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Why have documentaries become so much more popular in recent years?


Have you ever stopped to think about how much more prominent documentaries have become in the last 25 years?

I remember pre-2000 documentaries just weren't a big thing at all. Few people would seek them out, they very rarely became part of the pop cultural conversation, and they were widely thought of as just boring educational entertainment.

Now documentaries are everywhere and OFTEN break out into popular culture. They are today just a regular part of the film/TV landscape.

I think this is one of the few ways that things have gotten BETTER in terms of the state of film and the film industry as time has gone on. But I have to ask: What is it that precipitated this change?

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I love documentaries and you're spot-on with your observations.

My speculation is that they effectively blend information with entertainment, which is also the essence of good, non-fiction writing. An apt analogy would be, "combining business with pleasure". And quite often, they're exposes, which provide the viewer with a sense of empowerment, having uncovered the truth about something. That's my take on it anyway, after pondering it for a few moments.

Good discussion topic, btw. This should generate some once it gains a momentum.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

That's an interesting idea of "blending business with pleasure." I suppose earlier documentaries didn't have the same reputation.

To be clear, there are a few standouts, like The Thin Blue Line. But obviously the art form has gained a significant amount of popularity in the 21st century, especially the last 15 years or so.

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Free Solo (2018) is a standout for me.

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As an afterthought, here's another one: https://moviechat.org/tt0428441/The-Cutting-Edge-The-Magic-of-Movie-Editing

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Free Solo was quite good. I think that I actually saw The Cutting Edge several years ago, but if I did I remember nothing about it.

A few I would recommend:

The King of Kong - A very fun expedition into the world of competitive retro gaming.

Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room - An excellent look at the Enron scandal and the film that really put Alex Gibney on the map.

My Kid Could Paint That - An interesting exploration of an art mystery as well as the validity, or lack thereof, of modern art.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster - A balanced look at the use of steroids, both in and out of competitive sports, as well how the subject has touched one American family.

Bobby Fischer Against the World - An overview of the chess prodigy Bobby Fischer with particular attention paid to his assault on the Russians in the 1970s.

I would also recommend anything by Ken Burns.

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Thanks. The bottom three are especially interesting to me. I thoroughly enjoyed this one during the winter, should you happen to be unaware of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tq1C8spV_g

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My Kid Could Paint that is probably the most obscure of all the ones I mentioned, but I found it fascinating. If you do watch it, bear in mind that it was shot on MiniDV and the image quality isn't great, but the story and structure of the film are really very interesting.

AlphaGo looks like something I'd get into it. I'll have to check it out.

I have to say, I hate that computers are now beating our top players in games like chess and go. There's something Orwellian about it.

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I'll definitely keep those additional comments in mind. I was actually very much into art when I was younger. If you also have an interest in art, I highly recommend this short YouTube doc about a prodigy whose work is truly stunning :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm9BGxpf0hU

In reference to your final comment, that concern was definitely expressed in the doc via much angst, raw emotion, and the narration. Maybe you noticed the hints of that in the trailer.

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Ken Burns' "Civil War" for PBS was a PHENOMENON. 1990?

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I love Ken's work and have watched several of his films. No doubt his work has been extremely well-received throughout his career.

But how many docs can you name, pre-2000, that made a huge splash?

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Mutual Of Omaha's Wild Kingdom is the oldest one I can remember

It was a nature series about wild animals and a big hit with kids

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I remember that one. With Marlin Perkins.

There were also the National Geographic specials that would occasionally air on TV.

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Yeah, We loved those too

The gazelle always got away from the lioness and even as a little kid you called bullshit on
that...even kids are aware that life ends badly for every living thing, no matter how pretty

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Ken Burns is currently working on a documentary about Muhammad Ali. I'm looking forward to this one.

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I have enjoyed everything I've seen from Ken and I've watched hours and hours of his work.

I especially liked Prohibition, The Roosevelts, Country Music and The Dust Bowl.

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more footage to work with

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What documentaries "break out into popular culture"? I liked "The Lost Pirate Kingdom" and "The Winter King." I don't think these are what you're thinking of.

The only thing that comes to mind is "Helter Skelter"

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As much as I despise him, there's no doubt that some of Michael Moore's work has made a big cultural splash. I remember when Fahrenheit 9/11 came out it seemed like everyone had seen it and was talking about it.

Making a Murderer was certainly huge. Millions of people watched it, talked about it, debated it and further investigated. People even started harassing the prosecutor.

Before Making a Murderer, the Paradise Lost series was a big deal and did a lot to ignite interest in the West Memphis 3 case and to cause doubt about their guilt.

Blackfish was a good one that a lot of people saw and it was almost single-handedly responsible for huge changes being made at Sea World.

And as someone else mentioned earlier, all the way back in 1990, Ken Burns' The Civil War was a phenomenon.

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OK I get it.

I like Michael Moore's films. I liked Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth. Because they were created to stroke me. I would not call them documentaries. Their advocacy pieces. They don't even feign to present the entire story of their subject matter.

People like being stroked.

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I see this is already being discussed further down...

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Although they're still largely fiction, people like to think they're getting the real story behind something. And it's more compelling, rather than boring, when it's crafted like any other dramatic piece. When I was in school, they were taught as though they were fictional pieces, and they were hot (and still hot) b/c they were easier to make and gain traction than an original piece.

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You may be thinking of docudramas, where a historical event is dramatized and sometimes liberties are taken with the facts. A true documentary uses archival footage and interviews with people directly connected to the event.

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I'm not confusing them. Documentaries take liberties and craft a narrative. Archival footage and interviews do not eliminate that, more often they're used for taking those liberties. It's extremely rare to find a true, fly-on-the-wall, unbiased, objective account. I suggest to anyone to check out the Hollywood Reporter Roundtables with documentarians. Not only is this approach not hidden, it's defended as a different form of storytelling where pieces of reality are manipulated and conjoined with fiction. The goal isn't to "document" something. It's to tell a compelling story with a POV baked in from the start -- if staging, or leaving out facts, intentional misleading, creative editing, etc., is needed to achieve that goal, so be it.

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You're 100% right that documentaries are often not truly honest filmmaking. I think that's a shame. It should not be that way. Even if you're taking a particular viewpoint, I think it's possible to tell a story in a way that presents each side fairly.

Documentarians really should think of themselves as journalists and should adhere to the rules of journalism (something the few actual journalists seem to do these days, sadly).

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What is honest journalism in the first place? History, as a whole, is written by the victor, which means that there are biases in what you are taught in school vs what others are taught. In fact, to understand history you need also to understand the cultural differences without the judgment of one culture being more civilized than the other. The desire to label people as either good or evil rather overrides the whole neutral point of view, don't you think? To understand the information, you need to understand the bias of the person giving the information.

Now to compress all this information down into something that the layman can understand or appreciate, that's a herculean task.

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I'd say honest journalism is to do the best you can to tell the story in a complete and truthful light. Once you're no longer doing your best to accomplish this and are intentionally engaging in spin and manipulation then you're no longer engaging in honest journalism.

If someone else were to start from scratch and investigate the same story, they should not find that you have clearly and intentionally painted a slanted picture.

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What I was trying to establish is that there is no "complete and truthful light." In the end, people want something short and to the point, usually something that confirms their own biases.

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I think that regardless of what hurdles that may exist, when a person sits down to record an event, write a history, chronicle a blow-by-blow account and so on, they can either sit down and intentionally try to set their own biases aside and be as fair, objective and complete in their telling as possible, or they can intentionally engage in slanted propaganda.

I actually used to write for a magazine so I know that this a choice the journalist makes. Journalists SHOULD choose the latter. Today though it seems like far too many are happily engaging in the former and have just become political pundits.

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Interesting. While we've had some others here who claim to have done professional writing, in your case it really shows. And you're exactly right with the argument you're laying down here.

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Oh, well thank you! I appreciate that.

I started off by taking some journalism courses at a community college and writing for the school paper. Then I began doing some freelance writing, mostly for a sports publication that no longer exists. Sadly, once the magazine folded that was pretty much also the end of my professional writing career, unless, that is, I find a way to resurrect it.

One thing I haven't been able to help but notice is this: In journalism school, you are taught all the "right" ways to do things. I'm referring here to things like striving to be objective, to be fair, to tell all sides of the story, to verify a story by having at least two independent sources, to not rely on "anonymous sources" unless absolutely necessary, and to have the courage to tell the truth even when the truth may not be popular. However, in the real world, especially today, the journalists who actually care about this "right way" seem to be few and far between. Corporate interests, pressures from the political sector, and personal ideology all too often end up shaping coverage.

I don't think the "right way" of doing journalism is completely dead. There are still passionate, courageous, professional journalists out there who are striving to engage in news reporting as a noble profession (Glenn Greenwald comes to mind). But if it's not dead, it's on life support. It's always been known that you can't believe everything you read in the paper, but the last five years have shown us that the media really will lie right to your face while knowing they're doing it and they won't feel the least bit bad about it.

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I always appreciate and admire posters that are lucid and articulate in their comments. I have a worn copy of William Zinsser's On Writing Well in my collection of reference books.

I've done some writing. For awhile, I had a successful, published author as a personal instructor.

Once again, I agree with you, about the media and how journalism has deteriorated. I get my news from a variety of sources and always do a lot of comparing and watching for inconsistencies. Yeah, they've become so brazen with their bias, spin, trying to convey personal opinions as truth or facts, it's like they're not even trying to hide it anymore.

One point I'd like to make and where I slightly disagree with you is on slant. It can be positive as well as negative. I originally learned it meant bringing a fresh perspective to a topic that has already received a fair amount of coverage.

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Somehow Zinsser's book has escaped my attention but it sounds interesting. I think I will order it. Thanks for the mention.

I definitely think it's important to get news from a variety of sources. And more and more, independent journalists are taking the place of established corporate media as the best places to go for information. We have to make a point to follow people who still believe in journalistic ethics and who make the pursuit of truth their top priority.

Regarding "slant," I think we may be using the term in different ways. It sounds like you may be using it to mean telling a well-worn story in a fresh way, shining a light on it from a different angle, if you will. I am using it to refer to intentionally biased and dishonest reporting.

Think of a house. If a house's foundation is level and even, then the house is secure and will stand. However, if the foundation is slanted then the house is fundamentally unstable. A slanted story, in the way I am using the term, is the same: It is a fundamentally unstable story, missing important facts and mischaracterizing others, and therefore providing a distorted view of reality. The unfortunate thing is that most readers (or viewers in the case of television news) will never realize that they are being deceived.

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Intuitively, I think you will like Zinsser's book. Your writing aligns with what he prescribes, which is why I spotted you as the real deal to begin with.

As for "slant", we're also on the same page there. I understood your use of it and you correctly interpreted mine. Maybe it's just habit on my part because I usually use, "distorted spin", when referring to your perception of it. It's the same thing, just worded a bit differently. But then also maybe, you've got an edge on me there as well, because as Zinsser advocates, if you can find a way to say the same thing with fewer words, that's the route to take. ;)

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Wanted you to know I went ahead and ordered On Writing Well. It should be here tomorrow.

Our conversation actually has inspired me to try to do a little more with my writing. Since the collapse of the magazine, I really have done very little on the writing front beyond discuss/argue with people online. You've caused me to think that maybe I have the ability to do a little more than that, and should.

I wish you luck on your own writing efforts as well.

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Excellent! This makes me feel good, knowing that I inadvertently helped to inspire someone out of a rut, just by commenting on a shared passion. I'd be very interested in any insights you might want to share while reading the book.

I didn't want to say anything previously, but I know there are countless opportunities online for someone with your expertise.

Your excitement has inspired me as well. While the writing bug is still with me, I've also been blocked, frustrated, apathetic. It's a tormented state of being for someone who loves words and how they're used. Who knows? There's always the example of Grandma Moses. ;)

Keep me posted. :)

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I'll let you know what I come up with from the book.

Regarding online opportunities, there are some opportunities for "writers" but there aren't a lot of good opportunities outside of hack work. As a rule, online pays a lot less than print does (or at least used to), and most serious outlets that pay well mostly use staff writers.

What I would really like to do is write a book (non-fiction). I just like the idea of researching a topic deeply and then pouring that into a book that is the culmination of all the hard work. I can't tell you how many times I've read a good book and admired both the wordcraft and research ability that went into it. If I had the ability to live ten lives I'm sure for one of them I'd choose to be a historian.

I'd also like to write a screenplay.

It sounds like you may need to figure out what it is you want to write about and just get to it. Maybe you should start a blog or perhaps you should embark on some bigger, grander project.

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Re: your last paragraph:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfVunEjeQPQ ;)

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I totally agree and was going to comment on the same thing. Even "true" documentaries are still made with an agenda. I remember in one of Michael Moore's films, might have been Bowling, and one interview there was a clock behind someone being interviewed that jumped around. So that conversation was totally edited to tell the story that Moore wanted to tell. There are plenty of examples of things like that. It's just like the internet where you can find someone or something to back up your opinion. It doesn't mean it's the truth or reality.

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Yes, his docs are prime examples -- but even those that don't focus on highly charged, political topics, do the same. Herzog admits to breaking every rule in his docs to make them more compelling and to align with his trademark style. Others, that have interviews with famous people, are sometimes only granted access to those people if certain questions are never asked, and that they're cast in a certain light. Others, that have hours of interview footage, clip certain lines, and intersperse with them other things to change their meaning and context. Morris and the Maysles bros used plenty of tricks as well -- and Flaherty, going all the way back to Nanook of The North in 22, did the same. Compelling entertainment has always been the real goal. "Reality" shows are the bastard children of this approach.

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Exactly!

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Might I point out that no interview is going to be uncut, and cutting parts out of an interview isn't all about bias... but the simple fact that an interview often lasts for hours when the movie you're trying to make out of that is less than two hours. I would go so far as to claim that you'd likely not want to watch the full uncut interview even if you could. It'd be interesting to find out if you were biased against the documentary which is why you assumed the information cut out didn't suit your perspective. For all we know, the guy could have started rambling about fart jokes in the time cut out.

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I totally understand that no interview is going to be uncut. But when the clock has big jumps in time back and forth it makes me wonder. I don't think I am biased against the documentary, I might be, but I don't think so. I didn't say that it didn't suit my perspective. It actually did fit right in with what I believe. But that doesn't mean that I'm not going to still question it.

Even if it was just edited for time, interviews are still edited to fit a narrative. With documentaries it's not even just interviews. It's information. Have you ever watched a Loose Change documentary? In my opinion those are pretty loony conspiracy driven crap, but they are still presented in a way that makes it very believable.

Look at how news is edited and presented. You can have different networks covering the same information in totally different ways. Documentaries are the same thing. You can watch a nature show and have David Attenborough narrating from the point of view of the prey, and so while you are watching you might feel more inclined to root for the springbok or whatever to get away. Same clip, but the narration is in regards to the lion pride who hasn't eaten in a while and you might be more inclined to want the springbok to die. It's the exact same video, but just a different perspective. That's what documentaries are to me.

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I understand the point, which is why people need to understand their own biases and the biases of the person presenting the information before watch / reading these things. As I said elsewhere, people like confirming their own biases which makes the news and documentaries something more likely to be tailored to a particular audience.

I merely wished to point out that there are numerous valid reasons for cutting an interview short, seeing large jumps of time isn't enough reason to suspect you'd have gotten a different story if the full interview was untouched.

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The point I was making about the time is that it was jumping during the answer. Not just from one question to another.

It was like if I quoted you this way.

I understand the point. It'd be interesting to find out if you were biased against the documentary. People need to understand their own biases and the biases of the person presenting the information before watch / reading these things. No interview is going to be uncut, and cutting parts out of an interview isn't all about bias, I merely wished to point out that seeing large jumps of time isn't enough reason to suspect the guy could have started rambling about fart jokes in the time cut out.



Now I really didn't have a lot of content to really alter what you are saying, but it's easy to alter what someone has said enough to change their intent.

As for everything else, I think we agree.

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There's plenty of that, of course, but sometimes you wish you could've heard the line(s) just before and/or after the juicy one that made the cut. Context is important, and you don't always get it.

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Isn't that what you're doing here, trying to create the impression that you're providing the 'real' story behind something, hypocrite? "Largely fiction" is so hyperbolic. Why don't you say what you really mean, that you see them as a mixture of truth and lies, a tactic that you've tried to apply but have not been very successful with?

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If you bothered to read all the rest that I wrote, you'd know that I did say that. And these things are a matter of record -- and even admitted by many who create them -- which I also said, and mentioned a source for interested people to check out.

But speaking of saying what one really means, I'll translate your reply:

"I'm still stewing over this ..

https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/60e6455b82e23b690f0df3fe/The-best-romantic-comedy-of-all-time?reply=60e6534282e23b690f0df4fc

...where I couldn't answer a thing, so I dodged it all to the level of absurdity. So now I'm desperate to start up a different argument with you, where I'll pretend to find something in nothing, but I'll deny all this and the fact that I'm asking loaded questions that are dripping with venom for the person I'm asking -- just like I did last time."

Yes, that's the real story behind you. But no special knowledge or research needed, b/c it's so obvious, since you're so transparent.

I wonder how many more times you'll reply to my posts, as you wonder whether you've made my ignore list as a well-deserved first entry?

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Gotcha, Freud! You're so in my head, and can read me so perfectly. You're a bonafide MovieChat profiler. But mentioning the Ignore list this early in the game is also so indicative of a weak spine.

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Don't forget that people like to confirm their internal biases, and a documentary that validates something they want to be true is more likely to be watched than something that simply gives all the information known about something and allows the audience to make that decision.

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I think some are deftly disguised as the latter to seem more credible.

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there are, in the world, events/phenomena/nature that are as compelling as anything that could be invented.

the tools available to generate content on what has happened, or what is going on has exploded.

folks are more amenable to what can be shown as reality, or a presumably close rendering of it, than the manipulations or agenda of a story-teller.

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Netflix has some great serial killer series and a pretty good Mafia one...

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I liked their recent 4-part doc on the Challenger disaster. That was well-done.

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i think there might be some basic technology and market reasons for this.

it's just a lot easier for people with a base level of competency to film a professional looking doc now. people are making professional looking features shot on iphones. & i think for people who want to go up a step from that, pretty solid looking digital cameras are fairly accessible. so you have more opportunities for people to produce professional looking things on a minimal budget.

& the streaming world provides lots and lots of opportunities for things that might have made a little splash on the festival circuit and then disappeared in the 80s or 90s to find an audience, even if it's only a niche audience.

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Good thoughts. I'm sure you're correct.

The digital revolution undoubtedly has a lot to do with the documentary explosion. Once films didn't have to be shot on actual film it made filmmaking in general so much more accessible. I'd say this really started with MiniDV, the first format that consumers had easy access that could produce results that looked more or less professional.

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