gotten to the "Too silly! Too silly!" part of the argument, and the big foot from Monty Python has come down.
Glad you did so well for the last four years. Trump's victory must have been a complete mystery to you.
Get ready for some damage then. Trump will not finish the wall. He has no reason to.
No illegal ever took a job from an American. The business owners fired the American, then hired someone else to replace him or her. Americans only have themselves to blame for illegals working in the USA.
Prior to Obama's election, I thought America was too racist to elect a black president, I was wrong. Last month I thought American was not stupid enough to give Trump another chance at wrecking the country, I was wrong again.
So who is hiring the illegals to increase their profit margins? It is GOP and Democrats. You are wrong to say that is isn't the conservatives doing this.
It has to be done and Trump better deliver. The appointed border czar is a man of steel, I cannot wait to see him in action! Starting with the governor of Denver lol
Why would Trump deliver? What is the MAGA going to do, refuse to vote for him next time? Trump did not deliver last time he was in office. Only the chumps think he will do better this time.
No, the chumps thought he was going to jail. Remember how you thought that? And what happened? Oh yeah he got voted POTUS elect and is now in a stronger political position than he's ever been lol
Try to be more positive dude. Trump is obviously very popular and he is a strong figure, look at the world Outlook, markets are going crazy over Trump's victory, corpse Biden meanwhile is trying to drag us all into a war in the middle of nowhere
Trump was very popular when he refused to build a wall and get Mexico to pay for it and when he had a gun grab instead of supporting our civil rights. I will not be positive in the presence of such a downer of a person.
Head ups, when Ranb uses the term “gun grab” he is referring Bump Stocks which is not a gun. In the meantime Kamala openly said she was in favor of a mandatory buy back which Ranb suspiciously doesn’t really seem to express a lot of outrage towards.
Trump and said bump stocks are guns. Are you calling Trump a liar? How is it that you don't understand how gun control works in the USA? Here is the proof that bump stocks were legally classified as firearms from 2019 to 2024, thanks to Trump.
Definition of gun: a device that propels a projectile using explosive or pressure force. Can be rifles, handguns and shotguns or they can be larger canons.
And no I’m not calling Trump a liar, I’m calling you a liar.
Oh, so you're one of those people who claims that they decide what a gun is and not the government? You are more powerful than Congress or the president?
I supplied the definition of a machine gun as far as bump stocks go, do you believe it or not?
Trump had the authority to define a bump stock as a firearm. Do you think that is not true?
No I’m using the literal definition you doofus. Oh I see so if the federal government says something it must be true? Do you have any idea how moronic that sounds? Everyone on here thinks you’re a joke, Kamala is a joke, your cult is a joke and you people are going to be out of office and in the backseat for a while unless you get your heads out of your asses and ditch the cult behavior.
So if Trump or any other president (they are part of the federal government) defines a firearm, then it is moronic?
Why do you claim that your definition of a gun is better than the definition provided by the government as stated in federal law? Unless you're quoting the US code to define a firearm, your claim is just something you made up, accurate or not.
(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
As you can see, in the USA a firearm is more than something that "propels a projectile using explosive or pressure force".
The feds also include silencers and various gun parts in their definition of firearms.
You’re the one making these absurd claims you nitwit. You are arguing against the literal definition of a gun. A bump stock cannot fire a projectile, it’s an accessory not a firearm. Yeah try robbing a bank with just a bump stock, I guess you could hit people with it, derp derp. Kamala said she was in favor of mandatory buy backs, the bitch wanted to overthrow the second amendment and the Supreme Court. Trump needs to throw her in prison so that she can never rise to power again and confiscate guns.
[–] KingBob (2177) 2 days ago
Oh I see so if the federal government says something it must be true? Do you have any idea how moronic that sounds?
Kamala said she was in favor of mandatory buy backs,
These are not my claims. I'm posting links to federal law, one of them was the federal regulation that Trump ordered the ATF to amend, as the Constitution allows him to do.
Tell me more about how Trump sounds moronic when he ordered the ATF to classify bump stocks as contraband machine guns so that he could have them confiscated from half a million law abiding Americans?
Yes, everyone knows Harris wanted to grab our guns. Why are you totally in favor of Trump also grabbing guns? Not only did he have a gun grab in 2019, he proposed gun confiscation without due process. And he wants to raise the age limit to buy certain guns.
Are you also claiming that Biden is not a gun grabber because forced reset triggers are not contraband machine guns as Biden defined them? Tell me more about how you're kissing GOP and Democrats gun grabber butts.
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No these are your claims, you are spewing a bunch of nonsense. I’ve noticed you have yet to denounce Kamala for her attempted mandatory buy backs? Man up and denounce her you coward.
I have always denounced all gun grabs on this forum. I am opposed to all anti-gun politicians and have posted links to their anti-gun agendas.
Why are you so in favor of trump's anti-gun agenda that you deny it even exists?
Are you also claiming that Biden is not a gun grabber because forced reset triggers are not contraband machine guns as Biden defined them?
Tell me more about how Trump sounds moronic when he ordered the ATF to classify bump stocks as contraband machine guns so that he could have them confiscated from half a million law abiding Americans?
But she attempted a gun grab, her failing is irrelevant. During the elections before her humiliating loss shouldn’t you have been spreading the word that Kamala wanted to come after our guns? I have yet to find a single post where you did that. You are such a coward and you’re unpatriotic.
Also I forgot to update you on Laken Riley’s killer being found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. That must really be a further rub of salt in the wound for you.
Calling for a gun grab is not the same as actually attempting a gun grab. Harris lacked the capacity to actually get a gun buyback in Congress as a bill and allow it to do anything but die in committee.
Why did I need to spread the word about Harris when everyone and their mother knew that Harris was anti-gun and wanting to come after our guns. Were my posts going to convince you that Harris was coming after our guns? I doubt it.
Why would the sentencing of any killer offend me at all?
No Trump can't still go to prison in 2029 because to deter that the entire corrupt DOJ is going to be replaced and those who engaged in corrupt lawfare are going to jail for a long time.
And any other predictions about Trump you care to make may as well have a streaky skidmark across them from where I wipe my arse on them.
If Trump can replace the entire corrupt DOJ in 2025, the next president can replace them again with people who comply with the law instead of kissing Trump ass, like the new ones that Trump brings in.
Yes if you are an illegal immigrant you should be deported because you are here illegally. Whatever repercussions that has on the “farm workers” that you’re inventing are the faults of Brandon and Kamala who allowed the illegals in in the first place.
On that we agree. Do you think Trump will deport a significant number of illegals? Why or why not?
Illegals have been part of the the American landscape since long before Biden and Harris were elected. More illegals entered the USA than Trump deported while he was president. This makes Trump part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Whether or not they have always been here is irrelevant you dishonest little shit. They are not supposed to be here, they should be deported. No one is above the law.
Whether that’s true or not is irrelevant. Illegal immigration was much much much lower under Trump than Kamala and Brandon. Trump did not endorse illegal immigration unlike Brandon and Kamala, the fact that it did occur on his watch behind his back is irrelevant.
We had record low illegal border crossings under Trump, if he just gets the numbers back down to the levels of his first term that will be good enough for me.
Trump says he will deport them all. Merely lowering the levels to what he was happy with when he was president last time is not good enough. Trump is just telling another lie.
Yep right there, they all of a sudden started going up a lot in 2021.
Oh I see, so if Trump doesn’t lower rates enough that’s no good? So we should have just stuck with Kamala who would not have done a thing about illegal immigration? I refuse to believe you are stupid enough to believe that.
If Trump does not keep his promise he is a liar. If Trump keeps on employing illegals, then that's no good. If Trump keeps on protecting those who employ illegals instead of putting them in prison, that is no good. Get it now?
For crying out loud, are you seriously trying to assert that Kamala and Brandon were tougher on illegals than Trump? That’s a load of shit and I think you know that. I just showed you that illegal border crossings skyrocketed under Brandon, all you’ve perpetuated are irrelevant conspiracy theories. We were safer under Trump, man up and admit it you coward. Tom Homan is actually seriously about enforcing border laws and Kamala needs to be held accountable for her role in Laken Riley’s murder and every other innocent, law abiding citizen who was murdered and/or raped by one of Kamala’s illegal immigrants.
Illegal immigration was at record low levels under the Trump administration. Kamala and Brandon destroyed all the progress Trump made and actively aided and abetted a foreign invasion at the border, which is literally treason.
You are a liar and you are a far left Kamala supporter, don’t even try denying it anymore.
EDIT: Your source is dishonest. Deportations from interior enforcement went down under Kamala and Brandon, the only area where it was higher than the Trump years is border deportations in 2024 https://econofact.org/immigrant-deportations-trends-and-impacts, and geez it’s almost as if illegal immigration goes down, that would mean deportations would go down, derp derp. Dumbass. Under Brandon and Kamala, illegal immigration went up and deportations went down.
Also your other “source” is a blog that does not give any specifics, not to mention it comes from a source that hates Trump. You are really drowning here. Quit spewing your lies and I have legitimate reasons to question your patriotism.
The data contradicts all of your lies. As for your second comments I never said that and you are arguing a strawman.
We won, you lost and hopefully your idols Kamala and Brandon are put in prison by President Trump. We need to make sure no one as stupid and radical as those two fuckers ever takes power again.
Yes you do, you are a hardcore liberal cultist and you will never go against the nonsense your cult has brainwashed you with no matter how idiotic it sounds. Trump supporters are not cultists, they are just patriotic Americans who want the American Dream to be available to everyone. Trump is a moderate who wants to unite the country. You people are a bunch of butthurt obstructionist, insurrectionist domestic terrorists. CPS should seriously be looking into everyone who voted Kamala to see if it’s safe for their children to be around them.
Yes, everyone knows this. It has been talked about here for a long time. But surely you understand that the desire for a gun grab is not actually the same as grabbing guns?
Harris will attempt to grab our guns if she is ever elected as president. That is a fact. Trump is a gun grabber and wants to grab more guns, that is also a fact.
That was a Deep State Policy/Mandate which goes with every presidency until the DS is abolished.
Trump is not a one-man army that can accomplish things without the approval and/or cooperation of others.
Never forget that they tried to impeach Trump for simply making a phone call to the president of Ukraine.
In other words, a president can be removed …
Better to appear optically to temporarily go along with a mandate/policy than be removed and have others forcibly and permanently take away your “full” rights.
If not for Trump, the lockdowns would have lasted years and our country would have been destroyed.
Try applying some discernment regardless of how things appear or sound.
The lying MSM has impeded your capacity to discern and think for yourself.
Kamala openly stated she was in favor of mandatory buy backs, you’re too much of a chikcenshit to denounce it. A bump stock is not a firearm, you cannot fire a projectile with a bump stock only. It’s a gun accessory just like a scope. Whether the federal government classified them as firearms is irrelevant, they don’t fit the definition you doofus. Also for your premise to be true that would have to mean you’d agree with Trump. So is Trump correct or not? Man up and answer the question.
I denounce all gun grabs, no matter who wants them. But you deny that Trump is a gun grabber.
Trump said a bump stock is a gun. Do you believe Trump when he said that, or was Trump lying, again?
The government defines what a gun is. Why do you think that you are superior to the government when it comes to defining how a thing is legally controlled?
Trump defined a bump stock as a contraband machine gun. He actually did this whether I agreed with him or not. I was completely opposed to Trump's gun grab. But it seems that you were not. You and Trump are both anti-gun zealots.
I have always voiced my opposition to Trump's gun grab since 2018. Why are you suggesting that I was not?
So are you going to denounce Kamala’s gun grab or not? Right now all I’m here are excuses and deflections.just own up to the fact that you’re a Kamala cultist you aren’t fooling anyone
No you didn’t, you said you don’t support any gun grabs yet you tap danced around having to call out Kamala for hers because you’re a little chickenshit.
Yet even in that very post you still won’t denounce Kamala. Sorry pal, but I’m not buying it. Maybe if you called out Kamala with even 1/10th of the enthusiasm that you have spread disinformation about Trump I might believe you.
Do I really need to mention every anti-gun politician that exists in the USA? No. It is good enough that I oppose them all and say so.
But here I am telling you that I oppose Harris, but you keep on supporting Trump by claiming that his gun grab that he accomplished by classifying bump stocks as contraband guns, does not count because the "law according to KingBob' supersedes actual federal regulations.
Almost everyone, except for you, understands how stupid your claim sounds. You should too.
"The government defines what a gun is. Why do you think that you are superior to the government when it comes to defining how a thing is legally controlled?"
Are you officially claiming a bump stock alone is a projectile weapon?
"The government defines what a gun is." The goverment can be 100% retarded a ridiculous amount of the time.
No, I am not claiming a bump stock is a projectile weapon. But almost everyone else understands that an object does not have to be capable of firing a projectile to be legally a firearm. Why don't you?
Surely you understand that the government defines far more than projectile firing objects to be firearms. This would include silencers, silencer parts and certain parts to assemble a machine gun.
Also, not all projectile firing objects are considered firearms in the USA.
Whether or not the government is retarded, they still make the rules. Do you agree?
The only guns that Biden has grabbed are forced reset triggers. Would you argue that Biden is not a gun grabber?
The data contradicts all of your lies. As for your second comments I never said that and you are arguing a strawman.
We won, you lost and hopefully your idols Kamala and Brandon are put in prison by President Trump. We need to make sure no one as stupid and radical as those two fuckers ever takes power again.
The advantage of being old:
I'm old enough to know that in the old days there were Mexicans who got Green Cards, followed the crops, and when the season was over, they went back to Mexico to be with their families.
People don't even ask why school isn't year 'round everywhere. Why are kids let out every summer? Because, in the old days, we kids picked crops, too. We picked all kinds of berries and beans. Some picked cucumbers after school in the fall. It was a yearly ritual. Folks wonder how one income supported entire families -- the kids made money enough to pay for their school clothes in the fall.
But it's so important to say that we have to have a "living wage," or that it's impossible to pick our crops without a huge army of illegals, as if we always had that huge army of illegals picking the crops. We didn't.
In the old days, since kids were allowed to pick in the fields (apparently some lawmakers who wanted to start making illegals the standard for picking crops made a law against minors being in the fields, but that can be reversed), no one expected it to be a "living wage." The American kids were the majority of the folks in the fields back when I was picking, btw. The Green Card holders who followed the crops and then went back to Mexico were supplementing the family income down there. They knew they were going to be on subsistence wages up here so they could send money to their family back home. The exchange rate must have made it worth it.
I never said I wasn't on a living wage, NOW. I'm doing well. God has blessed me richly, even though I'm just a disabled widow.
But again, I wasn't making this kind of money when I was an 8-year-old kid in the berry fields. Nor did I expect to. I got paid by the flat. Nobody was getting rich getting paid by the flat. But the kids -- again, the majority out there -- often made enough to pay for their school clothes for the upcoming year, which helped a lot in the family economy. People wonder how folks got by with just one income and five kids in the good old days, and that's one of the major reasons -- the kids helped with the family economy. Did they, by themselves, earn THE living wage for the household? Of course not.
Why should picking crops pay a living wage? It didn't used to, and the world didn't fall apart.
You know, you can become a gleaner if this is that important to you, or if you're interested in picking your own food there are lots of U-Pick farms out there. Cut out the middle man. Pick all the food you're going to eat for a year, can it, freeze it, or freeze-dry it, and you're set. I know lots of people who do precisely that if they don't live on a farm and grow their own. Until my disability sidelined me, I grew enough to feed myself and the neighbors. My husband and I would pick it and give it away. People with that Christian attitude aren't as prevalent as I'd like, but there are people like us out there.
You'll be surprised what you'd find if you drove out into the countryside. LOTS of U-Pick places. If Trump actually does deport all the illegals, or, for agriculture, only takes in those who'll come legally and seasonally, U-Pick might become much easier to find for you city folk. Then fewer imported workers would be needed.
Every job is "important" if you want to look at it that way. That's the reason they have people filling those job -- they need them there. The ones I did as a kid, the ones I did as a teen were "important." It's just that in the old days, we realized that some jobs were entry-level, the ones you get when you're living at home with your parents. Some are the jobs you get when you're trying to supplement the family income. As you work your way up the ladder, gaining skills that show you're worth a little more, you'll be paid more. Eventually, you will have secured the skills and knowledge necessary to earn what you call a "living wage."
I know you'll just parrot that the job is important therefore it deserves a "living wage," as defined by you, I guess. But I'll try to make it simpler. One of the first jobs I had was in a print shop bindery. They desperately needed me, because the jobs weren't going to inspect themselves, hand themselves to the trimmer, or pack themselves. But I didn't get a living wage, because it didn't take a lot of skill. The printers made more money, for what ought to be obvious reasons. The fellow who ran the WEB press was the highest paid man on the floor. Bigger printer, more complicated -- even did its own trimming. It was such an old shop that when I first went to work there, they had a man setting type with a Merganthaller. That fellow had very specialized knowledge. I have no idea what he was paid, but since the local newspaper didn't get out without him, I hope it was a lot.
But anyone that they could replace with anyone they could grab off the street was NOT going to have what you want to call a "living wage." I know you don't seem to like capitalism, but that's the way it works.
I do like capitalism. I profited from capitalism greatly since 1975 to 2023.
I would like to see what kind of hoops you will jump through, in order to claim that harvesting food, that people eat, is not important enough for a living wage.
How to say you didn't read and comprehend without saying you didn't read and comprehend.
Of course, I did call it that you would just keep repeating that someone who's doing a job an 8-year-old can do should get a "living wage" for it because it's "important." As I said, all jobs are "important." What a person gets paid is by his skill and knowledge. You don't refute this, you just keep saying that field workers are so important they should have that undefined "living wage."
The people who've demanded a "living wage" in the fast food industry have ensured that they've lost their jobs to automation. People like you who think the folks who pick beans should have a "living wage" have pushed seed companies to create beans that put on a single flush of blooms and can be picked by machines instead of people. They'll do the same thing with berries and every other kind of produce if you have your way. So go ahead and demand that "living wage." It's the quickest way to get the people you claim to care about thrown out of work.
Try removing cows from the equation, then come back and tell me if the illegal immigrants still managed to produce anything. Which one is it heavily dependent on?
As if legals couldn't do the work, you people are so pathetic. If an illegal immigrant can walk in the country and do it then it's not a skilled job and anyone at all can do it.
If illegals are not producing anything, then why are they paid to work on farms?
Why not remove the cows? It would make room for twice as many illegal immigrants then, I bet they will produce twice as much!
Why do you think only unskilled people cross the border to find work?
Who mentioned unskilled people? I said it wasn't a skilled job and anyone can do it. Why do you immediately associate unskilled labour with unskilled illegal immigrants?
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