The truth about nirvana - General Discussion Discussion

[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

Nirvana just got lucky, right song and attitude at the right time. Bands like Sonic Youth, who started in 1981 and released their debut album in 1983, had a lot more to do with it among many others.

On a side note I find it interesting that Dave Grohl after Nirvana went onto make some very FM friendly mainstream rock music.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Sonic fucking youth. Yes sir.

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[–] AndyKing1967 (39241) 4 years ago

L7 probably didn't get the recognition that they deserved. They were around before Nirvana too.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Accepted, although not a fan. I'll raise you cowboy junkies and 7 year bitch.

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 4 years ago

L7 - one more thing
top tune

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[–] AndyKing1967 (39241) 4 years ago

Yes!

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

I'm not sure who credits Nirvana for their musical influence. They were the most popular Grunge band by far, but that's it. Grunge was probably the last mainstream style in rock. After that, rock became niche. It's hard to believe that Nirvana had such influence when they were part of the last breath in rock. The same applies to other late 80s/early 90s rock bands.

To influence later rock bands, there must be later rock bands.

The question is not whether Nirvana was influential (it wasn't), but whether it could have been influential if rock had continued.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Grunge wasn't a thing in the time frame I'm talking about.
Rock did continue, but it was influenced by money and horseshit like nirvana.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Grunge was extremely popular in early 90s. Late 80s, the big thing was G&R.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Sweetie, I know what was popular. What we were listening to wasn't called grunge at the time.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Well, I remember that after they released Nevermind, the band was everywhere. For 2-3 years, they were the rock top band, like G&R or Oasis. But they were the last top American rock band. There was none after them, except UK's Oasis.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Yes. They were quite popular. Like oasis.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Alice in chains and soundgarden were considered metal at one time.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 4 years ago

Those were the two bands contemporary with Nirvana I came in here to list as a million times better than Nirvana. I worked at Music + at the time so I saw it all and heard it all. I hated Nirvana. Still love Soundgarden and AiC to this day.

People considered them to be Grunge. Whatever. Grunge didn't really mean anything and the category lacked qualifiers. They just wanted to create a way to say "not a hair metal band"

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Dude yes!! Exactly what I was trying to say. So many amazing bands were coming out at that time but all you hear about is grunge. I hated chain wallets.
Is music + a record/cd store? Did you get to see many live bands at the time?

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 4 years ago

Hell yes. those two might be the only ones labeled grunge that I liked. Was not a fan of Pearl Jam etc. I guess I can't totally dismiss labels. I like "Doom Metal" and assorted subclasses of thrash/punk/metal. Some of those have similarities that beg classification. Nirvana and their following always mystified me as did the term "grunge."

Music Plus was, indeed, a record & video rental store. I remember making the poster art display up on the wall for Nevermind thinking what a trip the cover was ... and then we played our promo copy.

I'm a class of 87 metal head. The bulk of my concerts were heavy metal. Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Ratt, Scorpions, Metallica, Ozzy, Anthrax, Queensryche, Megadeth, Rush, Y&T, etc (and some esoteric bands like Leatherwolf, Frehley's Comet, Raven, Odin, and Savatage). Great memories. Too many to chronicle.

Around the era we speak of, my concert going had slowed but I did manage to see Tool, Alice in Chains, and NoFX.

About when I got tired of going to concerts, I started working as a stagehand and got paid to work at them. Got to see some stuff I wouldn't have otherwise but grateful anyhow. Like April Wine, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Adam Ant, Los Lobos, and many others.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Gotcha. I was just getting started in those days. My first shows were megadeth, slayer, anthrax, testament, suicidal tendencies, megadeth some more. I went to a Judas priest show once for the opening band, I think maybe faith no more. Don't know if you remember the clash of the titans tour but that was the first time I saw alice in chains.
The after metal days were pretty amazing for shows. Got to see quite a few great bands before teen spirit hit. Shows were my thing, and the crowd changed drastically after nirvana went mainstream unfortunately. Still good times though.
Very cool you saw nofx, as well as some of the classics. I always wanted to see steely Dan but never did. The stones and beach boys, that's like seeing history.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 4 years ago

I wish I would have seen Slayer, Testament, and ST! My concert bros were less into the hard stuff than I. Very cool that you went to Clash of the Titans. Wish I had. I love Faith No More but they really sucked opening for Metallica. They were sloppy drunk and got boo'ed off stage. Caught Priest twice and they were perfect.

I know what you mean by mainstream crowds. Before I eased off the attendance I noticed a shift. Can't speak for a broad perspective though, since I wouldn't see much of the crowd up close when I'm operating a spotlight.

You still go to concerts? Who? I haven't been to one in over a decade but I might if Meshuggah played near me.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Too funny. Meshuggah is one of my boyfriends favorite bands. He seen them 8×s, said they're great live.
I went to the Metallica show to see faith no more open. They were good though.
ST is one of my favorites. Seen them a few times.
Nowadays I'd take a festival over a show, but the last show I went to was tool last year. They sounded amazing but damn concerts are so expensive now.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 4 years ago

My wife is all old school metal/rock and blues. Would never go see Shuggah with me so i'm 01% likely to see them. Nice to hear they are good live (considering the complex rhythms). I hope to someday catch them as they are my favorite band of the last 10 years or so. They changed the way I listen to music.

ST must have been outrageous! Ever see (or hear) Infectious Grooves? A blip in the history of ST.

Tool is one of the best live for sure. Easily in my top 5 for best sound live. So many bands sound like shit live. At the start of the show Maynard stood there painted all blue, perfectly still, staring at the audience with a loud hum playing for easily 5 minutes ... just staring. Crowd going insane with anticipation and confusion.

Coachella Fest is near me and I have never gone. Partly because of the absurd cost but mostly because I don't give much of a shit for the bands (also weary of standing around in the heat which is part of why I burnt out on concerts)

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

We were laughing about infectious grooves last night. That's a blip i try to forget. I saw ST after their prime in a small club, absolutely amazing. Some dickbag tried to heckle Mike Muir and he was in the crowd in seconds handling it. Who the fuck talks shit to Mike muir?!
Yeah no bonaroo or Coachella for me. I like the hippie fests in the middle of nowhere.

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

You had the mainstream pop punk bands Green Day and The Offspring, later on Good Charlotte etc. Then you had the more traditional sounding rock bands Nickleback, 3 Doors Down kind of what we would class as "Pub rock" down here.

I think what happened with Grunge is the same as what happened to glam metal. It got silly and commercialized, you started getting bands like Creed and others that were just riding the wave rather than really being into the sound.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

All that shit was after nirvana. Offspring at one time was considered punk, but I never understood why.

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

A lot of the "Grunge" bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden to me were more metal. Even Pearl Jam hinged on hard rock their guitar player was in those sorts of bands in the 80's.

Offspring were more of a rock sound to me as were Blink 182 etc but someone figured "Punk" would sell more records as rock wasn't a very cool word anymore.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Yes.They were labeled metal before they were labeled grunge. Pearl jam we'll leave for another day.
Blink 182 belongs nowhere in this conversation.

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[–] chilone (18067) 4 years ago

I detest them, as well as Greenday. I LOVE Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots but with every album they each did, I liked them less although AIC's later stuff was okay but never as good as Facelift and Dirt.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Yep, we were talking about alice in chains last night and I said the exact same. They kind of came into their sound in dirt, but I think I love the rawness of facelift best.
I had a crush on a boy in highschool, until he got a green day tattoo. Nope.

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[–] chilone (18067) 4 years ago

Offspring has definite punk influence, as Dexter (and probably Noodles) is a huge punk fan. Definitely not punk, per se.

A lot of the "popular" Offspring is rather kitschy but they have some really great stuff.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6187) 4 years ago

I see what you are saying, there are other influential bands during that time, but I lived through it!I was in college at the time...the video 'smells like teen spirit' really had an incredible effect on Gen X and pop culture The song perfectly encapsulated (or influenced?) our generations cynicism toward life.I personally didn't like the band, but they trended in the grundge movement.

More than just a influential band, they had a transforming effect on pop culture. People started wearing different clothes and adopting Cobain's cynical view.

Cobain's suicide, depressed after a mediocre second album, cemented the bands brief but incredible few years in Rock and Roll history.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

You're talking about pop culture. I'm talking about music.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6187) 4 years ago

Yes..what Nirvana's band DID do, which I think you are underestimating, is the "Smells like Teen Spirit" video essentially killed the Guns and Roses sound.

By effectively slaying that titan of rock, Nirvana kicked open the door for the public to hear new 'alternative' sounds.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Maybe you missed the part of my post where I said, nirvana deserves credit for bringing "alternative" music to mainstream.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6187) 4 years ago

You forgot the word all😉

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Come correct.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6187) 4 years ago

History is full of what-ifs, even musical history.

Say the band never existed.

The door to the alternative universe would be semi blocked by Slash's goofy hat for years. Eventually that band would fall to a new sound, but who would bring it?

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

Bands like Ramones are the real influence. The basic garage rock sound, guitar, drums, amp, singer. Quick, simple songs. A lot of bands owe a debt to Ramones.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

I honestly don't think we owe much to the Ramones. I'm a huge fan of punk rock, but the Ramones don't make it on my playlists.

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

At the time of Ramones rock was complex and almost out of fashion. Ramones brought back that simple straight ahead sound of the 50's. I do believe that without Ramones bands like Nirvana would be very different as they also had that very simple sound. A lot of the grunge era bands were influenced by them.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Were the Ramones the nirvana of their time?
Which "grunge bands" were influenced by nirvana or the Ramones for that matter?

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

In one way or another all of them in my opinion. Grunge was mostly about that simple sound except for Sonic Youth who experimented a lot more. https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/the-curse-of-the-ramones-165741/

A lot of the Grunge bands pushed to get Ramones on tours with them because they were influenced or fans of them too. I don't think Ramones ever had the fan level that Nirvana had, it's like Metallica they eclipsed the bands that inspired them.

When I say "influence" I am not necessarily thinking about bands that flat out copy their sound more their attitude and ethos.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Grunge was about spending $40 on flannels that we got for next to nothing in church basements and thrift stores.
Is it safe to say, the Ramones are the nirvana of punk?
Metallica is the nirvana of metal, and nirvana was the nirvana of grunge?

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

Punk is an odd genre anyway, in England you had the Sex Pistols who were created by a guy who wanted to advertise his clothing store. So hardly the rebellious thing it is made up to be! Ramones were more down to Earth though.

I think once a sub culture/genre becomes popular it loses it. Look at Metallica once the heaviest thing out there and ended up a lot lighter.

Grunge is another one, the sheep get onto it and end up spending big money on pre-ripped jeans (WTF?) and flannel shirts etc.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

I love me some punk rock.
Not a Metallica fan, but yeah, their old stuff is obviously way better. I hate when once good bands lose their roots because of money/popularity.
Yeah, grunge fucked up my lifestyle a little. All the unknown shops we'd get our cheap gear at suddenly became "vintage" and ridiculously expensive. Grunge was always more of a fashion thing, at least where I lived. Dickheads from school started showing up at my shows, not knowing how to act right. Our downtown hangout that was nothing but hippies, gays, punk rockers, the undesirables of the time, became a tourist trap for assholes. I think nirvana crashed my party a little🤨

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

Went through the same in the 80's with hard rock and metal. Idiots at school wearing Megadeth T shirts because they liked the look but they listened to pop music.

I agree about outsiders coming to shows. They have no idea about the culture behind the music, the ethos etc. They don't feel the music the way the real fans of it do and they fuck it up.

I used to go to a Goth club sometimes and the bouncer at the door would allow all the freaks in and stop the idiots in suits who wanted to get in. Quite funny given the usual set up.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

I was once invited to a slumber party with some new friends, and to my horror it was a new kids on the block slumber party. Pillows, posters, just stupidness. I put on my Walkman and listened to megadeth the entire time.
My biggest complaint about the shows being crashed were the pits. I was a little scrapper and could hold my own in a pit. Mosh pits had sacred unwritten rules, and all of a sudden you got Billy Bob jockboy all roided up, thinking he's there to kick ass, touch boobs, and act like the neanderthal he is. Billy Bob was ruining a beautiful dance.
Yeah, I'm not for any of that kind of exclusion, but that is a refreshing change from the norm.

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[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

I remember when New Kids came out, oh my god what crap.

Yeah the pits aren't supposed to be as dangerous as they look, meat heads think it is musical football.

I think exclusion can be good at times. The idiots in suits liked the goth chicks who were walking into the club and thought they could pick up. They would have seen it as a freak show all the time forgetting they were the odd ones out.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

I know. Some guys are just sexist pigs.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

The Ramones owe a lot to the early hard rock/heavy metal bands of the early 1970's, namely Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. Without them, they certainly wouldn't exist in the form that they did.
Johnny Ramone had gone on record saying his style of guitar playing was influenced by LZ's song, "Communication Breakdown."

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[–] Stratego (30822) 4 years ago

I think the most succesful grunge band in history has probably influenced more people musically than more obscure bands.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

I appreciate your input, but what bands did they influence do you think?

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[–] Stratego (30822) 4 years ago

I'm not exactly a music expert, but throughout the years there have been quite a lot of artists who have said they were influenced by Nirvana. Here's one list:

https://www.gigwise.com/photos/89895/

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Oh dear. That's what I was afraid of.

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[–] Stratego (30822) 4 years ago

Hey, I can't help it that so many folks are inspired by Nirvana.🤷‍♀️

Anyway, they certainly appear to be one of the most influential bands of the 90s.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

No argument there, but look what they're responsible for influencing.

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[–] Stratego (30822) 4 years ago

Ah well, I'm not really into the grunge/punk scene, so I don't think everything in that list is that bad.

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[–] BillySlater (4256) 4 years ago

Arcade Fire, Interpol and Muse are all great bands imo. There are way more bands than just those they seem to use for name value. Silverchair are a great Aussie band that were heavily influenced by Nirvana. Your whole post seems rather elitist fwiw.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Yeah, I admit I can be a snob when it comes to music. Silverchair is way better than nirvana in my opinion. Arcade fire, interpol eh, but muse is a band I put on my list to check out after reading stratego's list of nirvana influenced bands.

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 4 years ago

" Alternative was just a different way of describing pop music."

no it isnt! , the two terms mean virtually the opposite of each other!

If your 'Alternative' bands became popular , then they were no longer 'alternative' even if they were playing the same stuff, its just that the content definition of pop changed.

None of that ever happened hear in the UK , Rock/alt /grunge never became mainstream,
The radio stations just played a constant stream of pop shit , and i mean shit , like "take that" and nsync or whatever ..
it never changed until cheap digital radio and pretend radio ion internet streams

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Yes I agree. For example, the radio station where I lived was power 107whatever and became 107x overnight. The content of the pop changed, but it was still for the most part pop. If you play Jane's addiction, but the only song you play is Been Caught Stealing, you're still just pop radio adjusting to the times. It was just an alternative to Bobby brown or warrant or whatever.
I don't know what happened in the UK. I have questions like, is that queen really still alive, and is a crumpet really just an English muffin? "Alternative" introduced a different sound to the masses, but it was still just pop.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather listen to under the bridge or been caught stealing over n'sync all day, but those are still just pop songs that barely touched the intensity of the musical revolution that was happening at the time, and had been happening before nirvana was stinking up the place with teen spirit.

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Hey, didn't you guys have some good bands happening at that time too? The only bands I could think of were jesus and Mary chain, blur, and I still listen to the charlatans and the happy mondays sometimes. Did those bands get radio play there? I was curious.

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 4 years ago

well Manchester got relabelled 'Madchester' in the early 90s , with the invention acid house music and everyone on E which brought forth
The Stone Roses
The Charlatans
Happy Mondays
Then there was the "britpop" thing headed by Oasis and Blur
All those guys got some airplay , managed to drown out the boy bands for a short while , before Simon Cowell came along and fucked it all up again
There was a few years of actual real bands with guitars on the air actually because the craze for festivals kicked off, so there was
The Killers
Kasabian
Arctic Monkeys
zutons

I was wearing a pantera t-shirt back then , but nothing like that was ever on the radio!
..actually , theres was "The headbangers Ball" on mtv , for those who had the newfangled satellite tv thing :)

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

Damn Simon Cowell and his fuckery! I saw the soup dragons and Thousand yard stare, corny but fun show. I saw ned's atomic dustbin also, really good show and surprisingly rough.
Yeah, you couldn't get away from oasis here.
Pantera is a band I never saw live and always regretted not seeing.

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 4 years ago

heres a little 30 second ditty by "The Ataris" that sums up their feelings about the radio.
and mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw7iYYVfPJY

I still like it even though it advocates "blowing England off the map" , i think because of Oasis :)

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 4 years ago

Dont you think bands like Led Zeppilin , The Doors, Pink Floyd
did all that fifty years ago?

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[–] froggyandtoady (328) 4 years ago

I wasn't alive then, but I think we're still talking about, and listening to, led zeppelin, the doors and pink floyd because they're musically worthy.
I don't think in 50 years nirvana will be considered at all.