Let's be honest, we all love the zombie outbreak scenario. What are your weapons of choice?
1. 12 guage Shotgun. It's a common ammo and easy to operate.
2. Wood handled hatchet. If the handle breaks, we can replace it. It's good for preparing wood for fires.
3. Slingshot- we have a lot of tacinite in the area due to railroads. It's good for small game hunting.
4. Shovel with wood handle. It's helpful to maintain distance and has a variety of uses including cooking, digging, and separation of the skull.
5. 1938 Japanese Officer Katana. It's been in the family since the end of WWII.
An AR-15 / M16 / M4 with a bayonet. It's the most popular rifle platform in the US, plus it's used by the military and police, so that helps with finding ammunition, magazines, and spare parts if you need them. With a bayonet it still works as a spear even when you're out of ammunition.
I wouldn't want a 12 gauge shotgun, though I'd obviously take one if it was all I could get my hands on. Ammunition is huge which limits the number of rounds you can carry, and limits the ammunition capacity of the gun too. Typical capacity is 4 or 5 rounds in the tubular magazine + 1 in the chamber, or 7 or 8 + 1 with extended magazine tubes. Also, their effective range is relatively short compared to typical centerfire rifles, especially if you're using buckshot instead of slugs, and especially especially if you're using birdshot.
Assuming equal shooting ability and equal ability to keep a "cool head" in life-threatening scenarios, the person with an M4 will do a lot better against "zombies" than a person with a 12-gauge shotgun.
A typical AR-15 magazine holds 30 rounds and even including the magazine, it's smaller and lighter than a box of 25 12-gauge cartridges. A fully-loaded aluminum (GI-type) 30-round AR-15 magazine weighs about 1 pound, while 25 rounds of 12-gauge cartridges weighs about 2½ pounds. For a given amount of space and weight, you can carry a lot more fully-loaded 30-round AR-15 magazines than 12-gauge cartridges. You can also rapidly fire 30 or 31 shots without reloading, while you're limited to about 9 at the most before you have to reload with a typical tubular magazine 12-gauge shotgun.
An AR-15 in its standard chambering (.223 / 5.56) has negligible recoil, while 12-gauge has a lot of recoil, so you can put more shots on target in a given amount of time (recoil inherently moves your sights off target, and it takes time to reacquire the target after each shot).
With an AR-15 you can make head-shots out to several hundred yards, which is good for maintaining distance between yourself and the threat. Good luck doing that with a 12-gauge shotgun.
In a very specific scenario a 12-gauge shotgun could be better than an AR-15, i.e., a group of 9 zombies or less that are between about 10 and 30 yards away. In that case, the spread of e.g., 00 buckshot pellets makes it easier to hit the targets, perhaps even hitting more than one target per shot if the zombies are close together. In all other scenarios, the AR-15 is better.
No thanks. After 12 years of dealing with the M9, M4, M16, M249, M240, M19, AT4, .50Cal, Bradley's, and Abrams, I wouldn't waste my time with them for a zombie situation.
You'd be better off with an Ak47. Especially if you can't clean it every day. My Remington 12 guage is good enough. I don't engage in unnecessary conflicts where 30 rou is are required.
The AR-15 is the most popular rifle platform in the US, plus it's used by the military and police, so that helps with finding ammunition, magazines, and spare parts if you need them.
That doesn't apply to the AK-47; not even close.
"Especially if you can't clean it every day."
That's a myth. There are countless AR-15s that have gone thousands of rounds without any cleaning and without any malfunctions. AR-15s also beat AK-47s in mud tests. See the ones that Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons channel) and Mike Jones (Garand Thumb channel) have done for example. That's because its action is better sealed from the elements than an AK's is, and its "direct-impingement" gas system (which isn't really a DI system, but in this context it might as well be) blows crap out of the action like an air-compressor hose, as well as through the gas vent holes in the bolt, which clears stuff away from the ejection port before the action is very far along in its cycle.
"I don't engage in unnecessary conflicts where 30 rou is are required."
In a "zombie apocalypse" scenario you can't count on having the luxury of choosing what type of conflicts you will engage in. A 12-gauge repeating shotgun is one of the most ill-suited firearms imaginable, only outdone by such things as single-shot shotguns, muzzle-loaders, and pocket pistols like a Davis or Raven .25 ACP or a North American Arms mini-revolver. That's because of its very limited ammunition capacity, very limited range, and the excessive size/weight of its ammunition.
A lever-action .357 Magnum carbine would be far better than a pump or semi-automatic shotgun for someone who doesn't trust an AR-15.
I've never read a "survivalist blog;" the topic doesn't interest me in the least. The only part of this survivalist topic of yours (a topic about surviving in a fictional Hollywood scenario no less), is guns; a topic I've been interested in since I was a kid in the early 1980s when Dad bought me my first rifle, which I still have.
"Cause this reads just like my old army buddies. Nearly word for word."
Uh huh. I'd be surprised if they knew any more about guns than you do.
In any case, since you didn't address, let alone refute, anything I said, your tacit concession is noted.
No I didn't refute you because you wouldn't care either way. That's why it's funny. I prefer to not have an AR. After years of shooting them, I find their praise to be hype. They're not bad rifles. They're just the go to of fools which is why the platform would fail in the scenario. It would be the focus of hording. You'd be better off not going for the popular choice. I have one and it's fine. But, getting ammo, maintaining it for long periods, cleaning it, fixing it in the dark, etc... no thanks. You lose. I refuse your perspective and wish you luck.
"I prefer to not have an AR. After years of shooting them, I find their praise to be hype. They're not bad rifles. They're just the go to of fools which is why the platform would fail in the scenario. It would be the focus of hording."
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. All types of guns and ammunition would be hoarded in a "zombie apocalypse" scenario, and everything else that's a necessity or useful would be hoarded too.
"You'd be better off not going for the popular choice."
Again, that makes no sense, and it's also self-contradictory, since number one on your list is:
1. 12 guage [sic] Shotgun. It's a common ammo and easy to operate.
"But, getting ammo, maintaining it for long periods, cleaning it, fixing it in the dark, etc... no thanks."
How is your Remington (870 I assume) any better for those things? It isn't; it's worse; a lot worse. An AR-15 is very modular and very easy to both field strip and detail strip. Suppose you have a broken firing pin. Replacing one in an AR-15 is as easy as falling off a log, and requires no tools. It's a much bigger procedure in a Remington 870 and requires a hammer and correct-size drift punch, and even then, the retaining pin doesn't always want to budge, and you risk breaking something else while beating on it. The same applies to pretty much any other part; the modularity of an AR-15 makes it very easy to work on, and that includes all of the parts in the fire control group and bolt carrier group. Have you ever tore into the fire control group of a Remington 870?
"You lose."
I lose what?
"I refuse your perspective and wish you luck."
You don't have any reasons that make sense. There's a reason that most law enforcement agencies have ditched the shotgun in patrol cars in favor of AR-15s, and in your fictional Hollywood "zombie" scenario, choosing a 12 gauge shotgun over an AR-15 makes even less sense.
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Actually you convinced me. I'm now going to go with a .357 revolver just to piss you off.
No, wait, let's do a .22 revolver for fun.
Zombie apocalypse aren't about the massive engagement or using equipment that is the best today. They're about long term survival. If you said the M1, I would have respected you. At least the round would do better with a headshot. But you went with the Hollywood staple. 😆 what a dolt.
I'm fine with them. I own two. I wouldn't use them in a zombie apocalypse.
People think of doing engagements with zombies which is the funniest fantasy. My shotgun is for deer and birdhunting. It's like the bug out fanatics. Why leave your home and stash to expose yourself? Smart people are patient and don't waste bullets. That's why 30 rounds are silly.
"As I said, you're too focused on the AR which is the big Hollywood gun. Talk about fantasy scenarios."
Hollywood is irrelevant. Unlike zombies, AR-15s are real, obviously, and have been on the civilian market since 1964. I already gave my reasons why it's an ideal gun for your fantasy scenario in my first reply. Again:
"It's the most popular rifle platform in the US, plus it's used by the military and police, so that helps with finding ammunition, magazines, and spare parts if you need them."
On top of that it uses relatively compact and lightweight ammunition; the platform has a relatively high level of inherent accuracy (for a military-style auto), and it's very modular. None of those things have anything to do with Hollywood whatsoever, obviously.
"Perhaps you never deployed,but trust me, your weapons system is actually used more because of contracts. Not function."
You don't know what you're talking about.
"Dude keep repeating the same info. It's hilarious."
What does it mean when an idiot laughs?
"Actually you convinced me. I'm now going to go with a .357 revolver"
A .357 Magnum revolver is the most versatile handgun you could have in an "apocalypse" type scenario. You have two very common cartridges to choose from, ranging from light .38 Special loads which are good for small game without destroying too much meat, up to heavy .357 Magnum loads which work for whitetail deer-size game and are also very effective against 2-legged varmints.
"just to piss you off."
LOL at you imagining that you could possibly "piss me off" by typing words.
"Zombie apocalypse aren't about the massive engagement or using equipment that is the best today. They're about long term survival."
First, you don't get to define what a "zombie apocalypse" is or isn't about, since you didn't invent the concept; George Romero [mainly] did. Second, something that qualifies as the best equipment and is suitable for "massive engagement" is inherently better for increasing your likelihood of "long term survival" anyway, obviously.
"If you said the M1, I would have respected you."
I'm trying to think of something more meaningless/worthless than getting "respect" from someone who demonstrably doesn't know what he's talking about.
"At least the round would do better with a headshot."
Assuming you're talking about an M1 Garand rather than an M1 Carbine, the .223/5.56 is already overkill for headshots out to several hundred yards anyway, which is as far away as you're going to be able to make headshots to begin with. And good luck finding en bloc clips for it during an apocalypse, and have fun trying to keep the ones you already have, which automatically get forcefully ejected upon firing your last round. Furthermore, .30-06 cartridges are a lot bigger and heavier than .223/5.56 (not as bad as 12-gauge though), and have drastically more recoil. And with a stock M1 Garand you can't use just any .30-06 ammunition you happen to find because, due to its fixed gas system combined with the rest of its design, the ammunition has to be loaded to certain specifications; powder has to have a certain burn rate else you risk bending your op rod. And on top of all that, you have a whopping 8-round capacity in a platform with difficult-to-find-in-an-apocalypse spare parts.
"But you went with the Hollywood staple."
Hollywood is irrelevant, Slow Doug (see above).
"what a dolt."
Comical Irony Alert, you know, coming from the clodpate who thinks a 12 gauge shotgun is a better choice in a "zombie apocalypse" than an AR-15, and who thinks an M1 Garand would be better too, and who mentioned 12 gauge ammunition being common as a benefit, and then later contradicted himself by saying, "You'd be better off not going for the popular choice."
That's a classic; like a kid who takes a pratfall and then tells everyone, "I meant to do that!"
In any case, the point of contention here is you thinking a 12-gauge shotgun would be the best firearm for a "zombie apocalypse." That's from your OP; before I ever replied, obviously, and that alone established you as an idiot, at least on the topic of guns.
Then you mentioned an M1 Garand, which would be even worse due to it needing ammunition loaded with a particular type and quantity of powder, and its reliance on en bloc clips, which would be both hard to find and hard to keep in a "zombie apocalypse" (without them you have a single-shot rifle; one prone to slam fires or tearing up your thumb if you aren't very careful when single-loading the chamber, no less). That further established your idiocy on the topic of guns.
You also made this asinine post to someone else:
"People think of doing engagements with zombies which is the funniest fantasy. My shotgun is for deer and birdhunting. It's like the bug out fanatics. Why leave your home and stash to expose yourself? Smart people are patient and don't waste bullets. That's why 30 rounds are silly."
As if you could control what sort of situations you would find yourself in during a "zombie apocalypse." The zombies would of course never attack you in groups of 30 or more, because they would know you think "30 rounds are silly" and would want to give you a sporting chance with your low-capacity scatter gun. I suppose you were just "fucking with" that other poster too, right?
It would be better for a fictional "zombie apocalypse" scenario than an AK-47 in every way (flatter trajectory, smaller and lighter ammunition, negligible recoil) except for ammunition availability. 7.62×39mm ammunition is a lot more common than 5.45×39mm.
In the US, nothing beats the AR-15 platform for ammunition, magazine, and parts availability.
Wow, that Katana must be an important piece of family history, an heirloom. I have a Nazi belt buckle from a dead German that my Grand-Uncle killed over there in Europe.
Sorry to hear it. War does really bad stuff to a guy’s head for sure. Frankly, my Grand-Uncle couldn’t behave after the war and eventually he was killed in a bar fight. He had developed a terrible temper and the drinking did him no favors.
We can protect kids now if only we just give the pervs hard labor for life. Break the creeps down, work ‘em to death, make Cool Hand Luke’s roadwork scenes seem like light Yoga by comparison.
I hope the sicko got dragged out behind his barn one dark night, he’d have deserved it.