I say it's been "Star Wars"! From the awesome Vader to the seductive Palpatine of the prequels, to the deliciously hateful Moff Gideon on "The Mandalorian"! Even Krennic in "Rogue One" was perfect, a middle manager type who reminded everyone in the world of some boss they'd hated.
I say no other film franchise can compare! Prove me wrong!
Star Wars is okay, but the villains are too two-dimensional. I adore Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. He's so deliciously evil, and Ian McDiarmid is clearly having a blast, but too much of the extraneous stuff, esp. the EU mythology, is annoying Hate Sink twaddle, and the recent films do the same, particularly with respect to Kylo Ren (no doubt courtesy of binary-minded dullards like Rion Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy).
As much as I occasionally lay into the MCU, and regard them as inferior films overall to Star Wars (well, at least in comparison to Episodes IV-VI), I have to say, the MCU has some of the best villains, because characters like Killmonger, Helmut Zemo, Gorr the Butcher, Scarlet Witch, and even Thanos, are given genuine pathos and a degree of sympathy. They're not simply hateful strawmen or women, and on occasion one ends up sympathising more with them than one does with the ostensible 'heroes' which makes for a fascinating and challenging dynamic and cinematic experience.
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Probably Batman.
shareJames Bond probably. Not all great but they've had some excellent villains imo. Blofeld, Goldfinger, Scaramanga, Le Chiffre & Trevelyan to name some favorites.
Even some of the henchmen were great. Oddjob & Jaws were standouts.
I agree that the Bond Villains are generally fun, and have great taste in hideouts, and are really tops at hiring henchmen. Where DO they get all those random guys who are willing to live in the middle of fucknowhere and throw their lives away when one person gets into their secret base?
But not a one of them is as deliciously eeeeevil as Palpatine or Moff Gideon, or is as iconic as Darth Vader! Seriously, if they made Bond Villain plushy dog toys, would you recognize a single one of them?
Because nobody else will say it, I like the villains in the first 3 Die Hard movies. Hans Gruber is both classy but menacing. Karl is sinister and a badass. Theo is fun. Colonel Stuart is a pretty evil villain who chooses to kill a whole airplane full of people. Then there's the awesome twist that Major Grant is a villain. Also Simon is a great villain in the 3rd one and his girlfriend is also very sinister and psychopathic. Even Targo has some memorable scenes. I admit the villains in the original Star Wars trilogy are probably better though.
shareI'd say Batman. In big-screen live-action over the years we've had,
Joker (more than one version)
Penguin (more than one version)
Catwoman (more than one version)
Riddler (more than one version)
Two-Face (more than one version)
Bane (more than one version)
Poison Ivy
Mr Freeze
Scarecrow
Ra's al Ghul
Talia al Ghul
Harley Quinn
Deadshot
Killer Croc (although I don't think he actually faced Batman)
I think that's it. I'm bound to have forgotten one.
Now it's true, that some of the Batman villains are so iconic that they'd pass the Plushie Dog Toy Test; where if you made a Joker or Catwoman plushie dog toy most of the general public would recognize it! And I'm barely familiar with most of the others, I don't read comics and as far as I know they've only appeared in one or two films each, but then I haven't seen a DC TV show since the 1960s "Batman" was being rerun during after-school hours. (Okay, that and "Teen Titans Go", which is hilariously goofy.)
But the DC villains aren't *fun* to hate! IMHO the best Star Wars villains are so good I perk up when they come on screen, because something awesome or entertaining is going to happen now that they're here! And that's the whole problem with Batman, there's nothing fun about it, I mean in recent decades the whole franchise seems to be writing for the sort of people who don't like fun. (Well, except for "Teen Titans Go!".)
I guess it comes down to how you like your Batman. I like mine daaark and griiiim. That's fun for me!
That said, I may own a Plushy Batman...
Also, gotta say, I think Joker is one of the most popularly 'fun to hate' villains out there!
Oh yes, the whole question is about subjective opinions, there's never going to be a solid answer but it's fun to discuss. And I'm aware that today's Batman fans likes their movies on the dark and grim side, with psychopathic villains and miserable crazy heroes and absolutely no humor, and I'm fine with that in general as long as I don't have to watch too much of that. Or I would be, if the DC fans who don't like fun wouldn't come over to the Marvel boards and complain about the humor and enjoyability.
But I disagree about the Joker being "fun to hate", unless he's being played by an actor who brings an bit of relish to the role. Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger made him enjoyable to watch, but the hands of less skilled actors (Leto) he's just sick and creepy, a pure psychopath, and pure psychopaths aren't any fun... except maybe to other psychopaths.
And BTW I don't own any plushy movie characters, but I *may* own a cheap plastic anduril, which I *may* wave around when I do "proud warrior" yoga...
Well yes, it certainly comes down to the actor's performance, no doubt (as with any character, of course). As far as Joker goes, Leto is the only one who didn't do it for me. Romero (I watched Adam West's Batman first time around as a very young child), Nicholson, Ledger, Phoenix, all great, IMO. And of course Mark Hamill's DCAU version is god-tier!
shareI don't think I've ever heard anyone praise Romer's Joker before!
Not that I'm part of the Batman fandom or anything, but I remember the show from childhood reruns. And I thought Romero was fun but unimpressive, and I've never heard anyone else praise his performance. Nice to know one person appreciates what he did, I guess.
Really? He's actually the actor that first comes to my mind when I think of Joker. First impressions, I guess. Like Alan Napier is who I always picture when I think of Alfred (actually, he's still my favourite Alfred).
shareThere's nothing fun about hate.
Also, if you justify your hate, someone else is thus entitled to justify *their* hate, and where does it all end?
Far better to say 'NO' to all forms of hate, unequivocally.
Marvel
sharePeople have complained about the weakness of Marvel villains in the past. Some of them have been as weak as FRANCIS from "Deadpool", the only really great ones have been Killmonger and the deliciously enjoyable Loki.
I thought that Thanos was one of the best written villains ever. Although he was obviously insane, his premise actually made sense.
The fact that he completely believed that want he was doing was correct made him more than just a Saturday matinee villain.
I thought that both Thanos and Ultron were... not played as well as they could have been. Ultron just wasn't great, Thanos was rather better, but... He looks pretty iconic, and dominated the screen, but somehow his screen portrayal fell a little short of "they'll be making Thanos dog toys in 50 years" awesomeness.
Yes, his motivations and plans were awesomely simple and terrifying, but my subjective opinion is that he's a damn good villain... but not one of the best of all time.
Perhaps the comic book collecting side of me is geeking out.
Thanos was literally in love with Death and so when he was brought to the big screen, I guess I went all fanboy on him, lol.
Understandable for any comics fan, they've got decades of layers to add to any Marvel or DC screen portrayal, which I can't comment on because I've barely touched comics. So all I can comment on is what I see on the screen, so...
Do YOU think that Thanos was as fabulous as he could have been? What does a real comic geek think of that screen portrayal?
Phew! Ok! Good question.
The fact that he was a powerhouse was conveyed well.
His motives were outlined exceptionally well.
There were some elements that were missing (ie everything he did was to impress his mistress; Death).
Overall, I think they did a splendid job.
All of the following are opinions that are my own. Thanos has no great moment. His one liners are too short and generic and his silences are those of a fool who does not remove any doubt.
Your instinct in not rating him that high is correct. Endgame was the last movie I gave 10 stars to on IMDB, but Thanos did not do anything for me. He was a boring villain.
Villains like Thanos ARE rooted in Saturday cartoon traditions. Way back in the 70s there was this cartoon which popularised the trope of the well meaning but insane villain (the baddie was trying to eliminate all the gold in the world to make crime disappear. Sounds familiar?). Or a villain with good intentions but poor methods.
It saddens me that people keep overrating these pinata like characters. But they got to watch something from their times, so they're not to be blamed.
Thanks for creating this great topic! I almost missed it.
Bond has the most well written villains of all time. They are not recognisable to the public, they are far from iconic, but they are written in a way that saved the movies from 70s silliness of style and content. Brosnan and Craig arrived at a time when they got better actors in the role of villains, but inferior scripts. My favorite Bond villain is Max Zorin (C. Walken).
Star Wars has an unforgettable Vader. But he had only one great movie to his name. Those who say Vader is 2 dimensional don't know what 3 dimensional means. They probably think a 3 dimensional villain should have any combination of having an unrequited love in childhood, been bullied at school, have a 'cool flashback', colourful lines that have shock value for teenagers, and so on. No villain in the last 20 years in Hollywood has had such a menacing but still family friendly line as “I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.”
For me Hans Gruber is my favourite villain of all time. But I'm not a fan of any franchise. Irons could have had a great role and hold his own reasonably so against Rickman, but it was not to be.
For me personally, any permutation of Batman villains is not as good as even Kurtwood Smith, whose unfeeling cruelty as Boddicker places him in my top 10 villains of all time.
You know, those who say that Vader is two-dimensional may something like a point, if they're referring to the fact that in the OT we don't see anything of Vader's thought process or motivations. Most villains will monologue away about their plans and motivations, but Vader just looms or attacks! We don't even find out anything about his plans until the climax of the second film, when he tells Luke who'll rule the galaxy together!
Which IMHO totally works, it makes him far cooler and less explicable than your average monologuing human villain. Of course some people might think his mysteriousness equates to a lack of depth, but what do they know. Being ultra-cool, scary, and mysterious is WAY more effective than monologuing!
That is a fair point, but many cinephiles seem to share it because they have only so many movies in a franchise with continuity!
Even in a nuanced and lengthy series like Star Trek TNG, a powerful being like Q spills the beans early, which i'm afraid to say adds to his complexity.
I watch anime, big surprise. In One Piece, the villain called Crocodile hides his motives for several episodes, and he is my favourite villain of all time. He appears powerful, has an extremely well chosen Japanese voice actor, or seiyuu, stays hidden figuratively, and attacks people, which is all part of his plan for the long term.
When a cool looking character appears in a mainstream movie, most of the audience registers that. But in One Piece, when a cool looking character appears, we fans immediately think " this is one to watch for".
It is all about expectations and what we are used to culturally and artistically. Saying Vader is 2 dimensional is like saying the Mona Lisa is too. Sometimes the more complex villains are those towards whom we have far more questions than answers.