So much for The Art of the Deal!
Trump wants to deny health insurance to children with cancer and destroy the lives of over 800,000 children brought here by their parents. What an ogre!
Trump REFUSED to sign a bipartisan bill to keep the Federal government running. The REPUBLICAN run Congress, REPUBLICAN run senate and REPUBLICAN president are incompetent.
I guess Trump is playing golf since it's the weekend.
Yes, the master negotiator, the stable genius, the billionaire business man has shut down the federal government on his first anniversary in Office. It's all his fault - just like he blamed Obama in 2013 when Cruz master-minded the shutdown over Obamacare.
But this time it's different - Republicans are in charge of all branches of government, and he still can't negotiate a deal.
Poor federal workers who will be going without pay.
i never met a federal worker i didn't loathe
i never met a federal worker i didn't loatheWhy oh why would you say that about the Military AND your president? I'm sorry, you've never met either.
That isn't fair. If they didn't work for government, nobody would hire them!
shareMany years ago, I worked for the Federal government during a shutdown. Many of my coworkers were in a panic because they lived paycheck to paycheck. At that time, salaries were very low. I heard talk about trying to make loans available so they could pay their bills during the shutdown.
Many Americans forget that they are normal men and women who are struggling like the rest of us and are trying to raise families and pay their bills on time. This shutdown is a hardship on them, contractors with government contracts, tourists, and citizens who need services like getting passports.
Poor federal workers who will be going without pay.
So it's an unpaid, unplanned 'vacation' these people are on, who still have to pay mortgages, rents, utilities, car loans, credit card bills, college loans, kids tuitions, etc. while on this unplanned, unpaid vacation as they live paycheck to paycheck.
Mmmmm - that shouldn't be a problem for them, now should it?
"So it's an unpaid, unplanned 'vacation' these people are on, who still have to pay mortgages, rents, utilities, car loans, credit card bills, college loans, kids tuitions, etc. while on this unplanned, unpaid vacation as they live paycheck to paycheck."
Yea it sucks that their "PAYED" vacation checks will be delayed but they still get PAYED for their time off. Stop trying to imply they arn't going to get payed when the government starts up in 5 or so days.
It is paid vacation cause they will get a fatter check when the shutdown is over.
Don't try to mislead people into thinking these poor government worksers are out of a job.
"Mmmmm - that shouldn't be a problem for them, now should it?"
I never said it wasn't a problem but you have a habit of exaggerating the situation to make it look worse then it really is. Its deceptive that you gave the impression the government workers were temporarily laid off. I refuted by saying when the government starts up these people will get payed for the time they were not at work.
I kinda am curious how old are you Doggie daddy?
Do you even remember how the other government shutdowns played out?
"Yea it sucks that their "PAYED" vacation checks will be delayed but they still get PAYED for their time off. Stop trying to imply they arn't going to get payed when the government starts up in 5 or so days."
It does. How many of these people planned on taking this 'vacation' with a delayed paycheck?
"It is paid vacation cause they will get a fatter check when the shutdown is over."
Did you ever think maybe they want to work this week, and have a regular paycheck to pay this week's debts, as they work paycheck to paycheck?
"Don't try to mislead people into thinking these poor government worksers are out of a job."
No one is misleading anyone except you pretending all these workers are taking a vacation.
"I never said it wasn't a problem but you have a habit of exaggerating the situation to make it look worse then it really is. Its deceptive that you gave the impression the government workers were temporarily laid off. I refuted by saying when the government starts up these people will get payed for the time they were not at work. "
Not exaggerating - telling it as it's being reported. These people were not planning on taking this time out of work, and many work paycheck-to-paycheck. Getting their pay AFTER this stoppage is over isn't helping them while they're out of work over the next few days. I can't understand why you're in denial.
"I kinda am curious how old are you Doggie daddy?
Do you even remember how the other government shutdowns played out?"
I'm old enough to recall the shutdown under Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton and the shutdown under Obama.
Not exaggerating - telling it as it's being reported. These people were not planning on taking this time out of work, and many work paycheck-to-paycheck. Getting their pay AFTER this stoppage is over isn't helping them while they're out of work over the next few days. I can't understand why you're in denial.
"Which is a far cry from your original claim they arn't being payed."
I said they aren't being payed for this week - their unplanned vacation - and many of them live paycheck to paycheck. You keep saying they're going to get one big paycheck at the end, for the pay they've missed and I keep saying that doesn't help them with this week's expenses.
"And the second one only effected 300,000"
ONLY 300,000 workers? What's the minimum number of effected employees required to gain some empathy from you? I'm sure not one of those 300,000 employees thought of it in terms of 'only'.
"Even out of all this you want to stick this on republicans when it is undeniably democrats that voted NO on the spending bill in the senate."
Check your facts again. There were Dems and some Repubs who voted NO on this bill, and there were some Dems and Repubs who voted yes. In the end, the Republican-controlled government couldn't even get 50 votes on this bill. And just last week, T-rump said he approved of the bipartisan bill presented to him - until his loony right wingers (Sen Cotton) told him not to approve it. So the ever-impressionable moron decided to change his mind within hours, baffling everyone.
And as T-rump said about Cruz's shut down a few years ago - A shutdown is always the President's fault. This one is on T-rump, the master negotiator.
Every ones back to work so it doesn't matter now does it.
ONLY 300,000 workers? What's the minimum number of effected employees required to gain some empathy from you? I'm sure not one of those 300,000 employees thought of it in terms of 'only'.
"Again it doesn't matter."
Yes, it does matter - when 300,000 innocent people are forced out of work (which you conveniently refer to as a 'vacation') it does indeed matter.
"Even if the number were 300 you were gonna whine and bitch "ONLY 300 Whats the Minimum number of effected employees required to gain some empathy from you. And they were off friday but back to work monday."
Yes, even if it was one worker I would whine and bitch. One innocent person forced out of work is one too many.
For the record:
No, they were not off Friday (the shutdown started at midnight, Saturday).
No, they were not back to work on Monday (the shutdown ended Monday afternoon).
They can't go back to work until T-rump signs off on the bill to officially end the shut-down, and who knows what he'll do.
They won't get back pay for the weekend or today unless T-rump signs off to OK this - and again, God knows what he will do. Someone (Cotton? Miller? Kelly?) may whisper in his ear and tell him not to do it - and he's so easily convinced, he may not.
But the fact is - Republicans controlled all of Government during this shut-down, and the self-proclaimed Master Negotiator could not cut a deal even when a bi-partisan bill was presented to him, and he first approved. This one's all T-rumps. Welcome to his second year of chaos.
Yes, even if it was one worker I would whine and bitch. One innocent person forced out of work is one too many.
"Thats kinda my point. I will go further and say you never gonna stop whining and bitching. Its in your leftiest natire. That fact that your not trolling the democrats the voted no on the bill shows issues with your credibility."
I'm not "trolling the Democrats" who voted no on the bill because this was T-rump's shut down and he needs to be credited with it - I guess as one of his year one accomplishments?
Sure we've had government shutdowns in recent history - many have lasted longer than this one. However, this is the first government shutdown in which ONE party has control of the White House, the House, and the Senate - and still couldn't avoid a shut-down.
I haven't yet mentioned the fact, either, that two Democratic senators proposed to keep the government funded on Friday night around 10:30 am
: one proposal was for a day, the other proposal was until Monday. Both times Republican Mitch McConnell objected - so the government shutdown promptly at 12:01 am Saturday.
You're an idiot.
shareLibtards are morons.
Trumps negotiating worked in the past cause the people he was dealing with were all about money and he held most of the cards when bullying deals with them but in politics its about power and staying in office that people are worried about not money.
the lives of over 800,000 children brought here by their parents. [/quote]
I'm pretty sure when the pressure came to deport these adults trump will eventually cave as he's more interested in blocking their path to citizenship rather then just deporting them. IE he and most of the GOP just don't want a new voting block of nearly 1 million people voting for the Democrat party. Lets face it thats what the democrats are after.
[quote]Trump REFUSED to sign a bipartisan bill to keep the Federal government running.
I don't believe Trump was ever a good negotiator. Common sense tells me he was doing something illegal with the Russians in order to get money since American banks would no longer lend to him for his projects.
Politicians accept money from lobbyists and support them over voters. It's all about money. Money is power. It should be illegal for politicians to receive money from companies and put a cap on what they can receive from individuals.
DACA already prevented citizenship. These children shouldn't be living with the threat of deportation over their heads. Trump could easily restore DACA which would allow both Houses to work on a budget now.
DACA supporters already voiced their anger at the Democratic Party for delaying DACA legislation which is why they're standing their ground this time.
Last week's Senate bipartisan immigration bill. McConnell was upset because Trump continued to change what he wanted in it. Stephen Miller is being blamed for changing Trump's mind.
Another problem is the extremist in the Republican Party. They're not only battling Democrats, but also themselves. Moderate and extremist Republicans want different things.
Politicians accept money from lobbyists and support them over voters. It's all about money. Money is power. It should be illegal for politicians to receive money from companies and put a cap on what they can receive from individuals.
Trump rescinded DACA which caused it to become an issue. Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall - so let THEM.
"Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) let loose about his frustrations with his newfound friend President Trump. Graham suggested they were on the verge of a bipartisan immigration deal at 10 a.m. Thursday, only to have Trump rip the rug from beneath it two hours later."
Trump is responsible for the government shutting down.
Another question is why haven't the Republican majority Senate and Congress finish their budget yet? Instead of a fourth Continuing Resolution, just pass a budget, address DACA and CHIP. In other words, work!
"Honest if democrats want something all they have to do is avoid insulting and bruise his ego. Trumps ego is his weakness."
French President Macron tried your tactic but it hasn't changed Trump's mind re: The Paris Climate Agreement yet so I'm skeptical.
BTW, nobody insults and bullies more than Trump. If you want respect then you have to give respect.
It's true that that politicians won't go against their own party agenda for money (your NRA example), but they will support special interests over voters. Both Republican and Democratic voters know this. Most people were against that tax break for the rich, but rich Republican donors threatened to not support future candidates so Republicans politicians rushed to pass it. they also tried to destroy the Affordable Care Act against the wishes of most of their own constituents, some Republican governors and the medical community
BTW, I'm criticizing BOTH parties for doing this. My local politicians are Democrats and they're constantly taking money from developers to screw over communities.
Trump is responsible for the government shutting down.
The GOP is blaming Trump too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/sen-graham-accuses-stephen-miller-for-lack-of-immigration-deal/
I believe six Republicans also voted no. Anyway, the Republicans are the majority in both houses and the White House. Their infighting and a president who is easily swayed by extremist nuts are the problem.
Just a reminder that we live in a democracy. There are three equal branches of government. Democrats nor Republican lawmakers need to grovel at the foot of Trump. He's not a king, nor dictator. If anything, moderate Republicans and Democrats should create legislation through compromise and give it to Trump to sign. If he doesn't sign it, then that will let the American people know who is preventing things from being accomplished.
Schumer agreed to the wall and Trump still said no. What the hell are you smoking?
shareI believe six Republicans also voted no. Anyway, the Republicans are the majority in both houses and the White House. Their infighting and a president who is easily swayed by extremist nuts are the problem.
What are you smoking the bill would have gone back to the house if that was the case instead schumer instructed all his democrats to vote no on the bill.
shareIt's a fair point. Not only do Republicans have control, their control pushed Schumer to agree to the Wall. Trump still said no. At some point you have to wonder if Trump wanted a shutdown. Maybe he's got a way to blame this one on Obama too, lol.
shareschumer didn't agree to the wall He promised in exchange for strong support for DACA he would open discussions for Wall funding.
Republicans don't have 60 votes in the senate nothing short of the nuclear option will allow the republicans to pass a bill with a simple majority. The democrats only needed 40 votes to block the bill thanks to the senate rules.
A few months back, Trump said he'd support DACA, but only IF it included funding for a wall (that was supposed to be paid for by Mexico). Pelosi and Schumer couldn't agree on that at the time. Last Friday, Schumer laid out a deal for Trump, finally agreeing on funding for the wall to gain Trump's support of DACA, the very thing Trump agreed to a few months ago. But now it wasn't good enough. Trump said no.
Oh, but it's not Trump's fault because republicans don't have the votes, right? They don't have the votes because they won't act without Trump. They are following a leader who doesn't know how to lead. He decides against his own agreement and republicans follow his decision, instituting a shutdown. lol.
All Trump has to do is tell republicans to go along with it and get the wall built. Maybe Trump doesn't actually want the wall built? Maybe republicans don't want the wall built either? Who knows. The doofus won't lead his party. Either that, or he wants a shutdown so he can blame the democrats. It's impossible to know what the hell is going on in that beanbag he calls a brain.
A few months back, Trump said he'd support DACA, but only IF it included funding for a wall (that was supposed to be paid for by Mexico). Pelosi and Schumer couldn't agree on that at the time. Last Friday, Schumer laid out a deal for Trump, finally agreeing on funding for the wall to gain Trump's support of DACA, the very thing Trump agreed to a few months ago. But now it wasn't good enough. Trump said no.
There was no giving of DACA. DACA was the standard. Meaning, it was already in place. A wall deal down the road on top of DACA is a wall deal for free. Trump wanted DACA to change so badly, and was willing to give nothing in return to change it. That's not how government works, unless you want the whole thing shut down.
Not to mention the Senate held up CHIP so they could save up the $1 trillion to pass the Trump tax cuts. Trump can't make a deal for shit. He thinks he can get everything automatically like he got his wealth from daddy.
Trump wanted DACA to change so badly, and was willing to give nothing in return to change it.
"So why would he need to trade anything when he has the power to kill it right off the bat."
Because they'd like to avoid using the nuclear option to keep the government open. The nuclear option is a political football that could be disastrous for republicans down the road depending how the 2018 midterms go, and then 2020.
Because they'd like to avoid using the nuclear option to keep the government open.
We were beyond the executive order portion of DACA. That was done in September, but with qualifiers to prevent Trump from getting burned. Repubs told Trump to hand it over to Congress to work out the details, and he did. Because those details had still not been hammered out, Schumer came in last minute to offer funding for the wall to keep DACA and avoid a shutdown.
So what I wrote is 100% accurate. Either repubs make a deal with Schumer (ie trade something) or do the nuclear option. Guess which route repubs took? A Schumer deal. Why? To avoid the nuclear option. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
Yes, Trump can hypothetically do a hard repeal via executive decision, but we're beyond that. Republicans talked him out of GOP suicide back in September.
Hand it over to congress is called imigration reform. If we want to get technical lets stop calling it DACA then.
share"Hand it over to congress is called imigration reform. If we want to get technical lets stop calling it DACA then."
No, dude. You're a bit lost here. Repubs made it clear to Trump that if he just nixed the whole DACA expansion, there'd be 800,000 dreamers with nowhere to go, and the GOP would take a hit because they literally have no solution to that problem. In other words, they repubsplained to Trump what a bonehead he was for thinking he could just end DACA on day one.
So last year Trump repeals DACA expansion (no new dreamers allowed), and hands over to Congress the issue of the current 800,000 dreamers who are currently living in our borders. That is NOT immigration reform. Not even close. And furthermore, Trump cannot make them all go away via executive decision.
Yes, Schumer wants immigration reform, but that's separate from what Trump handed over to Congress in Sept. Even if Congress gives those 800,000 dreamers a pathway to citizenship, we're still talking about DACA and not immigration reform. Immigration reform would have to be legislation that goes beyond those 800,000 individuals.
Immigration reform could happen later on, but it's a separate issue and only if Schumer is willing to shutdown the government over it. The problem there is Schumer needs donors, and whenever a shutdown is looming, it affects the stock market negatively, and his donors begin to panic. So I wouldn't hold my breath on Schumer shutting down the govt over immigration reform. But on continuing Obama's DACA expansion? Possibly. That may be the only way Trump gets his wall funding.
"So what I wrote is 100% accurate. Either repubs make a deal with Schumer (ie trade something) or do the nuclear option. Guess which route repubs took? A Schumer deal. Why? To avoid the nuclear option. It doesn't get any simpler than that. "
You are 100% correct - and you're baffling republicans with logic and facts. BTW, the Republicans have had years to find a DACA resolution, which they didn't.
Did you fucking edit your post. You originally said
"well I guess the nuclear option was used after all but a deal was made".
I'm not going to debate you further if your edit your posts to change your claims.
If this dialog is helping you learn I'm ok with that but don't fucking change your argument cause your embarrased you didn't know the difference between a nuclear option and using an executive order was.
Can you explain why Trump hasn't been able to negotiate an Art of the Deal agreement with Mexico for them to pay for the wall?
shareCan you explain why Trump hasn't been able to negotiate an Art of the Deal agreement with Mexico for them to pay for the wall?
I'm surprised you admit that about Trump.
"...flood the post with 7 or 8 consipiracy theories or all or nothing arguments and other logical lunacy."
Huh? I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Logical lunacies?
No, I didn't edit my post, at least not for that reason, and when I do edit them it's usually for grammar and before any replies are made. However, I'm noticing some of my posts are disappearing. I'm not sure how effective the report system is here, but I know Snags got fed up with me a couple days ago and claimed to have blocked me. If any posts are vanishing via report, it's probably him, but I really have no idea.
As a safety measure, when correcting someone's mistake, always try to quote the exact mistake they made. It seems rather clear that when you quoted "Because they'd like to avoid using the nuclear option to keep the government open" that was the item you had a problem with, and so I defended that specific statement.
Ok, so no nuclear option was needed, but I think this only funds the government until early February.
Originally, Schumer offered a deal to Trump last Friday and Trump accepted it. But then Trump listened to a mere staffer and turned against it because Trump doesn't know what he's doing even in the actual negotiation process.
So instead of potential funding for a wall later on in exchange for DACA (and no shutdown), which Trump originally accepted, it is now a potential to keep DACA later on in exchange for keeping the government open... and no funding for a wall.
Not sure how that spells a Trump win, but I'm sure he'll try to spin it that way.
So instead of potential funding for a wall later on in exchange for DACA (and no shutdown), which Trump originally accepted, it is now a potential to keep DACA later on in exchange for keeping the government open... and no funding for a wall.
Not sure how that spells a Trump win, but I'm sure he'll try to spin it that way.
Right, this is no tramp win. He didn't get what ever the hell he wanted concerning the wall, but the Democrats got CHIP funded for six years! Poor American children need CHIP.
sharebut the Democrats got CHIP funded for six years! Poor American children need CHIP.
To a dumb-ass liberal, 'negotiate' means 'give us everything we want.'
shareThis morning a moderate Republican said they would ignore Trump while both the Democrats and Republicans negotiate a budget and legislation. If Trump doesn't sign, then everyone will know he's the problem.
shareThe budget would already be passed if the Dems hadn't held out for illegal immigration. (Also known as future Democratic voters.)
shareThe budget would already be passed if Trump had left DACA alone.
shareAccording to that dumbass logic, the budget would already be passed if Obama had never implemented DACA.
shareObama wouldn't have needed to implement DACA if the Republicans had passed the Dream Act Bill. The Republicans are all talk and do nothing. Someone needed to take charge.
Same with national health care. Years of yakking from the Republicans. More do nothing.
They have the senate, congress and presidency, but still no DACA nor National Health Insurance. They should rename their party, Do Nothing. At least it would be descriptive.
"Obama wouldn't have needed to implement DACA if the Republicans had passed the Dream Act Bill"
The Republicans weren't elected to pass the Dream Act Bill.
So basically, your argument is, "It's your fault for not giving us what we want."
Pathetic.
"Same with national health care."
Republicans aren't in favor of socialized health care. Once again, you think it's our job to enact your policies. Doesn't work that way.
"They have the senate, congress and presidency, but still no DACA nor National Health Insurance. They should rename their party, Do Nothing. At least it would be descriptive."
How hard is this to understand? The American people gave the Republicans the congress and presidency because they ran against those issues.
That would be like me demanding that Obama and his first two years Democrat Congress build the wall. I'd have to be an idiot to expect them to do that.
Which describes you to a T.
Then why did Trump say he would repeal and replace Obamacare?
Then why are Republicans on TV saying they want to pass DACA?
I agree with you that Republican people were against Obamacare. Then they found out it was the Affordable Care Act which they like and wanted to keep. They're not too bright.
The American people voted for Clinton by over 3 million. Unfortunately, dopey people in certain parts of the country have their 1 vote multiplied because of an outdated proslavery voting system.
"Then why did Trump say he would repeal and replace Obamacare?"
Because he's against it, moron.
"Then why are Republicans on TV saying they want to pass DACA?"
They're negotiating. But chain migration won't be part of it, which is the real reason Democrats support it.
"Then they found out it was the Affordable Care Act which they like and wanted to keep."
It survived by one vote. Maybe when McCain kicks off they'll try it again.
"The American people voted for Clinton by over 3 million."
Still making this stupid claim.
Take a Civics class. You obviously failed it the first time.
It wasn't the goal to win the popular vote, so neither candidate attempted to win it. The goal was the electoral vote, so they tailored their campaigns accordingly.
Only fucking morons claim the popular vote means anything.
"Only f**king morons claim the popular vote means anything."
Trump complained about our voting system being stupid since the loser becomes president. Did you just call him a moron?
"Still making this stupid claim."
It's actually a fact.
"Because he's against it,"
You don't know what replace means so let me explain it to you. Replace means Trump's FOR having national health insurance. If he wasn't, then it would be "repeal" - not "repeal and replace".
"Take a Civics class. You obviously failed it the first time."
You're the one who wants your fellow Americans NOT to have health care nor the right to vote. And you hate immigration. And you're disrespectful re: a war hero who served his country, Sen. McCain. It sounds like you're the one who failed Civics Class.
"It's actually a fact."
Actually, it's a stupid claim that the fact is meaningful. Try to keep up.
"You don't know what replace means so let me explain it to you. Replace means Trump's FOR having national health insurance. If he wasn't, then it would be "repeal" - not "repeal and replace"."
Nope. You need to learn how to read with comprehension. 'Replace' means replace it with something that isn't socialized health insurance.
"You're the one who wants your fellow Americans NOT to have health care"
I want everyone to have health care. I just don't want to pay for their health care.
"nor the right to vote."
Huh? When did I claim that?
"And you hate immigration."
No, I hate illegal immigration. You fucktards can't seem to grasp the difference between the two.
"And you're disrespectful re: a war hero who served his country, Sen. McCain."
So because McCain is a war hero (which he is) he can't be criticized? And remember it was the Democrats who went after him personally when he had the audacity to run against Obama. Like you assholes do with every Republican candidate.
"It sounds like you're the one who failed Civics Class."
Nope, that would still be you, numbnuts.
"it's a stupid claim that the fact is meaningful."
Hillary won by over 3 million votes and that's a fact no matter how much you'd like to play a game of semantics.
"'Replace' means replace it with something that isn't socialized health insurance. "
Replacing it with nothing is not replace. Even that moron Trump criticized the Republicans for not having a plan to replace. How do you complain for years about wanting to replace, and then when you have a chance, you have no plan? Complete idiots!
BTW you're clueless about socialized medicine. Every westernized country has it except this one. Meanwhile, the American life expectancy is going down. France has the best national health insurance in the world and pays less per individual than we do. Since we're paying more for it, we might as well get something for it.
"No, I hate illegal immigration."
Unless you're a Native American, Inuit, or Hawaiian then you descend from illegal immigrants yourself, hypocrite. How many people are coming to the U.S. because our government helped to destabilize their countries, anyway?
"So because McCain is a war hero (which he is) he can't be criticized?"
Your comment:
"It survived by one vote. Maybe when McCain kicks off they'll try it again."
It sounds like you're hoping he dies. Real class act, you are. At least he has some ethics and a backbone which is more than most Republican senators have now.
RE: civics class. You're still the one who doesn't want to help Americans most in need. You'd give money to a billionaire as a tax break, but not help a working class child in need of chemo.