https://nypost.com/2020/06/23/quarantine-is-helping-george-r-r-martin-to-finish-winds-of-winter/
shareThis guy is full of it. "I'm so busy writing" and then rattles off a list of other things he is doing instead of writing. It's the same pattern we've seen from him for the last few years.
shareLook at other authors, good and bad, who can shell out a novel every 6 months or at least a year. This guy has zero excuses.
shareI think he lost the passion for it.
sharewouldn't it be hilarious if GRRM had a manic episode which led to an epiphany that leads him to call his entire epic a waste of time? It would be the exact opposite of JRRT and how sort of flowed into his own world and has drawn hundreds of millions of fans with him, while George leaves his fans hanging and disgusted. LOL
shareEvery writer has their own processes and hangups. Maybe he is lazy. Maybe he's just slowing down as he gets on in years. Maybe he's less motivated since he's cashing cheques from HBO. Or, maybe it's that he saw what happened to the last season of that show and he's paranoid and doing revisions on top of revisions because he's afraid of driving the whole thing into the ground.
It could be pure and simple perfectionism forcing him to do this.
Who knows?
But some writers are Stephen Kings and some are George R.R. Martins. The other R.R. - Tolkien - was also famous for revising things to death. Apparently C.S. Lewis rode Tolkien a lot to just publish it already, it's great!
But look how long it took king to continue his dark tower series, just to turn it into a copypasta of his own work+lotr
shareAs others have said, he is full of it. The problem he has is he is no JRR Tolkien; using his poorly conceived of "gardener" method of writing instead of having a real outline and plan he has now written himself into a complete and utter corner. his story complexity has become such a jumbled mess it has now "personification of tangled up chistmas tree lights dipped in yogurt and acid". MaUler from Rise of Skywalker unbridled rage on Youtube
seriously, there are so many characters and plots and lore/prophesies that need to get tied into together and then concluded in the last 2 books (while not suddenly and dramatically screwing with the pacing).
He doesn't know how to get out without Deus Ex Machina devices such as the show used (and now he is paranoid because he saw how the fans reacted to that disaster). He is screwed and he knows it.
I've never thought of the situation in precisely those terms, but that's probably correct. He's probably stuck in the mire of the story and doesn't know what the hell to do to get out.
It's interesting to compare him to someone like Brandon Sanderson. Sanderson seems to have the ability to work like a machine, year after year.
Yeah, in the most simple terms he is a gardener that let his garden grow wild. You can kind of see it; he had an idea when he started of the story he wanted to tell but then he got the idea that he needed to 'fill the gap' between his originally planned book 3 and 4 (the last book which was supposed to take place about 10 years after the 3rd book) what ended up happening is he created a monstrosity that took on a life of its own and now he is totally stuck without a solid plan to finish it. And he doesn't want to rely on deus ex machina devices to fix it for him; so he is just stuck.
I would say I somewhat don't envy his position but then he did it to himself by not planning it out carefully. Relying on the "gardener" method of writing is flimsy at best. It reminds me a lot of JJ Abrams writing the 'mystery box' gimmick. The writer doesn't actually have answers in the box but they create an allusion of mystery surrounding the box. I hate this gimmick because the conclusion is NEVER satisfying.
I started the first book but didn't finish it. I can only imagine how people feel who started reading the series in 1996 and who are still waiting for it to be finished in 2020. It's crazy, especially when you consider that there hasn't been a book now for nine years. Do readers even remember what happened in the last book? I wouldn't.
I firmly believe that he will never finish the series. He's 71 and obese, and can't seem to even finish Winds of Winter, and there's supposed to be a whole other book after that one. I'd say that maybe he should consider handing off the actual writing to someone else, but I know he'd never do that. I believe he even said that he wanted his notes burned in the event of his death, so that someone else couldn't finish it out like Brandon Sanderson did with The Wheel of Time.
yeah, it is pretty much B.S. I binge read the books right before the 1st season came out. So I have about half the frustration that the fans that started in 96 have. I remember the books I think more than the show. The books after book 3 take a bit of a dive; but are still way more interesting than how season 5 through 6 played out. and also there is no way season 7 will even resemble in the slightest book 6. And I can only imagine how different book 7 will be from season 8.
But that leads to your 2nd point; he will not finish it. He MIGHT get done with Winds of Winter (hopefully this year) but he is done after that. It would take him 20 years to put together a dream of spring; and as you point out he is 71 and obese; it is actually possible he might not release Winds and it will be assembled and put out after his death. He should hand it off to a competent writer he trusted. I have not read The Wheel of Time but I have heard about what Sanderson did; such a B.S. thing to do to your fans. If you care that much about your art remaining yours don't release to the public for profit and exploitation. You put your art out there it becomes a product that people expect to be completed. If you can't finish the product you outsource it to those that can. You don't 'burn down' the factory on your way out; such a ridiculously selfish thing to do.
I don't think he's gonna burn down the factory. He'll probably outsource the next one, or at least leave everything well organized so it can be continued.
shareLike he left things to HBO to handle the show? I hope Martin doesn't do what Sanderson did; which is what I meant. I hope he has enough decency to outsource to leave it to someone he trusts with notes and direction and enough to carve out a at least passable ending. But I don't want to get my hopes up; he doesn't have the best track record. But yeah, even if we never get an end to the books it is still better then the end of the show. lol
shareMartin was NOT the showrunner.
He writes the books, end of the story. Writers barely have any control about the TV series. Sapkowski (the Witcher's writer) even said out loud that he wouldn't answer any question about the Witcher series because he didn't have control over it.
Martin gave D&D the general plotline, and it was their responsibility to make the series, not Martin's. For what I know, the books plotline and the series plotline en the last seasons diverge, which means D&D decided to say 'fuck off' to what Martin gave to them and become creative (or better said, wokreative).
Nah - there's no divergence. He did say that there are several side plotlines in the books which are not in the show, but the main plotline remains the same. So, the showrunners did follow his main plotline - though I am curious as to why they shortened the last season - I suspect there's plenty of crap that went on behind the scenes, but the main reason, I suspect, is because RR martin gave them very little aside from the main plotline and they didn't have any decent writers on the staff to fill out the rest of the bullshit, which is why the last season seemed so.... oddly paced (first 2 episodes, nothing happens - and the last 6 way too much happens without much of backstory/character motivation).
shareMy understanding is that HBO wanted to do a full final season and practically begged them to do so, but D&D remained resolute on only seven episodes. I think that, ultimately, they were just burned out. They had been so focused on GoT for so long that they had little more to give, creatively or energetically.
It's a shame because with the right wrap-up the show could've gone down in history as a masterpiece, or close to it. It would certainly have been remembered as one of the greatest shows of all time. Instead, they didn't stick the landing and it's just regarded as . . . whatever it is. A show that was great for a while but then catastrophically fucked up at the end.
That is my point though, he 'trusted' them and HBO to do it and they did an awful job based on his general outline. Martin had more involvement in the earlier seasons but got cut out more and more.
I also don't buy that Martin had a solid outline; I think he had the major events somewhat determined but with absolutely no details. But of the reason why D&D were able to diverge so unbelievably terribly was because Martin took so long to get done with The Winds of Winter. He should have been done with it by the end of Season 5. How could he and HBO not see what morons Dumb and Dumber were; they could effectively adapt Martin's books to the screen but the second they had to come up with material on there someone somewhere should have stepped in. But I think Martin negotiated really bad contracts with them and HBO so he was limited.
It seems my mention of Sanderson was misunderstood.
I said, "I believe he even said that he wanted his notes burned in the event of his death, so that someone else couldn't finish it out like Brandon Sanderson did with The Wheel of Time."
Robert Jordan authored The Wheel of Time. However, he died before finishing the series. Knowing that he was dying, he prepared a set of notes to finish out the story after his death. Then after he passed away his widow chose Brandon Sanderson to finish out the series.
GRRM, however, has said that in the event of his death he does NOT want this happen and has expressed his wishes that his notes be burned.
I had heard differently; I had heard that the author of The Wheel of Time didn't want someone else to finish his story. I didn't remember the name of the author to be honest I just remember hearing about the books and how the author died before they were finished; but now that you mention the name I do recall it. The rumor I heard at the time though was that he almost purposefully set it up so it couldn't be completed.
shareHere's what Wiki says on the subject:
Jordan was diagnosed with the terminal heart disease primary amyloidosis with cardiomyopathy in December 2005, and while he intended to finish at least A Memory of Light even if the "worse comes to worst," he made preparations in case he was not able to complete the book: "I'm getting out notes, so if the worst actually happens, someone could finish A Memory of Light and have it end the way I want it to end."
With Jordan's death on September 16, 2007, the conclusion of the series was in question. On December 7 of that year the publisher Tor Books announced that fantasy author Brandon Sanderson was to finish A Memory of Light. Sanderson, a longtime fan of the series, was chosen by Jordan's widow Harriet McDougal partly because she liked Sanderson's novels and partly because of a eulogy he had written for Jordan.
Hmm, maybe the rumors I heard at the time were just rumors. Let that be a lesson for myself; never go off of hearsay alone.
I think the big rumor at the time was the author of Wheels of Time was purposefully dragging the series out and coming up with new ways to keep the story going and that he was treating it as a 'cash cow' and never had any kind of end planned and fully intended to keep coming out with new books until he died. And that the new author that finished it basically was making up their own ending based on what came before and was trying to finish it in as few books as possible.
Considering how long the series had been going on, and how it had been described as having a rambling nature with long stretches that didn't seem to actually advance the central plot, I'm not surprised to hear that some thought Jordan might be milking the series for as much money as possible. According to Wiki it was planned as a six-book series but obviously he did not actually stop there.
It would be interesting to know exactly how extensive Jordan's notes were and how much of the plot Sanderson came up with himself. In any case, from what I understand, while some fans quibbled with some of his choices and writing, the overall reaction to Sanderson's contribution was positive and I think most fans appreciated that the story was brought to a conclusion.
yeah that may have been the feeling that lead to the rumors getting started. I was glad I never invested into it; it sounded like something that started off great but became more and more disappointing as it went on.
I had not heard there was a positive (or negative) reception to the 2nd author that came on to finish it. That is cool that Sanderson was able to carve out an ending.
I don't think it will be the same for A Song of Ice and Fire though. I have a feeling even if someone else has to finish it, it is not going to be even somewhat satisfying. Especially after the ending of the show I can't shake the feeling it was all build up but no real payoff; a la JJ Abrams style writing. Only with JJ he is such a bad writer his endless unsolvable plots (empty mystery boxes) are obvious; Martin is much more proficient at hiding how full of shit he is. At least that is how it looks to me right now. I hope I am wrong.
I've been thinking about how the COVID-19 pandemic will affect future TV shows and movies. I wish writers would put more effort into improving the story or the script.
shareWell.... it doesn't look like we'll be seeing many new films, though I suspect that studios will start releasing films they shelved years ago. Basically.... nothing is being filmed right now - unless you are in Sweden ^^
shareI bet the film industry and streaming services will thrive in the upcoming recession.
shareStreaming services yes - film industry... as long as they are unable to produce more films, or put their crap into movie theaters, is going to greatly suffer. Basically, social distancing is a death sentence for the film industry all around the world. The only countries which can benefit from this are the ones where social distancing is not and was never a thing, but even they'd have issues given that they can't put their crap in movie theaters around the world. The big studios are reluctant to release their stuff on streaming services quickly because movie theaters were always such a huge revenue maker. Perhaps that might change...
I do think it's possible to create animated films in the 'social distancing' era, but... i'm not sure that they are being made either.
More about film industry here - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/covid-19-coronavirus-tv-film-industry/
ITS ALSO HELPING HIM CONSUME HAMS.
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