What have Americans got against Universal Health Care
What are the cons?
shareWe already pay a ton of money in taxes (mostly to make politicians, corporations, and welfare recipients rich) and a lot of people are becoming homeless because taxes and the cost of living are so high these days. You really think paying more taxes many of us can't afford for substandard healthcare like Canada is gonna make things better? Dream on! Plus, the insurance companies and big pharma would shit bricks over the loss of money.
You also need to keep in mind, what works for little European nations doesn't always work for a country as big and as heavily populated as the US.
How much do you pay in medical insurance compared to what you'd pay in tax for universal health care.
shareHow much do YOU pay? And what country are you from anyway? What kind of job(s) do you do for a living? How much money do you have leftover in your paycheck every month after bills? How much do you have to pay for groceries and gas for your car? Are you willing to have 80% of your paycheck gone before even considering buying anything? And then when you get to the hospital for something, you discover you've gotta wait 1800 years for life-saving surgery?
If you answer any of this with "I'm an unemployed slob on welfare or living off of my parents," or "I'm rich and don't have to worry about that," or "I'm from Europe," I'm going to completely dismiss everything you have to say on this subject, so choose your answer wisely.
I'm from England and on disability benefits and never had to pay a bill for operations or any dentistry.
shareWell, then, you don't know what it's like to live in a culture that takes pride in pulling itself up by its bootstraps without help from anyone. (It's one of many reasons people got angry when LBJ started that BS "War on Poverty.") You probably don't even know what it's like, working two jobs, barely make rent, have to pay high taxes already, you never have time to yourself except to sleep, all the good doctors moved out of your state due to ridiculous laws and regulations, the hospitals are overwhelmed with lazy, able-bodied people who have never worked a day in their lives (and come from families that have lived high on the hog with welfare benefits, simply because they were illegal aliens or black and popped out fatherless kids) and collect a fat paycheck every month paid for by hard-working taxpayers that are already overwhelmed by taxes, and yet you think it's a good idea to do stuff like they do in England, a country that's never known what it was like not to have Daddy Government taking care of you. Thanks, but no thanks. We quit listening to you guys 200 years ago and we're not taking bad advice from you now.
shareAuthentic frontier gibberish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNC3OciAF3w
"I'm from England and never had to pay a bill for operations or any dentistry"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9HBTcgECQQ
"One tube lasts for years!"
LOL!!! I thought of that very spoof commercial when I saw his post too. From the best era of that show.
shareYou really think paying more taxes many of us can't afford for substandard healthcare like Canada is gonna make things better?
If you walk down any street in Canada, it's unlikely you'll find anyone who would rather have the US style system. Life expectancy in Canada is 17 and the USA is 59th.
share
Also, taxes in Canada aren't really that much higher than in the US.
shareIt's an anti-Canada thing. Americans make it sounds like we're giving 70% of our paycheques to the government.
shareBullshit. Canadians pay near 50% their income in taxes. Half of that goes to universal healthcare.
shareProve it.
Signed, million man.
It's not an opinion. Find it for yourself.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-real-cost-of-free-health-care-in-canada-report
did you read the article? none of these numbers are near 50%
Families earning an average of $38,110 annually pay $1,799 a year; those earning $49,586 annually pay $3,283 a year; those earning $61,073 pay $4,857; those earning $75,300 pay $6,521; those earning $91,097 pay $8,516; those earning $109,374 pay $10,854; those earning $131,552 pay $14,022; and those earning $166,740 pay $19,166.
That's one article that only scratches the surface. There is nothing "free" about Canadian healthcare. It's only beneficial to those who pay the least.
Did you fail math class? "those earning $166,740 pay $19,166" is 12% of their income and it goes way up from there. My health insurance is 0.3% of my income.
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most canadians realize it's not free. we pay through the income tax system like we do for education or roads. my effective income tax rate last year was around 30% that includes federal and provincial and i make a reasonably good salary.
shareI've never said my health care is free. I pay taxes. At one point in my province we paid a health care premium of $44 per month per person. If you were low income, you didn't have to pay. Now that's really incorporated into our taxes. I do not pay to see a doctor. I don't pay when I need emergency. I don't pay for MRIs, x-rays, blood work, any other diagnostic testing. I do pay for ambulances, and if I want a private room in a hospital. I don't pay to give birth. That doesn't matter how much someone makes.
I also pay $64 for supplemental government prescription coverage and other health benefits. It's not mandatory, and I only do it because I don't have health insurance through my employer. The most my copay will ever be is $25. Even for chemo which cost over $100k.
You say that that your health insurance is only .3% of your income. How much do you have to pay out of pocket? What are your co-pays? What happens when you get sick? Will you still be covered. Is that employer insurance? What happens if you lose your job?
You may be paying less now, but I'd rather pay my share and never have to worry about those questions that I just asked you.
Pay your share??? So I should just say fuck it, I don't need all that money so I don't have to worry about it? Are you retarded?
"That doesn't matter how much someone makes."
It does to the people footing a greater percentage of the bill.
I'm self employed and have a deductible. If you double my income tax to pay for your "free" healthcare, not only would the amount I pay increase tenfold but there'd be little point to doing what I do. Not to even touch the fact that illegal immigrants would hugely benefit from this, at further cost to the taxpayer. Or the fact that we're putting the fucking government in charge of the whole thing. Yeah, no thank you.
Again, taxes in Canada aren't all that more than the US. The amount that you pay for your health insurance, and then your deductible, is probably more than what my tax share is.
Do you have car insurance? Life insurance? Home insurance? I know you have health insurance as you mention the deductible. It's the same principle. Everyone pays in and then when you need it, you get money for it.
This whole idea that you are footing the bill for someone else is so strange to me.
Illegal immigrants don't get free health care here. I mean I can't go to a different province with my health card and get things for free. I'd have to pay upfront and then submit to my province to get reimbursed.
Also, what's the difference between a government being in charge of healthcare, or a corporation who only cares about the bottom line?
"This whole idea that you are footing the bill for someone else is so strange to me."
It's a fact. People at my income level are paying 20-25% higher taxes to pay for universal healthcare.
"Also, what's the difference between a government being in charge of healthcare, or a corporation who only cares about the bottom line?"
Because the gov't can't sell pussy at a profit. The government has ZERO concern for the bottom line. They don't care how much something costs and WE get to foot the bill for their ineptitude. Are all Canadians as oblivious as you are?
Ummm, how do you figure that those higher taxes are simply for healthcare? I'd like to know what you actually know about the Canadian Health Care system.
Are all Canadians as oblivious as you are?Maybe I'm oblivious, but I know more about my own health care system and it's problems than you seem to, but I'm not a dick about it. share
Because it's documented, dumbass.
shareAgain, you have not shown the documentation which states exactly what Canadians pay. Are you aware that health care is taken care of by the provinces? So someone in BC isn't paying the same as someone in Nova Scotia. Yes our taxes are higher, but it's not like health care is the only thing our taxes pay for. What you shared from the Fraiser Institute is an average.
I can google too and the average cost of health insurance in the US is $560/month for an individual. Which is $6720/year. According the data you shared with me, the average Canadian, making an average wage pays $4,894/year.
Averages make people like you comfortable with what YOU are paying.
Scroll down to page 5 of the PDF. A person making $100k is paying 38% of their income in taxes. It goes up exponentially from there.
The person making $282k is paying nearly 50% in income tax, $40k of that is healthcare. That means they have to work two months to pay for healthcare, that is predominantly going to other people. How is that fair? It ain't and that's what I'm talking about.
Well when someone makes over 100k, it's only the amount that they earn over 100k that is taxed at that percentage.
Also federal tax brackets for 2023 are
Up to $50,197 of income is taxed at 15%
Income between $50,197 and $100,392 is taxed at 20.5%
Income between $100,392 and $155,625 is taxed at 26%
Income between $155,625 and $221,708 is taxed at 29%
Above $221,708, income is taxed at 33%
So that extra would be in provincial income tax which guess what?? Varies by province.
Again, you have a problem with other people using money in a fund for everyone. What would happen to you if you are no longer working for whatever reason, can't afford your health premiums anymore and you get sick? You might end up being one of those people who isn't paying for health care who is getting the same treatment as everyone else.
Guess what? My property taxes in my province fund education, and I don't have kids. There are people who don't drive who's taxes pay for road construction. Imagine this. There are people in the US who aren't in the military, and yet they are paying a portion of the $766 billion that the government spent in 2022. Can you believe it?
You're clearly ignoring anything that contradicts your bullshit.
Yes, I'm aware of how taxes work. Which is why I say, no more. Universal healthcare only benefits those who pay the least, or not at all. You can keep it.
Our Canadian accountant has spoken! 🧑⚖️
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I'm Canadian and I sure don't pay 50% in taxes.
shareThen you're depending on those who do.
shareUmmm. okay. Proof of that? I pay taxes. A portion of my taxes go to health care. So how am I not paying my fair share? For my supplementary plan, I pay the same amount as everyone else.
See with your insurance, if you have surgery or anything that costs more than what you've paid in premiums, you're depending on others too.
Uh, your tax schedule? Those in the lower bracket pay HALF what those at the top pay.
You mean all those years I paid thousands in premiums but did not use it don't count for anything?
My health insurance is not graduated according to income, like federal taxes.
If you make $281k, your tax rate is 48.9%.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/price-of-public-health-care-insurance-2020.pdf
You mean all those years I paid thousands in premiums but did not use it don't count for anything?
Do you get that money back if you don't use it? No. So if you never use it, that money that you are spending on your premiums is paying for other people's claims.
At least when health insurance is graduated by what you earn, low income people don't have to die in the streets because they can't afford to see a doctor. share
You're not very bright, are you?
So you expect other people to work to pay for the healthcare for those who don't? Yeah, that's why I vote against it. There is no bigger asshole than the asshole who thinks he's entitled to someone else's earnings.
Again, you pay for private insurance. It's really the same thing. Everyone paying into that plan has their money pooled and when you need something which your plan covers, the money is taken out of that pool. If you don't make any claims, you don't get that money back, and guess what?? Someone else has used that money. I guess they think they are entitled to your money?
You just have a problem with people who don't make as much money as you do having access to that pool of money. I hate to break it to you, but your taxes do pay for lower income people to have access to welfare, and other social programs available in your area. My taxes just contribute to their health as well. Oh the humanity!!!
Dummy, health insurance is not graduated according to income, that is the difference. I have no problem with the way insurance works. What I have a problem with is paying 50% of my income in taxes, with half that going to healthcare, while people who make a lot less, have access to the same healthcare but pay a lot less. The Canadian tax brackets are horrible.
No shit. Which is why I want that to be less, not more.
Please see my comment above about things my taxes pay for that I don't use. It's the same thing.
I'd rather that everyone have access to health care, no matter how much money they make in hopes that it might cut down on the cost of other social services that come out of taxes. I also don't think that anyone should have to die because they can't afford medication or treatment. That is something that I am willing to pay for with my taxes. I'd rather my tax money go to that than bailing out private companies or, funding sports arenas, or abandoned buildings.
Easy to say when you're paying very little. It ain't your money we're talking about.
shareThat's funny. You have no idea how much money my household makes or how much we pay in taxes. The idea that someone might actually be okay with their tax money going to help others is so foreign to you, you just have to insult those who feel differently.
sharea six year difference. it's not even close. 82.6 years vs 76.33. the usa life expectancy is falling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
"Life expectancy in Canada is 17"
Damn! Because of the sasquatch dangers?